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#Post#: 9578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Leslie Date: October 10, 2023, 7:02 pm
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[quote author=Val link=topic=118.msg9573#msg9573
date=1696958868]
[quote author=Leslie link=topic=118.msg9570#msg9570
date=1696946069]
You just can't see it can you. Greg and Val. That is the only
answer you are going to get from me.
[/quote]
Evening Leslie, we can't see because there is nothing to see, I
didn't think that Catholics believed in predestination, but I
suppose like all religions all Catholics don't believe in the
same things
[/quote]
Predestination which means forecasting the future correctly,
appears to be in conflict with the doctrine of free will. if we
have free will, how can someone predict what you are going to do
before you do it. That is a puzzle. We are dealing with God
here, the supernatural, miracles (which do happen) by the way
and the Catholic Church calls such things A Mystery. And defines
a Mystery as being above reason but not beyond reason.
In today's technical world we generate random numbers on a
calculator which are not really random, but we call them so. in
reality you have an algorithm to do it.
#Post#: 10430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Leslie Date: November 9, 2023, 5:45 pm
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I was glancing through a book by the late Etienne Gilson
entitled God and Philosophy. It cost only $1.65 when I bought it
for a university course.It is tattered and torn Reading part of
it lifted my spirits, I was down in the dumps and I am not
usually like that.It is about "the relation which obtains
between the notion of God and the demonstration of his
existence." Science as we all know all know explains things, it
explainshowthings happen, not why things happen as the why is
beyond them. outside their field of study. Thy do not talk about
God, they do not as a rule even try being satisfied with what
they know about mankind already. Metaphysics of Augustine and St
Thomas Aquinas is the answer for enquiring Catholic Christians.
AI is not going to help these scientists understand God. When
Etienne Gilson wrote the book back in 1941 he wrote a chapter on
'God and Contemporary Thought,' he wrote
that it is dominated "...by the thought of Immanuel Kant and
Auguste Comte. Their doctrines are about as widely different as
two philosophical doctrines can possible be. Yet the criticism
of Kant and the positivism of Comte have this in common, that in
both doctrines the notion of knowledge is reduced to that of
scientific knowledge, and the notion of scientific knowledge
itself to the type of intelligibility provided by the physics of
Newton. The verb "to know" then means to express observable
relations in terms of mathematical relations. Now however we
look at it, no given fact answers to our notion of God. Since
God is not an object of empirical knowledge, we have no concept
of him. Consequently God is not an object of knowledge, and what
we call natural theology is just idle talking."
Now that is only from the first page of this chapter. Etienne
was a confirmed Roman Catholic during his life.
#Post#: 15946--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Leslie Date: May 2, 2024, 2:58 pm
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My sister's husband and I do not get on at all whenever we meet,
and the last time we. met was on Sunday at 8pm, at my daughter's
bungalow. I don't know why he said exactly that I was not a
Christian, but it was in regard to my views on Gaza. Now he is a
relative and must be tolerated, I thought. It was noisy there,
Everyone was talking at once around the table, and the
discussion, if you could call it that came to an abrupt end. We
have not fallen out officially. I suppose we will meet again
before summer is over, perhaps at a wedding which will take
place this summer of someone in the family. I will seek out
others to talk to then.
#Post#: 15949--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Lyn Date: May 3, 2024, 1:13 am
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It really is best not to get into controversial subjects at
social events. I wonder who brought the subject up, was it you
or he? You may not now remember but it might have been best to
just say that being here is a light-hearted and fun occasion and
there's a time and place to discuss serious issues.
You have displayed very firm views on here about Gaza, your
relative may have equally strong views, different to yours.
As you said on another thread, Leslie, there are two sides to
the story. It's not a black and white issue. We only know what
we hear from the media and the media is not to be trusted. In
this country, it is very pro-Israel, I believe it is the same in
the USA.
We cannot judge whether or not someone else is a Christian, more
specifically, truly Christian, only God can do that, but I've
often witnessed such accusations over the years, on the forums
that we have frequented. I believe a Christian will care about
all and have particular love for minority groups which are often
marginalised by society. However, you don't have to be a
Christian to believe that, plenty of others do.
The book of James gives us good guidance. We all fall short at
times, we're human, and it's not easy to walk in the shoes of
another.
I am delighted you had a social evening at your daughter's,
Leslie, I hope all is well there and that you have been somewhat
reassured.
#Post#: 15953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Leslie Date: May 3, 2024, 5:50 am
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With Joe it is impossible for me to agree with him. There were
only three more males to have a discussion with, my grandson and
the two teenage boys of a relative, one of whom is going to
university this year for the first time.* They stuck together in
discussion at the centre kitchen table. The female relatives ,
my wife and Joe's wife listen in or have a discussion about more
practical things than the Middle East.They always get along, and
they are sisters. To answer your question: I have no idea who
started my discussion with Joe. He has just turned 80 this year.
*That will be difficult financially for him as his parents are
divorced as is Anne Carol and her ex. Unless his grandparents
help financially as we did for our grandchildren, They are
prosperous enough more than we are.
Looking back at this topic here a year or so ago, I note that
Val thinks Catholics pray to statues which is not true, we pray
for help from the person the statue represents, not the statue
itself as would pagans do. We ask Our Lady to help us.
Greg thinks it ridiculous that God would punish the righteous
and tends to be an agnostic in religious matters.
#Post#: 16047--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Beverly Date: May 8, 2024, 9:39 am
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I know I’ve said it many times, but I don’t see how any action
can be truly of God if it directly contradicts Jesus’ teachings.
The difference I see between Israel’s killings in Gaza, and
Palestinians killing Israelis is Israel claims God is
sanctioning the killings. In that way, I see what Israel is
doing as much more egregious (and really just an excuse to land
grab.)
Using God to back nefarious purposes in America has tested me to
the point that I’m ashamed to say I’m a Christian anymore. But,
the truth is, most Christians wouldn’t accept me now anyway as
most denominations are built on theology that disregards Jesus’s
teachings.
#Post#: 16052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Lyn Date: May 8, 2024, 2:04 pm
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I agree, Bev, however I believe most thinking, genuine
Christians would question everything and not just follow a party
line.
Th human race has form for this sort of thing. When I search
back in history, the Crusades were fought in the name of
Christianity, conquering the 'infidel' and all that, though they
did nit achieve much success.
(Edited for syntax)
#Post#: 16053--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Leslie Date: May 8, 2024, 5:38 pm
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[quote author=Beverly link=topic=118.msg16047#msg16047
date=1715179182]
I know I’ve said it many times, but I don’t see how any action
can be truly of God if it directly contradicts Jesus’ teachings.
The difference I see between Israel’s killings in Gaza, and
Palestinians killing Israelis is Israel claims God is
sanctioning the killings. In that way, I see what Israel is
doing as much more egregious (and really just an excuse to land
grab.)
Using God to back nefarious purposes in America has tested me to
the point that I’m ashamed to say I’m a Christian anymore. But,
the truth is, most Christians wouldn’t accept me now anyway as
most denominations are built on theology that disregards Jesus’s
teachings.
[/quote]
Where does Israel say God is "sanctioning the killings"?
#Post#: 16057--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Lyn Date: May 8, 2024, 7:07 pm
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I can remember Netanyahu saying that, making reference to
Amalekites, some time ago but later stating he hadn't meant it
'like that'. It does appear to be part of the ethos behind the
conflict.
#Post#: 16118--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is There a Purpose to all This...?
By: Leslie Date: May 12, 2024, 10:37 am
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[quote author=Lyn link=topic=118.msg16052#msg16052
date=1715195065]
I agree, Bev, however I would think most thinking, genuine
Christians would question everything and not just follow a party
line.
Th human race has form for this sort of thing. When I search
back in history, the Crusades were fought in the name of
Christianity, conquering the 'infidel' and all that.
[/quote]
This is an old post I am responding to as I overlooked it when
it first appeared.
As a convert to Catholicism, I did question everything I could
think of. There was no party line to follow.
The Catholics were slow to respond to the Muslim conquest at
first.When it did get going it was because the holy places were
threatened. The Church had no choice but to do something .
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