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#Post#: 514--------------------------------------------------
EXACTLY how to start doing level five
DIR By: TromFan
Date: June 29, 2019, 10:39 pm
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I have posted this in several areas of the forum, but I am also
going to put it here where it is most relevant, as this ONE part
of Dennis' writings makes it most clear what to do when you get
to level five.
The very last chapter of the book TROM a Games Manual you can
download from Tromhelp.com ..
I am copying and pasting here for your convenience.
How to Run Level 5A
"[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate
failure cycle chart in front of you]
"I will go through the chart as if I'm the subject and I'm
running Level 5. I'm starting at Level 1a and the goal-package
I'm using is the basic “To Be Known” goal package. Before I
start as given in the manual I'd timebreak all the day's
activities and also I would make sure the Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4
have been run to no more change. I wouldn't, of course, attempt
Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more
change and also I've timebroken the day's activities.
"Ok, here goes. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little
bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you
use, you can use the space of the present time universe around
you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It
doesn't matter. You are not limited in any form whatsoever. You
just need some space in which to work. It doesn't have to be
present time physical universe space. It can be past physical
universe time space.
"So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put
up the Other's postulate "Must be Known". The postulate is "Must
be Known" and that is in the class of not-self.
Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people
find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created
mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical
universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you
put it.
"The important thing is that it is a "Must be Known" postulate
and it's in the class of not-self.
That is important. You must be certain that it's in the class of
other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of
not-self.
So you put up that postulate "Must be Known" in the class of
not-self.
You then create the postulate "Must Know" in the class of self.
If you go over to column 7 on the chart you see that the level
here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know
something. You've bought not-self's pan determined postulate of
"Must Know". Get that?
Doesn't matter what you are forced to know, you don't have to
specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would
put up "Must be Known" over that way in the class of not-self
and then get yourself here with the postulate "Must Know".
"Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself
right here where you are, right where you are with the "Must
Know" postulate.
Postulate Failure Chart
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get
me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you
are - with the "Must know" postulate.
Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any
sensations that show up. Your whole situation is a cameo, as a
scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out anything that
happens. Anything that shows up, you time break it. Time break
it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back
up again.
"You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the
past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them,
timebreak them out of existence and put the postulates back up
again.
And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up
at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite
happily put up the postulate "Must be Known" in the class of
not-self over that way while you're sitting here with "Must
Know". And you got the idea that you're being “Forced to Know.”
That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quietened
down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get
bored with that level.
You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move
on. So we now move from 1A to level 1B.
"Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "Must
Know" to "Mustn't Know". You're still at receipt point, but
you're changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't
Know".
The postulate "Must be known" is still out there in the class of
not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We
now have an opposition situation. We have "Must be Known" in the
class of not-self and "Mustn't Know" in the class of self and
they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation.
So you have your "Mustn't Know" and your opposing not-self's
"Must be Known" with your pan determined postulate "Mustn't be
Know". Trying to get not-self to change his postulate from "Must
be Known to "Mustn't be Known" but he's in the stronger position
forcing his pan determined postulate of "Must Know" right up
against your "Mustn't be Known".
So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and
timebreak out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up
there.
"And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've
timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation
there where you have "Must be known" over there in the class of
not-self and "Mustn't know" in the class of self and you can
hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quieted
down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored
with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to
2A.
"Now this involves a definite change, you're going from receipt
now to origin. That is a big change that happens there between
1B and 2A.
When we go from 1B to 2A you start off by feeling yourself at
Origin point. You start off by saying, well, I'm in "Mustn't
know" pushing "Mustn't be Known" across to the other person, to
the "Must be Known" there.
In other words, instead of him being the originator and you
being at the receipt at level 2A you're the originator "Mustn't
know" and you driving your pan determined "Mustn't be Known"
against his "Must be Known" Self Determined postulate.
In other words, you're begining to get at him. So you're
beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "Mustn't
know" and him still holding his postulate of "Must be known",
but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the
receipt point of your PD postulate "Mustn't be known".
"But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the
necessary timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean
everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the
whole Level 2A. Then you would go to Level 2B where now you are
going to actually overwhelm the opponent.
You still stay in your "Mustn't know" postulate, you're
originating your PD "Mustn't be known" postulate at level 2B and
now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the
sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "Must be Known"
into "Mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your PD postulate. So
he's driven from the "Must be known" he held at level 2A. He
now goes into "Mustn't be know" at the receipt point there.
"So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we.
We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the
complementary postulates at level 1A with "Must be known" and
"Must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've
gone back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the
postulates have changed.
We are now at 2B. At 2B we have "Mustn't Know" - "Mustn't be
known" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But
now you are at the origin point and the "Mustn't be Known" is at
the receipt point.
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're
dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're
dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's
postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up
sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up
people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations.
You're simply mocking up postulates.
What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole
level of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working
with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything
else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work
with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very
strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working
with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when you get
into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't
dream of working with anything else but postulates because you
get the fastest results working with postulates and you always
work with just postulates. You simply timebreak out everything
else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or
whatever shows up. You simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once you
grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work then
on level 5 and realize what you're doing."
#Post#: 530--------------------------------------------------
Re: EXACTLY how to start doing level five
DIR By: guest62
Date: September 29, 2019, 5:32 pm
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you start L5 at L2 or L1 if you want.
When I did L2 , i graduated naturally to L3 and from 3 , same
deal . I couldn't help but to graduate to L4 and from 4 I went
to L5
You must use the levels . Doing them correctly with bring you
higher and higher up to L5. There is no level 6. Its all free
space above level 5 . The completion of L5 is the start of true
reality .
L5 is = to SCIENTOLOGY OT8
It doesn't end at level 5 nor at OT8
In fact they are just the beginning of a personal journey. A
journey that leads to "there " as Dennis puts it . Dennis said
he's never met a L5 completion . He didn't hang around long
enough to know me .
I started using the levels in 1997 . I bought two copies of trom
from Flemming and got straight to work on it straight away .
The leves took me in a direction I had no idea I would be going
to.
When you complete L5 there will be absolutely no doubts or
reservations . I feel more confident today than when I first
completed the level .
Dennis said you'd be getting a glimpse of Nirvana before
completing L5 or something to that effect. But even When I first
completed trom , I knew I was there and never going back .
You can't go back you know so make sure you want to go all the
way first .
You'll know things that may be very painful to know as well as
knowing things that are very pleasurable to know . You won't
have a choice in the matter. It's gonna sting some days and
other days .... Pure Nirvana.
You'll know the creator very very well . Dennis doesn't mention
the creator nor any of his cognitions.
LOL cognitions will be the norm. You don't stop after L 5 . In
fact they just get bigger and better as you take a look around ,
after completing L 5.
We are not alone after L5 but you'll still want to take others
with you nonetheless.
You can certainly be alone if you choose.
I won't be able to answer all questions because some of us just
aren't there yet to fully understand. Too much information can
do harm and hinder , too little will also be of little use.
It's always depends or the 2 parties who are trying to
communicate no matter what level you've completed .
I can only tell you where it's taken me and I'm not open to
generalised questions.
I will say there is only one place to go and that place is
oneness with all life and all things in life and the creator
himself ( no gender )
Happy to help and not interested in any kind of overwhelms. Just
keep the questions specific . Or no questions at all is just as
good too .
I'll try to use the games manual as a reference.
The sky is much much higher than we think but it does have a
ceiling. WE can go beyond the ceiling of L5. This is where you
will find our creator and the true meaning of life and oneness.
My goal is to take as many with me to talk about all the
interesting things along the way as I can before I go . Not just
someone. But don't be disappointed if I refer you back to the
games manual . I never would have made it to " there "
without it and I doubt you will either .
Good luck .
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