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#Post#: 17831--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Leslie Date: July 31, 2024, 9:54 am
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Greg tries to analyse causes for the Southport murders and
riots. Well I would not bring in Freud as part of the solution.
I really think a lack of basic teaching of Sunday schools and
churches is missing,today. That is the cause.
#Post#: 17833--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Gregory Date: July 31, 2024, 10:49 am
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[quote author=Leslie link=topic=229.msg17831#msg17831
date=1722437672]
Greg tries to analyse causes for the Southport murders and
riots. Well I would not bring in Freud as part of the solution.
I really think a lack of basic teaching of Sunday schools and
churches is missing,today. That is the cause.
[/quote]
I didn't bring in Freud as 'part of the solution', just possibly
as a tangential element of the cause.
I have nothing to say about the unwarranted assumption that a
lack of religious instruction is any kind of primary cause.
#Post#: 17834--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Leslie Date: July 31, 2024, 2:15 pm
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The assumption is not unwarranted.Since the time I was little
Christian beliefs were "floating around" in the background.
Prayers to God were said before Commencement at school, and we
all knew the Lord's Prayer. that was done every morning during
the week.
In Catholic churches today I notice some people don't say the
Lord's prayer -perhaps that is because they never learned to say
it.
I believe a decline in basic Christian knowledge is behind the
decline in social behaviour.
#Post#: 17837--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Leslie Date: July 31, 2024, 6:28 pm
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I knew nothing about the Catholic Church until I became a Roman
Catholic ,and that was when I was 18 or 19. I could see an
increase in sexual mores at that time but did not think it could
get any worse. It did so, of course. I can at the risk of
bragging say Agnus Dei(in full) and ()the full) Pater Noster in
Latin remembered from that time. Plus the first few lines of the
Old Latin Mass. I loved it and still do.
The Baltimore Catechism carried me through the hardships of life
and still do. I am content with what God sends me!
#Post#: 17840--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Gregory Date: August 1, 2024, 2:34 am
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[quote author=Leslie link=topic=229.msg17834#msg17834
date=1722453318]
I believe a decline in basic Christian knowledge is behind the
decline in social behaviour.
[/quote]
Again, I must disagree as the social problems we are discussing
here are due to a variety of causes and cannot just be reduced
to a single factor. Moreover, I'm rather sceptical about the
notion that our society was ever steeped in Christian faith and
belief, other than on a largely nominal level. People would
attend church every Sunday and go through the motions of
worship, including reciting the Lord's Prayer and other texts,
but that alone doesn't mean that they were all devout believers,
as if just being able to recite religious texts by rote could.
I remember in my old school back in the late 1950's and early
1960's we had morning assembly every day before classes began,
conducted by our Divinity master and Anglican vicar, the
Reverend Mr. Haig, with a hymn and the Lord's Prayer recited,
but my memory of the other boys is that of very little religious
faith or devotion and they were more eager to pass around and
read an illicit copy of Lady Chatterley's Lover than any sacred
text. The religious service was what you did, as it was on a
Sunday morning. It was expected of you and at a time when most
people were conformist, unlike today when ultra-individualism,
egotism and hedonism are the order of the day.
#Post#: 17842--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Leslie Date: August 1, 2024, 4:50 am
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[b][b]I remember in my old school back in the late 1950's and
early 1960's we had morning assembly every day before classes
began, conducted by our Divinity master and Anglican vicar, the
Reverend Mr. Haig, with a hymn and the Lord's Prayer recited,
but my memory of the other boys is that of very little religious
faith or devotion and they were more eager to pass around and
read an illicit copy of Lady Chatterley's Lover than any sacred
text. The religious service was what you did, as it was on a
Sunday morning. It was expected of you and at a time when most
people were conformist, unlike today when ultra-individualism,
egotism and hedonism are the order of the day. [/b][/b Greg,
The problem is why are people today as you say? individualistic,
self indulgent etc?
With the rise in the standard of living human beings whose
nature is such that there is conflict between what they should
do and what they are doing , built in to the system, so to
speak. Gives in to temptation,and that makes for an increase in
crime. Christians have always known of this basic conflict in
our nature, and to combat it they need to follow Christian
guidance.
There is a correlation between the decline of Christian teaching
that we all used to get at home, church and school and an
increase in crime. It canot be denied. To measure this
statistically is diifficult as sources of crime can be traced in
official statistics but sources of religious influence cannot.
We all know of the Bible but don't know the teaching of it in
Sunday school and home and churches.[/b]
#Post#: 17844--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: guest18 Date: August 1, 2024, 6:08 am
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Greg, a girl at my primary school passed around 'Lady
Chatterley's Lover', which certainly was more useful to me as a
child than the stuff I had to put up with at the evangelical
church I was forced to attend each Sunday. My mother didn't
explain to me about sex etc as she was too embarrassed to do so,
and left it to me to inform my three younger sisters.
My religious upbringing was very damaging, as was that of my
husband. I feel so sorry for those children who have been
abused by religious pedophiles. I was touched inappropriately by
the pastor of our evangelical church at the age of 14! Of course
there are many very decent religious people too. Just as there
are good and bad of no faith at all.
#Post#: 17845--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Gregory Date: August 1, 2024, 6:36 am
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On Leslie's post, it's confusing as he has conflated the second
half of my previous post with his own response to that and in
the same style of print. Here is my complete post again:
"Again, I must disagree as the social problems we are discussing
here are due to a variety of causes and cannot just be reduced
to a single factor. Moreover, I'm rather sceptical about the
notion that our society was ever steeped in Christian faith and
belief, other than on a largely nominal level. People would
attend church every Sunday and go through the motions of
worship, including reciting the Lord's Prayer and other texts,
but that alone doesn't mean that they were all devout believers,
as if just being able to recite religious texts by rote could.
I remember in my old school back in the late 1950's and early
1960's we had morning assembly every day before classes began,
conducted by our Divinity master and Anglican vicar, the
Reverend Mr. Haig, with a hymn and the Lord's Prayer recited,
but my memory of the other boys is that of very little religious
faith or devotion and they were more eager to pass around and
read an illicit copy of Lady Chatterley's Lover than any sacred
text. The religious service was what you did, as it was on a
Sunday morning. It was expected of you and at a time when most
people were conformist, unlike today when ultra-individualism,
egotism and hedonism are the order of the day."
Leslie hasn't seriously considered some of my observations, such
as most people being conformist in the past. I doubt very much
whether most of them heeded "Christian teaching that we all used
to get at home, church and school", as he idealistically though
unrealistically puts it. They just paid lip service to it as
nominal, token Christians. It's what you did, period. No, there
are many other factors in play here and to reduce everything to
religion is simplistic at best. (In a nutshell most people in
the past have never been seriously religious, except - if I
might be cynical - as a kind of insurance policy.)
#Post#: 17849--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Stephen Horsfall Date: August 1, 2024, 9:36 am
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I wonder if the surge in violence is illusory - we're more aware
of recent violence, and forget about that of earlier decades,
except for the most horrific incidents such as Dunblane,
Hungerford and the London bombing of 7/7/2005.
#Post#: 17851--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's happening?
By: Gregory Date: August 1, 2024, 10:00 am
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Regarding the riots, one observer has made a cogent point. The
use of social media must have played a significant part as word
can spread instantly to many people already on the streets, with
numbers increasing exponentially. This, of course, never
occurred before the rise of social media networks. What made the
Southport riots worse was the false rumour disseminated by
social media that the perpetrator of the killings was a Muslim,
hence the violent attacks on local mosques. This is disturbing
as it is something which clearly cannot be controlled, short of
shutting down the networks.
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