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#Post#: 10320--------------------------------------------------
Improving Boss fights
By: Geezer Date: August 24, 2012, 7:00 am
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This topic is made so people could give their ideas how to
improve bossfights. When I played TCO, I found some bosses quite
simple, so they didn't require much tactics to best them. Here
everyone can share their opinions how to improve bossfights.
! - this topic is only about improving bosses, not nerfing them.
If you find a boss too hard to beat, you can always lower the
difficulty.
! - this topic is only about existing bosses, mini-bosses, elite
and epic ones.
So, here I share some ideas:
1) Ice spider queen, Ch3 boss, has only ordinary ranged attack
and summons adds. Difficulty of the fight is made by the amount
of adds who overwhelm the player quite quickly. So, I would
suggest the following:
- Reduce the amount and\or frequency of adds spawning. Instead:
give them a stacking freezing attack ability, for example, each
strike of each spider add reduces Galeoth's move speed by 1%.
Additionally, give them a passive that increases boss' damage
by, say, 3% per each add alive.
- Change the boss' attack missile - ice spider should hurl ice
bolts, nerubian tower or lich missile would be just fine.
- Frozen blast - frost nova on Galeoth, dealing moderate damage
and about 20% slow. If after X seconds he doesn't move Y meters
away from the spot of the first nova, another nova shall strike
at him with doubled damage.
- Frost bomb - boss hurls an orb of ice at players location.
Galeoth shall run away, for the bomb one-shots him if he is in
range of explosion (about 300), and sends ice bolts from the
explosion point at several directions.
- Frost bite - passive - attacks of the boss stack a dot at
Galeoth. To nullify the stacks, he should be not attacked by the
boss for the next 5 seconds.
2) Xada. He is the weakest boss in his human form. Shouldn't the
most hated Phodom's enemy be slightly more powerful?
- Add him a spell similar to Fradz's teleport strike - every 0.5
seconds he teleports behind Phodom and stabs him twice as
stronger as Xada's normal attack. This ablilty shall last until
you inflict X damage to the boss - depending on diffiulty. Boss
will be stunned for 3-5 seconds when you interrupt the spell.
This spell may be added at some phase of the fight, after one of
the cinematics (where Xada says smth like "you could have had
quick and painless death, now you die, blah-blah...").
- After cinematic of Zylcious freeing Galeoth add Xada ability
to teleport away from Phodom and start to channel a stacking
damage+slow at the player. In order to interrupt this, Xada
should be attacked by melee attack or a spell.
- Add a pulling\knockback effect to his green line-type ablity -
Phodom should not only get hit once, but also pulled back and
damaged more and killed if he stands too close to the boss when
he casts this. Also, it'd be good to increase the length of the
line and give it a homing effect, so you should run away as soon
as you see it. The sooner you run, the less damage you'll get.
- In his demon form, he is really powerful, but the main
difficulty is the two lines that scissor you if you dont run
quickly and follow a straight line. Anability may be added -
demonic Xada hurls a chaos bolt at the location, deals huge
damage if it hits Phodom and leaves behind a pool that slows and
damages Phodom if he stands in it. This pools persists until the
boss dies, and serve to redice the space of the room and a sort
of a soft enrage.
3) Zarxof. This boss is even weaker than Xada. He is pathetic
compared even to mini-bosses like Vampire Lord, though he is in
charge of all the Kar'gath crew, so he's supposed to be
stronger. What could I suggest?
Events:
- Stampede is quite identical (okay, similar) to Archmage's
ability. I remember the older version where there were fewer
lines of fire, but players were damaged while moving.
- Firestorm. A spell somewhat similar to Demon Fishtern's Cave
In spell, but it's flame balls falling down to the floor. Not
only they do damage, but give a stacking fire DOT, so players
should do their best to evade them.
Spells:
- Fire nova: graphically identical to Phodom's Flame Explosion
ability. Deals moderate damage and increases magical damage
taken by the characters.
- Living bomb - debuffs a selected player for 5 seconds,
damaging him each second.When debuff expires, character
explodes. Player should spread out heroes to evade the damage.
- Flame torment - spell from the cinematic he uses to torture
Galeoth (and supposedly kill the previous lord of Kar'Gath) -
opposite to the previous one. Stuns a selected character and
damages him for a huge amount of damage. Damage is shared
between every character in range of the spell. Here we should
group up. Swithching between spreadinf out and grouping up is
the key mechanic.
4) Siluze. Just a small addition.
- He uses an AOE spell in an attempt to kill Archeon. This would
look great in a battle too. Select a spot, pull the charachters
to that spot, channel for 2 seconds and make a big bang, wiping
everyone who fails to run away fast enough. That would be a
fine addition to the fight.
5) The Healer - in his tree form - has virtually no spells.
-Entangling roots - give the root effect and damage over time
for a selected character and all characters in 300 rande around
him for 6 seconds. This, however, sould not occure right before
his nova spell.
6) Zhitenxa. A good fight overall, but it's rather long than
difficult.
Abilities:
1) First of all, her frost bolt volley has a tiny AOE and tiny
damage. You can not even bother about dealing with it, it could
only wipe you if you have about 20% hp and you are Fradz. I
suggest to increase AOE, amount of missiles, remove stun effect
and add an effect that increases magical dmg taken per each
missile.
2) May it's a bit of hardmode, but I'd add to the frozen
character a debuff that ticks for some precent of current (not
maximum) hp.
3) Her line of frost has somewhat weird animation - like a pool
of water, not frost. Perhaps it would look more suitable if it
were changed for frost novas? And add here a knockback
effect+stun (freeze) for 5 seconds.
Mini-events - happen by cooldown, new events added after
reaching 75%, 50% and 25% health:
1) Triple line of frost - maybe that might be remade as a
mini-event too? For example, boss casts these 3 times in a row.
Damage is a bit decreased, but if you get hit once, you'll be
chilled to the bones (for 50% slow). If you are somehow damaged
while chilled to the bones, you are instanty killed. Only cast
when the boss is below 75% hp.
2) Chain Frost. Launches a frost missile at a targeted player.
It explodes in an AOE, makes damage and slows the player for 10
seconds. Then it jumps to the other player, then the first one
again. The key is that the longer it takes for the missile to
catch players, the sooner it'll die, cause it has a limited
amount of lifetime. So, run away from eachother! The precious
ice walls shall make it harder over the time. Cast when boss is
below 50% hp.
3) Frozen meteors. Launches a magical ball of frost at the
position of the selected (or random) target every X seconds for
Y seconds. The ball lands within 2-3 seconds, makes a huge
frostnova (model of those colored custom effects like fire nova,
shafow nova etc) and leave behind a pool that ticks for some
small damage and slows for, say, 10 seconds. Cast when the boss
is below 25% hp.
Events - when do those occur? By cooldown or at some hp
percentage of the boss?
1) Air phase. It's too easy now. A huge dragon flies in the air
and makes a one tiny little line of frost. I'd suggest this:
- Boss chooses a random character and breathes a line of frost
that follows its target, killing him if he runs not fast enough
from the line. The "frostfire" effect lingers on the ground,
slows and damages anyone who crosses it.
- Another spell for later stages of the fight (when the boss has
cast ultimate at least once) is Frost Bomb. There should be ice
walls present. Zhitenxa flies in the air and chooses a spot,
then hurls a huuuuge bolt of frost. You can only survive the
explosion if you are behind the ice walls at the moment. The
bomb also destroys walls that were close to the impact point.
2) Magical Dragons are too weak, it takes no effort to bring
them down. There are 2 types of dragons: ranged and melee. So,
give them a little combo: one type of dragon stacks some debuff
by their attack, a dot for example, and the other triggers it by
his special attack. Clue is to throw down stacks before they
make too strong explosion.
3) ULTIMATE - changed version of ice walls. Boss begins
channeling animation, effects appear at random places on the
ground, identical to Galeoth's Frozen Fang. If you are too slow
to dodge the effects, frozen fang shall pierce you for some
strong dmg, throw you in the air to a random point away,
slowing\stunning. At the place of frozen spikes ice walls appear
just like they are now, blocking the path.
I believe, these improvements can make bosses significantly
stronger, but without them, for example, Zhinenxa would be way
easier than the Healer.
SO, this were some of my ideas to improve the bossfights, and it
would be great to have more ideas here. If Aero would find any
of thenm interesting, we may eventually see them in-game!
#Post#: 10372--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: Aeroblyctos Date: August 28, 2012, 4:57 am
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Hey I read your ideas and some of them are very good.
Thanks for the ideas.
#Post#: 10373--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: Geezer Date: August 28, 2012, 5:08 am
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You're welcome! I'll probably write here some more later.
#Post#: 10382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: Normandy 1944 Date: August 28, 2012, 8:38 am
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Nooo, not the tank and spank chapter 3 boss! :o
At this time I'm just focusing to it:
Frost bomb - (just as a "did you know?", corp beast uses a
lightning-element version of this skill) Isn't the one-hit a bit
too tough for a normal boss? After all, unless I'm mistaken,
even chapter 2 epic boss's one-hit skill has lower range (or
exactly 300 as well?).
#Post#: 10384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: Geezer Date: August 28, 2012, 11:51 am
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Well, one-hit is compensated by a possibility to avoid. When you
see a missile, just run away some distance.
"corp beast" - excuse me, I didn't catch what beast are you
talking about?
Do you mean a skill when he submerges (or jumps to the floor?)
and smashes you after some time? I guess this skill has even
bigger range, because you have too speed up and not even
hesitate for a moment if you want to avoid it.
The Ice Queen fight as I see it:
Key to the fight is moving away from boss' spells kike frost
bomb and frost nova. It would be no difficulty at all ,except
one thing: adds stack slowing movement effect on Galeoth. So, if
you want to be able to avoid boss' attacks, you must kill adds
ASAP. So, just concentrate on 2 things: kill adds, and run away
when you are hit by frost nova or see a frost bomb approaching.
P.S.: I'm also planning to offer some improvements for the Death
Puppet (boss 5) and Groxts (boss 7), maybe some other minor
improvements to some other bosses. New ideas are very welcome!
#Post#: 10389--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: hamza_tm Date: August 29, 2012, 2:44 am
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Just want to say that the imaginative ideas are good! Excellent
work.
Btw have you actually played the ice queen boss on extreme? The
adds are pretty hard to kill unless you build an aoe-based
Galeoth. If anyone playing extreme goes for (for example) a
mega-debuff Galeoth without AOE, then GG for them. You would
need to tweak a lot of stuff to get it to work, but it's a great
idea.
But a One Hit Kill attack on a normal Boss is a bad idea,
regardless of tactics to avoid it. That kind of thing belongs
with epic/elite bosses only. That's how Aero has built the
bosses so far, and I for one agree with his choice.
#Post#: 10393--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: Geezer Date: August 29, 2012, 4:59 am
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Hamza_tm, thank you very much for your appreciation!
To answer your questions:
I played ice queen on hard, and I found it quite difficult. But
indeed, the difficulty is about adds, and here you either make
AOE build and take take the boss down or you lose lives. And my
idea was to change the concept...from just aoeing adds to some
simple tactics. Fewer adds, spawning not so fequently, so you
can kill them with any build, but need to kill quickly and avoid
bosses' abilities.
Of course, if the concept fore one-shots is ggiving them only to
elite&epic bosses, then I totally agree. It would be allright if
the bomb would deal about 500\750\1000\1250 dmg fore example.
Not deadly, but still painful, so you might want to avoid it.
Btw, what d'you think about other bosses? Zarxof, in particular?
#Post#: 10396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: hamza_tm Date: August 29, 2012, 5:29 am
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About Zarxof, I think the mechanic is genius! Spreading out and
grouping together to win is a great idea :) If we can balance it
well then it would make a really fun boss.
One thing, you really seem to like the idea of having instakill
spells like "kill X character if he does not do Y". Just drop
those and it would be great. Very imaginative ideas.
#Post#: 10407--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: Geezer Date: August 29, 2012, 9:21 am
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Okay, now I'm going to post some more ideas...
Death Puppet.
The first thing I want to mention here....look, a boss is meant
to be somewnat a unique creature. But, at Ch7 Siluze summons
dozens of death puppets - and later we'll be able to summon
those via Omega Helmet too. Maybe it is reasonable to
differentiate a boss and non-boss version of the DP? For
example, make the boss "elder\greater death puppet" or call the
adds "lesser death puppet" or whatever.
Okay. Spells:
1) Bone spike: Impales a character (Phodom or Fradz) by a spike
that pins him above the ground. The spike disables a character
and drains, for example, 10% of his max hp per second. The
second character shall destroy the bone spike in order to free
his comrade.
2) Death Coil. Inflicts X damage to the selected character and
fears him for Y seconds. If the character is feared to the green
barrier, he'll be teleported to the centre of the arena, shall
suffer additional X\2 damage and stunned for Y\2 seconds. You
can still control a feared character but cannot order him to
stop running. Run speed increased by 25%.
3) Death Wards. The Death puppet summons 3 evil wards in a
triangle shape around the "corners" of the arena. Each ward
heals the death puppet for X hp\sec and damages characters by Y
hp\sec. After killing a ward it explodes, dealing damage to
characters and healing the boss if he stands close enough. You
should kite the boss away before killing each ward.
Groxts.
This boss is relatively weak, and doesn't require much tactics
to be dealt with.
Lets have a look at his first phase.
Phase 1: 100% - 50%.
He does only 3 things here, and I suggest to improve each one of
them and add 2 more abilities to the fight.
1) Occasionaly teleports to the king and slices him once. I
suggest to make the boss keep attacking the king until the boss
gets attacked (or until we deal some dmg to him, as it was in
earlier versions).
2) Makes a whirlwind attack, damaging everyone around him every
0.5 seconds. Now, this ability is not danderous at all, because
you can just move away from him and do whatever you want.
I suggest: make the duration of whirlwind 12 seconds. 3 seconds
after the beginning the cast, and every 3 seconds Groxts
teleports to a random character. E.g.: he starts to spin, we run
away, spread out, after 3 seconds he teleports to Galeoth, move
Galeoth away, fter 3 seconds he teleports to Phodom, move him
away, after 3 seconds he teleports to Fradz, move him away. Not
only we'll have to run away from the boss, but also spread out
because if the heroes are to close to each other, damage would
be too huge to be healed through.
3) Has about 5% chance upon being attacked to teleport behind
the attacker and stab him. Actually, this ability makes to
troubles to us. I suggest: Groxts buffs himself for, say, 15
seconds, while that buff is up, he has 30% chance to teleport
behind the attacker, damage him for 1.25X\1.5X\1.75X\2X dmg of
his normal attack and stun for 1 sec.
4) Charges his blades with lightning for 20 seconds. Attack
speed is doubled. Movement speed incresaed by 50%. Has X% chance
on attack to burst a chain lightning to his current target,
hitting all the player's units, including the king (in phase 1).
The chain lightning deals 20% less damage to each successive
target (hitting up to 5 targets total) and deareases Groxts'
current target's armor by Y for 5 seconds. Switch targets of the
boss periodically while this buff is on.
5) Charges his blades with fire for 20 seconds. Attack damage is
doubled. Movement speed is incresased by 50%. Has X% chance on
attack to make an explosion of fire that leaves behind a zone of
flame that ticks for some serious damage. Kite the boss while
this buff is on.
Phase 2: 50% - 5% (or 0%?).
In this phase Groxts gets more magics...Though I'd suggest to
improve some of them and add some more!
1) Forked lightning. I think we can make this much more
interesting. For example: the spell lasts for 3 seconds, each
second it deals damage to the characters and knocks them back
for 400 yards. Stuns for 3 seconds after the cast is finished.
2) Flame torrent. Zarxof unleashes a wave of fire at the
charachter futhest to him, 2 seconds casting time. The wave is
very strong in the beginning, but the longer it moves, the
weaker it becomes.
3-4) Groxts disipates to several balls of fire\lightning. The
lightning balls stun, so what effect shall fire balls have? Dot,
for example?
5) Let's add a spell he used in the cinematic to kill the guard!
Groxts turns invisible. Each 7 seconds his blurred shadow
appears at some random point and after 1 second powerful
lightnings burst around him, dealing heavy damage and giving a
slowing\purge effect to the characters hit by the lightning. He
deals. He does that 7 times, each jump follows 1 second faster
that the previous one.
6) Groxts surrounds himself into a shield of flame and
disappears. He runs very quickly vertically, horrisontally or
diagonally from one side of the room to another, dealing damage
and leaving a trail of fire beneath his steps. He does that
several times, the room fills with fire by the end of the spell,
making it a difficult business to avoid the dragon.
#Post#: 10416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Improving Boss fights
By: doomlord Date: August 29, 2012, 4:50 pm
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Okay I don't want you to be disappointed pal but there is one
thing I must warn you first: not all of your ideas will make it
to the campaign. And those able to will likely be twisted by
Aero into something else (possible completely) different. I have
experienced this once so you should prepare yourself. There is
no absolutely no offense/negative attitude in this post. I am
just telling you the truth.
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