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#Post#: 1560--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Gregory Date: February 23, 2023, 2:51 pm
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[quote author=Val link=topic=54.msg1552#msg1552 date=1677169849]
Afternoon Gregory.
What JW's believe or not is not important to me as I am not a
follower of their doctrine, if Jehovah's Witnesses believe that
I'll be destroyed along with the rest of the unbelieving 8
billion then that is their problem not mine, I am not now nor
have I ever been a preacher for them, its just that it irks me
when people accept without research untruths/half-truths or
what ever about them, I'd be the same about the Catholic Church
which is why Leslie and I have some ongoing banter.
[/quote]
Fair enough, Val. Let's just leave it there.
#Post#: 1561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Val Date: February 23, 2023, 3:26 pm
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I'm happy enough to finish the JW topic if you are, but would
love to see your biblical proof for the three person God, as I
said earlier this is not stated anywhere in the scriptures
#Post#: 1573--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Gregory Date: February 24, 2023, 3:06 am
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I provided you with a Wikipedia article link about the Trinity,
Val (again below.) It is a reliably factual article, unlike many
Wikipedia articles. Reading it should answer your query to at
least a fairly brief extent. If not, you can always google "Is
the Trinity biblical?" which brings up a lot of links. Much of
the doctrine is inferred from biblical texts, especially the
gospel of John where Jesus refers to himself as "I am" ("Ego
eimi" in the original Greek), the literal translation of the
Hebrew name for God, the so-called Tetragammaton, usually
rendered with vowels in English as Yahweh (but not the erroneous
'Jehovah'.) Much theology is inferred from the bible, including
many of the teachings of the JW's. It depends what authority you
ascribe to them. Even if the doctrine were proved erroneous,
millions upon millions of people over 2000 years have accepted
Jesus Christ as their saviour, devout followers of Christ whom
the JW society just dismisses as non-Christians, themselves
being apparently the only true Christians.
A little favour, in fact. Tell your wife, or any JW you know,
that one member of this forum is a Catholic (Leslie), another
(Steve) is an Anglican and a third (myself) a Methodist. We try
to be good with other people, help them when we can, support
causes which help the poor and others, etc. Then ask the person
whether we are Christians or not. I suspect the answer will be
negative (If it's positive, it would contradict the teachings of
the JW society.)
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
I don't really want to pursue the discussion much beyond this
point, Val. There are so many issues and differences that it
could be endless, and we're clearly never going to agree on most
of them. Actually, I feel sorry for the ordinary JW's (though
not their leaders) as their date-setting for the end has now
stopped after so many failed predictions and that was really
their main attraction, if that's the right word. Now, they can
either go mainstream, like the Adventists, or stay out on a limb
with fewer and fewer converts.
Incidentally, I access the Watchtower and Awake magazines online
from time to time so I'm upto date with current doctrines, new
developments and changes.
#Post#: 1579--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Val Date: February 24, 2023, 4:55 am
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Morning Gregory.
I have read those articles regarding the concept of the trinity
but again I will stick to the biblical texts for now.
On the name Jehovah well Russell wasn't the first to use that
translation.
"In 1278 a spanish monk, Raymundo Martini, wrote the latin work
PUGIO FIDEI (Dagger of faith). In it he used the name of God,
spelling it Yohoua. Later printings of this work, dated some
centuries later, used the spelling JEHOVA.
Soon after, in 1303, Porchetus de Salvaticis completed a work
entitled VICTORIA PORCHETI AVERSUS IMPIOS HEBRAEOS (Porchetus'
Victory Against the Ungodly Hebrews). He spells God's name
IOHOUAH, IOHOUA and IHOUAH.
Then, in 1518, Petrus Galatinus, a Catholic priest born in the
late 1400's, published a work entitled DE ARCANIS CATHOLICAE
VERITATIS (Concerning Secrets of the Universal Truth) in which
he spelled God's name IEHOUA.
Now, the direct answer to your question: the name "Jehovah"
first appeared in an English BIBLE in 1530, when William Tyndale
published a translation of the Chumash (the first five books of
the Bible). In this, he included the name of God, usually
spelled IEHOUAH, in several verses (Genesis 15:2; Exodus 6:3;
15:3; 17:6; 23:17; 33:19; 34:23; Deuteronomy 3:24. Tyndale also
included God's name in Ezekiel 18:23 and 36:23 in his
translations that were added at the end of THE NEW TESTAMENT,
Antwerp, 1534), and in a note in this editon he wrote: "Iehovah
is God's name... moreover as oft as thou seist LORD in great
letters (except there be any error in the printing) is is in
Hebrew Iehovah." (Please note as I told you previously, there
was no "J" in English at this time; the J is a product of a
stylized I; thus giving us the current Jehovah rather than the
Old English Iehovah. The "u" used in the above names is also a
reminder that there was no "v" in Old English, as you can read
David in the original King James version was written "Dauid".)
In 1534 Martin Luther published his complete translation of the
Bible in German, based on the original languages. While he used
the German "Herr" (Lord or Sir) for the Tetragrammaton, in a
sermon which he delivered in 1526 on Jeremiah 23:1-8, he said,
"The name Jehovah, Lord, belongs exclusively to the true God."
Subsequently, Jehovah was used not only in the "Authorized" King
James version of 1611, but the Spanish VALERA version of 1602,
the Portugese ALMEIDA version of 1681, the German ELBERFELDER
version of 1871, and the American Standard Version of 1901. It
appears that the Jerusalem Bible was the first one to used
Yahweh instead of Lord and Jehovah
"
[attach=1]
Why is the name Jesus used? there was no letter J in Greek or
Hebrew
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 1584--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Gregory Date: February 24, 2023, 5:48 am
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Interesting, Val, no doubt about that, albeit highly selective
in your search for the use of the name 'Jehovah'.
Yes it's been around in various theological circles for some
time, no doubt, (and just erudite Biblical scholarship, nothing
more significant or theologically important) but what is not
correct is the insistence on using the name by the JW's as if
poor God would feel insulted if we didn't use his supposed
personal name, as the JW's in their dogged literalism insist
when it really only means (in the original) God's eternal being.
Christians in all denominations now use the word 'Lord' for God
(and Jesus Christ as in all the New Testament)
Now, can we get back to my question about whether Leslie, Steve
and myself are not real Christians?
#Post#: 1585--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: guest8 Date: February 24, 2023, 5:54 am
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I have come across many so called 'real Christians' in my 73
years on this planet who gave the religion a very bad name! >:(
In my opinion it is not what you believe that is important but
how you conduct your life.
#Post#: 1604--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Val Date: February 24, 2023, 8:08 am
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Now that Roses, is something we can agree on, it is by you works
and how you treat others, being baptised or attending church
does not mean you are a Christian, I'll fetch back to you later
Gregory about why ;D
#Post#: 1605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Leslie Date: February 24, 2023, 8:36 am
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[quote author=Roses link=topic=54.msg1585#msg1585
date=1677239655]
I have come across many so called 'real Christians' in my 73
years on this planet who gave the religion a very bad name! >:(
In my opinion it is not what you believe that is important but
how you conduct your life.
[/quote]
Very illogical Roses. What you believe does or should determine
how you conduct your life.
Val's subsequent post makes no sense either.
I don't think I will be on thaddeans for long . In fact it is
only loyalty to old cyber friends that I am on it still.
#Post#: 1606--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Leslie Date: February 24, 2023, 8:45 am
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As the only Jr.member here, although , I have been here longer
than most, it does show me how I am regarded by Val.
Are you sure that being a 'five star' general, er -
Administrator; hasn't gone to your head, Val.
#Post#: 1611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
By: guest8 Date: February 24, 2023, 10:39 am
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[quote author=Leslie link=topic=54.msg1606#msg1606
date=1677249946]
As the only Jr.member here, although , I have been here longer
than most, it does show me how I am regarded by Val.
Are you sure that being a 'five star' general, er -
Administrator; hasn't gone to your head, Val.
[/quote]
What unpleasant remarks you have made about Val. >:( You are a
junior member because you have a lot less posts than others.
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