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#Post#: 469--------------------------------------------------
Please message me if you need help
DIR By: TromFan
Date: June 12, 2019, 12:00 am
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Whether you are an Ex-Scientologist or a total TROM newbie, if
you are having trouble understanding any of the theory or
practice of TROM, please message me.
I have been Scientology auditor trained, am a former course
supervisor and Church of Scientology staff trained. I have read
the TROM materials to death and am currently running level five
on myself.
I am also currently working on more ways to make the TROM
materials understandable for the masses.
The TROM materials can be overwhelming at first, they were even
for me not just because of the way they are currently compiled,
but also I had to get past my own reservations about practicing
something other than Scientology.
I want to help, and I want to get a feel individual to
individual of some of the questions and difficulties others are
having.
Best,
TromFan
#Post#: 474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please message me if you need help
DIR By: Colleen
Date: June 12, 2019, 8:11 am
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Hello, TromFan and welcome to the forum. I appreciate your
skill level with Scientology and with Trom. Yes, I do see that
TROM, being too simple for complicated and distractable minds,
could use a good undercut.
For example, one of the best undercuts that was presented to me
in Scientology was the Purif and the "Clear Body, Clear Mind"
book, expounding the values of de-toxing the body before
entering a course of mind clearing. This was also an ancient
practice before starting a course or mission.
Also, I can see if a Scientologist is doing a deeper Conditions
by Dynamics and is in awareness level of "confusion" on the
first dynamic - mind, body and possessions - to grasp the
fundamental simplicity of trom and its practices helps one take
a stand and be able to sort out dire confusion re their own
mind.
#Post#: 476--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please message me if you need help
DIR By: TromFan
Date: June 12, 2019, 10:52 am
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"I do see that TROM, being too simple for complicated and
distractable minds, could use a good undercut. "
That's not really it. If you look at the glossary for the
currently published works, there are 10 words defined. One of
them, "anaten" doesn't even appear in the first book TROM a
Games Manual. If you look at the glossary on this forum, there
are way way more terms, all of them appearing in just that one
work defined. The Postulate Failure Chart is introduced way too
soon. It's a ton of significance to absorb at once.
Anyone familiar with the study tech can plainly see that the
current presentation of the TROM materials hits the student with
a ton of misunderstood words, lack of mass and too steep a
gradient. It has nothing to do with whether or not the person
has a complicated and/or distractable mind.
#Post#: 478--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please message me if you need help
DIR By: Colleen
Date: June 12, 2019, 12:09 pm
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What you say indicates to me because in the Church I kept
wanting to doze off while reading Dianetics until I finally got
through the Div 6 Dianetics course and was allowed then to audit
a few people. What an awesome experience
I'm currently handling a nervous system and endocrine system
condition with de-toxing protocols, and assigned a confusion
condition to this mind/body/critters complex. As soon as that
gets resolved and the mental fog gone I will re-visit trom with
greater and sustainable resolve, and clear up any conceptual
mis-understandings.
I do however get a kick out of doing RI every day. In the
meantime I take to heart Dennis' advice to get to know this body
intimately and work towards being more complementary with its
basic biochemistry and anatomy and social urges.
BTW, have you done any clay demos re TROM? Would you recommend
any clay demos?
#Post#: 482--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please message me if you need help
DIR By: TromFan
Date: June 12, 2019, 1:52 pm
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I have not done any clay demos. I guess the demo was my doing
the levels, so to speak.
But I made sure to look up every word, and also read and re-read
until I found the right gradient to enter at, then once I
grasped it the rest made sense.
For example, I did not understand how level five runs until I
read that transcript of Dennis showing the first four commands
step by step. Oddly, that is at the very end of the currently
Amazon-published work. I believe it should have been sooner in
the text. But it's in TROM for Non-Scientologists. I believe
that is the entry gradient for level five.
#Post#: 491--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please message me if you need help
DIR By: mjh
Date: June 12, 2019, 3:23 pm
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--- Quote from: TromFan link ---
>
> I did not understand how level five runs until I read that
transcript of Dennis showing the first four commands step by
step.
>
--- End Quote ---
TromFan can you direct my attention to this section in the
original materials please?
#Post#: 492--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please message me if you need help
DIR By: TromFan
Date: June 12, 2019, 9:50 pm
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The very last chapter of the book TROM a Games Manual you can
download from Tromhelp.com ..
I am copying and pasting here for your convenience.
How to Run Level 5A
"[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate
failure cycle chart in front of you]
"I will go through the chart as if I'm the subject and I'm
running Level 5. I'm starting at Level 1a and the goal-package
I'm using is the basic “To Be Known” goal package. Before I
start as given in the manual I'd timebreak all the day's
activities and also I would make sure the Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4
have been run to no more change. I wouldn't, of course, attempt
Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more
change and also I've timebroken the day's activities.
"Ok, here goes. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little
bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you
use, you can use the space of the present time universe around
you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It
doesn't matter. You are not limited in any form whatsoever. You
just need some space in which to work. It doesn't have to be
present time physical universe space. It can be past physical
universe time space.
"So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put
up the Other's postulate "Must be Known". The postulate is "Must
be Known" and that is in the class of not-self.
Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people
find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created
mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical
universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you
put it.
"The important thing is that it is a "Must be Known" postulate
and it's in the class of not-self.
That is important. You must be certain that it's in the class of
other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of
not-self.
So you put up that postulate "Must be Known" in the class of
not-self.
You then create the postulate "Must Know" in the class of self.
If you go over to column 7 on the chart you see that the level
here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know
something. You've bought not-self's pan determined postulate of
"Must Know". Get that?
Doesn't matter what you are forced to know, you don't have to
specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would
put up "Must be Known" over that way in the class of not-self
and then get yourself here with the postulate "Must Know".
"Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself
right here where you are, right where you are with the "Must
Know" postulate.
Postulate Failure Chart
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get
me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you
are - with the "Must know" postulate.
Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any
sensations that show up. Your whole situation is a cameo, as a
scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out anything that
happens. Anything that shows up, you time break it. Time break
it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back
up again.
"You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the
past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them,
timebreak them out of existence and put the postulates back up
again.
And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up
at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite
happily put up the postulate "Must be Known" in the class of
not-self over that way while you're sitting here with "Must
Know". And you got the idea that you're being “Forced to Know.”
That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quietened
down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get
bored with that level.
You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move
on. So we now move from 1A to level 1B.
"Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "Must
Know" to "Mustn't Know". You're still at receipt point, but
you're changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't
Know".
The postulate "Must be known" is still out there in the class of
not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We
now have an opposition situation. We have "Must be Known" in the
class of not-self and "Mustn't Know" in the class of self and
they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation.
So you have your "Mustn't Know" and your opposing not-self's
"Must be Known" with your pan determined postulate "Mustn't be
Know". Trying to get not-self to change his postulate from "Must
be Known to "Mustn't be Known" but he's in the stronger position
forcing his pan determined postulate of "Must Know" right up
against your "Mustn't be Known".
So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and
timebreak out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up
there.
"And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've
timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation
there where you have "Must be known" over there in the class of
not-self and "Mustn't know" in the class of self and you can
hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quieted
down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored
with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to
2A.
"Now this involves a definite change, you're going from receipt
now to origin. That is a big change that happens there between
1B and 2A.
When we go from 1B to 2A you start off by feeling yourself at
Origin point. You start off by saying, well, I'm in "Mustn't
know" pushing "Mustn't be Known" across to the other person, to
the "Must be Known" there.
In other words, instead of him being the originator and you
being at the receipt at level 2A you're the originator "Mustn't
know" and you driving your pan determined "Mustn't be Known"
against his "Must be Known" Self Determined postulate.
In other words, you're begining to get at him. So you're
beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "Mustn't
know" and him still holding his postulate of "Must be known",
but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the
receipt point of your PD postulate "Mustn't be known".
"But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the
necessary timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean
everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the
whole Level 2A. Then you would go to Level 2B where now you are
going to actually overwhelm the opponent.
You still stay in your "Mustn't know" postulate, you're
originating your PD "Mustn't be known" postulate at level 2B and
now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the
sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "Must be Known"
into "Mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your PD postulate. So
he's driven from the "Must be known" he held at level 2A. He
now goes into "Mustn't be know" at the receipt point there.
"So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we.
We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the
complementary postulates at level 1A with "Must be known" and
"Must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've
gone back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the
postulates have changed.
We are now at 2B. At 2B we have "Mustn't Know" - "Mustn't be
known" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But
now you are at the origin point and the "Mustn't be Known" is at
the receipt point.
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're
dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're
dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's
postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up
sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up
people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations.
You're simply mocking up postulates.
What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole
level of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working
with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything
else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work
with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very
strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working
with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when you get
into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't
dream of working with anything else but postulates because you
get the fastest results working with postulates and you always
work with just postulates. You simply timebreak out everything
else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or
whatever shows up. You simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once you
grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work then
on level 5 and realize what you're doing."
#Post#: 927--------------------------------------------------
Re: Please message me if you need help
DIR By: Colleen
Date: February 6, 2022, 3:33 am
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--- Quote from: TromFan link ---
>
> "I do see that TROM, being too simple for complicated and
distractable minds, could use a good undercut. "
>
> That's not really it. If you look at the glossary for the
currently published works, there are 10 words defined. One of
them, "anaten" doesn't even appear in the first book TROM a
Games Manual. If you look at the glossary on this forum, there
are way way more terms, all of them appearing in just that one
work defined. The Postulate Failure Chart is introduced way too
soon. It's a ton of significance to absorb at once.
>
> Anyone familiar with the study tech can plainly see that the
current presentation of the TROM materials hits the student with
a ton of misunderstood words, lack of mass and too steep a
gradient. It has nothing to do with whether or not the person
has a complicated and/or distractable mind.
>
--- End Quote ---
That's unfortunate. From the get-go I had no problem seeing
where and how Dennis was going. His simple logic did not get
lost in conceptual misunderstandings. My session that timebroke
a large portion of my first entry into this universe and that
"wall" of "to know" postulated matrix was huge case change for
me. In addition I became aware of multiple millions of years of
Scientology track - Earth is not the first rodeo.
I knew Dennis in a non-corporeal existence, and as Lao Tszu,
compiler of the Tao Te Ching, but he really gave me a nice
surprise with his fun "not game" approach to becoming the best
gamer one has ever been able to be - or not games... the little
thetan leaps for joy.
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