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#Post#: 11051--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: hamza_tm Date: September 29, 2012, 9:56 am
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[quote author=Flecky link=topic=1271.msg11045#msg11045
date=1348915248]
I don't care about the unit limit but if it's given
invulnerability, the spell can well be abused compared to if you
chose any other spell of that category over it.
There was this same discussion with the teleport strike and I
suggest the 100% physical evasion again, still leaving Fradz
vulnerable to magicks to decrease level of abusing.
[/quote]
What do you mean by abusing?
#Post#: 11053--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: Flecky Date: September 29, 2012, 11:06 am
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[quote author=Doomlord link=topic=1271.msg11048#msg11048
date=1348921177]
You guys will have to make a choice here because there is a
reason why I put that unit limit in.[list type=decimal]
[li]Without unit limit: Fradz will attack all units in the AoE.
Require [number of units]*0.4s to finish casting.[/li]
[li]With unit limit: Fradz will attack max 5 units in the AoE.
Require maximum 5*0.4 = 2s to finish casting.[/li]
[/list][/quote]
Thanks for pointing that out; I'll vote for with the unit limit
now, again with the reason of abusing.
[quote author=hamza_tm link=topic=1271.msg11051#msg11051
date=1348930589]
What do you mean by abusing?[/quote]
Basically what you mentioned earlier; dodging deadly spells by
abusive usage of a spell.
Let's take an example: I assume that the chapter 2 epic boss'
K.O landing event wouldn't kill you if you were invulnerable
(the thing is I don't know whether or not it could bypass the
invulnerability), so with this spell's invulnerability you could
easily dodge the whole landing by targeting the zombies that the
boss spawns.
The real tactic would be to counter it with running, possibly
boosted by speedy boost (which is one thing that spell is meant
for).
#Post#: 11054--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: hamza_tm Date: September 29, 2012, 1:39 pm
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That isn't abusing, it isn't exploiting problems in the game
code or taking advantage of bugs, rather its a legitimate
strategy to avoid damage. I frequently use Fradz's Energy Ball
spell to dodge death the same way. It takes timing, skill in
terms of mana management, cooldown management, and the flash
strike one requires a target to use it on, plus it has a cast
range and time.
If someone successful uses it to dodge a spell they pretty much
deserve the survival.
Tbh it makes the game exciting and dynamic. Doing unusual things
with usual spells. Bringing out creativity and innovation. Like
formulating a strategy to keep enemies and keep Galeoth alive
long enough for his Freezing Winds Ulti finale to hit
#Post#: 11055--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: Flecky Date: September 29, 2012, 3:32 pm
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So you believe that people who failed the tactics so bad have to
be so desperate, that in order to save their asses from a
certain failure they must use a spell in a way it was not
designed for? Or why else is the spell's main idea to deal
damage, not to act as a divine shield?
If I started to charge and run around in circles of a
criss-cross, then it's obvious that I'm hard to be hit by melee.
But if I'm throwed with an AoE spell, that has wider area of
effect than that circle I'm running around, how logical is it
that I won't receive any damage?
Of course it's "creative" and "innovative"... But why for? Why
wouldn't you learn how not to end up in such situations instead
of learning to save yourself each time with a spell, again not
designed for such purpose as its main idea?
The player is not to be blamed for why such opportunities exist
however, as it was clear from the moment a TCO wall didn't act
like... a wall. And so, the rest followed.
#Post#: 11056--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: hamza_tm Date: September 29, 2012, 3:50 pm
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If you prefer a simple standard game devoid of creativity then
it makes sense. Just use spells as they should be used, don't
innovate, don't think, don't let tactics evolve, just play like
a zombie. Be sub par.
But this is PC Gaming, where creativity is to be encouraged.
What is the fun in a game where everything is exactly as
expected? Look at any mainstream game out there, from Call of
Duty to Dota, what makes them immense fun to watch is when
people use old skills/perks in new, creative and unexpected
ways. It keeps the game fresh and interesting.
This is very basic game logic, and part of the reason the Half
Life series was so good. Valve chucked you into a game with a
bunch of tools and let you decide what you wanted to do with
them.
#Post#: 11057--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: doomlord Date: September 29, 2012, 10:03 pm
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[quote author=Flecky link=topic=1271.msg11055#msg11055
date=1348950725]
The player is not to be blamed for why such opportunities exist
however, as it was clear from the moment a TCO wall didn't act
like... a wall. And so, the rest followed.
[/quote]
Is there really a necessity to mention the wall with every
possible opportunity? I can't believe you still held that grudge
with Glacial Surge.
#Post#: 11058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: Flecky Date: September 29, 2012, 11:46 pm
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[quote author=hamza_tm link=topic=1271.msg11056#msg11056
date=1348951851]
What is the fun in a game where everything is exactly as
expected? Look at any mainstream game out there, from Call of
Duty to Dota, what makes them immense fun to watch is when
people use old skills/perks in new, creative and unexpected
ways. It keeps the game fresh and interesting.[/quote]
Character builds and sidegrades are such acceptable innovation,
but abusing skills to gain the before-mentioned advantages
(dodging KOing spells or just spells overall) or similar is just
wrong. In our case it affects just one person, but in various
online games there's always those people who abuse glitches and
the like.
[quote author=Doomlord link=topic=1271.msg11057#msg11057
date=1348974193]
Is there really a necessity to mention the wall with every
possible opportunity? I can't believe you still held that grudge
with Glacial Surge.[/quote]
But so, why wouldn't a wall work like a wall should?
#Post#: 11059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: doomlord Date: September 30, 2012, 1:04 am
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[quote author=Flecky link=topic=1271.msg11058#msg11058
date=1348980400]
But so, why wouldn't a wall work like a wall should?
[/quote]
Originally it is a wall but the idea was modified and the spell
itself reworked almost completely. The word 'wall' isn't even in
the name anymore.
Truth be told, you should stop telling yourself "This should be
a wall" and learn to adapt to the changes.
#Post#: 11060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: Flecky Date: September 30, 2012, 1:14 am
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[quote author=Doomlord link=topic=1271.msg11059#msg11059
date=1348985091]
Truth be told, you should stop telling yourself "This should be
a wall" and learn to adapt to the changes.[/quote]
It should be a wall for the memorial of the bone wall
HTML http://www.diablowiki.com/Bone_Wall_(Diablo_II).
;p
#Post#: 11061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flash Strike reworked!!
By: hamza_tm Date: September 30, 2012, 5:47 am
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[quote author=Flecky link=topic=1271.msg11058#msg11058
date=1348980400]
[quote author=hamza_tm link=topic=1271.msg11056#msg11056
date=1348951851]
What is the fun in a game where everything is exactly as
expected? Look at any mainstream game out there, from Call of
Duty to Dota, what makes them immense fun to watch is when
people use old skills/perks in new, creative and unexpected
ways. It keeps the game fresh and interesting.[/quote]
Character builds and sidegrades are such acceptable innovation,
but abusing skills to gain the before-mentioned advantages
(dodging KOing spells or just spells overall) or similar is just
wrong. In our case it affects just one person, but in various
online games there's always those people who abuse glitches and
the like.
[/quote]
This isn't abusing glitches or anything like it at all. It's
using a legitimate quality of a spell the way it is meant to be
used. Just because it is a passive quality doesn't mean we can't
think outside the box to utilise it in different ways.
It isn't a FREE invulnerability/uber mega death spell. (see
below)
It isn't an overpowered survival that makes the game uselessly
boring.
It takes timing, skill, mana management (Fradz's mana pool is
tiny throughout the game), cooldown management, and requires
positioning and pre planning and overall game sense to ensure
there is an enemy present and you are in range; and it can only
be used on ONE character.
It is nothing like the 'KO spell dodging glitch' you make it out
to be.
It also will make this spell useful throughout the game rather
than being a straight damage nuke that weakens over time. Other
AOE spells have stuns, have massive damage, have heals, debuffs
and manaburns. What does this have but simple damage, leaving
Fradz open to attack and unable to physically attack/cast spells
himself for a long time, and that gets more and more useless
over the course of the game?
Make the game more fun to watch, make it more fun to play.
If a KO spell can be dodged by either
1. Running away, or
2. Staying there till the instant before it hits and using flash
strike to firstly survive in style, secondly clear out summons,
and thirdly stay close to the boss to attack him right away as
he ends his attack,
Then isn't that better than being forced to simply run away with
no other choice? And it's just the fact that you HAVE options
that makes it so much fun.
Boss fights where there is a single way to do things, a single
way to win only just makes it boring. What's the fun in fighting
the boss again and again if it's just a single (however detailed
it may be) strategy to pull off?
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