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#Post#: 15--------------------------------------------------
ON ALLIED EW
By: Flying Dutchman Date: June 3, 2020, 11:53 am
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Guys
I’ve been looking through the EW Thesis Rob sent that Chris
forwarded to me – started searching for keywords
Mandrel does not belong in the game as we know it.
Monica is hardly mentioned – lots of references to “Santa
Monica” – I still believe it was a common device
The Thesis does not differentiate between Gee and Gee-H at least
I was unable to find “Gee-H”, “Gee H”, or “Gee – H”
Read a little on Window – most references is to 100 Grp aircraft
but I am not sure it is as widely used in every aircraft in
every mission.
....at this point I think I will start using only Gee, Gee-H
.....maybe rolling for which one you get in a transition period
Monica
but No Mandrel, no H2S and no Window either – Id say not using
these would likely be more historical that using them on every
mission and dropping Window at will when ever a aircraft can’t
evade and is running for home which has been what I have been
doing with the EW most mission. These counters in the game are
about as useless as the “fire extinguishers” counters and the
non standard weapons counters.
I will be interested to see what or how Steve Dixon handles
these IF we ever start this group campaign.
Glenn
From: Christopher Schall
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 4:49 PM
To: Glenn Saunders
Subject: FW: ON ALLIED EW
Try this for robs
From: bob marley [mailto:robocop01@gmx.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 3:17 PM
To: GLENN SAUNDERS
Cc: Harvey T.Dearden; NIGEL HODGE; David Damrel; Christopher
Schall; Richard A Martin; Rob Wagner
Subject: Aw: ON ALLIED EW
Heres all you need...
What I would love, would be reasonable NOT just random tables on
Allied EW availability with time. I just have no info.
Chris made a set, but it's just random.
Mandrel is extremely rare in non pathfinder units.
I was reading something from a website that implied H2S was not
common either.
Monica was common believe. But I can't prove it.
Gee was also common, but when Gee-H was released, how common was
it and I assume aircraft without Gee-H would likely have had
Gee.
Is Window unlimited ? I sure use lots of it going back to base
when I cant corkscrew?
And clearly .....when dropping window, you are trading off
something else somewhere else. Because it has to be dropped by a
crewmember not doing his assigned job. Going to the target, the
nose guns are unmanned, or the wireless operator is doing it
...so he isn't listening to recall, etc
This was a really missed opportunity for the game.
#Post#: 22--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Airborne Date: June 3, 2020, 12:25 pm
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Chris is on the forum. :) I agree that the EW table needs work.
I will still roll for these to give the game some flavor, but
will amend my chart as necessary. I did find that on or after
May 42, about 1/2 of ac had Gee. I suppose if you want to play
out a PF or other specialized group, you could add more of your
choosing. (?).
Chris
#Post#: 35--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Flying Dutchman Date: June 3, 2020, 3:36 pm
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[quote author=Airborne link=topic=9.msg22#msg22 date=1591205115]
Chris is on the forum. :) I suppose if you want to play out a
PF or other specialized group, you could add more of your
choosing. (?).
Chris
[/quote]
The pathfinders were better equipped.
But then again, they flew 45 OPS as a tour for the honour of
wearing the PFF badge...
Or 60 OPS in a row for a double, and not have to come back for a
2nd tour.
#Post#: 75--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Airborne Date: June 5, 2020, 12:21 pm
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Here is my updated chart. For gaming purposes, I do like to
have some chance but feel free to make EW whatever you want.
#Post#: 81--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Glenn Saunders Date: June 5, 2020, 12:53 pm
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I like this one.
But we need to do something to make Window not a single airplane
defense I think.
Currently I use it mostly over water as it cuts the chance of
detection greatly and when I have an engine out and can't
Corkscrew ...which is gamey I feel ...but this was how I figured
to use it best in the current riles
#Post#: 83--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Airborne Date: June 5, 2020, 1:05 pm
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Not sure it definitely wasn't used for single point defense.
Are we sure of this?
I (typically) only use it when near coast heading toward target.
#Post#: 90--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Flying Dutchman Date: June 6, 2020, 1:53 am
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[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]Chris,
Window was a "team effort" done by all and benefitting ALL in
the stream.(from its availability date july 43 it was always
used)
IF you are in the stream, but not windowing, you are too small
too make a difference.
Flying on the fringes or outside the stream DOES make you more
vulnerable...
July 43-pre-1944 it screwed up any AI dependant attack.(and from
aug 44 on again)
Imagine this: the bordfunker (radar man) gets an "normal" echo
on his tube and leads his pilot to it.
It approaches rapidly, so he instructs his pilot to slow down
fast. Then it vanishes from his tube.
Another group of targets represent themselves, so happily he
picks one and leads his pilot to it.
The same thing happens again and again, driving them crazy...
What happens is that the windows radar echo equals a real
bomber, but not its speed.
Where normally a bomber cruizes with some 200 mph, the NF
approaches with say 250 mph for a net closure rate of 50 mph.
With window the closure rate is 250 mph...
So:
-july-dec window fully effective on Lichtenstein B/C.
-from jan 44 with introduction of Lichtenstein SN-2 its
effectiveness waned quickly. The germans developed this radar
with different wavelength, filtering out false echos.
The radar pendulum shifts to the germans. The costly attacks on
Berlin, Nuremberg ect happen.
-in july 44 an intact NF JU88 with complete EW suite lands
mistakenly in the UK, remarkable luck!
SN-2 gets discovered, (amongst other) and window gets modified
to spoil its wavelength again..
The radar pendulum shifts to the allies.
Window effect visualized: (take note on mandrel usage too)
#Post#: 96--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Flying Dutchman Date: June 6, 2020, 3:19 am
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[quote author=Airborne link=topic=9.msg75#msg75 date=1591377704]
Here is my updated chart. For gaming purposes, I do like to
have some chance but feel free to make EW whatever you want.
[/quote]
Chris, may I suggest following:
Ad BOOZER to the suite.
It flashed a red light intermittingly (not directly painted) or
steadily (directly painted) depending Lichtenstein B/C
distance/vincinity.
Makes crew aware of potential danger. A passive system.
The WINDOW dates are start dates, (first Hamburg attack of
battle of Hamburg, 26 july 43 from top of head, please check)
and
from then on active automatically. Do your bit with a crewmember
dumping if possible.
MANDREL is an automatic "service" by 100 Group, and like window
"automatic benefit" even without instructing a crewmember to do
some thing.
MONICA had very limited use IRL. It is NOT disturbed by WINDOW
as game modifiers suggest.
(Other wavelength. Or else BoCo would have removed MONICA from
the moment it introduced WINDOW.)
And I think MONICA could help preventing VC or SM in the sense
that it would raise alertness and thereby chance of spotting NF.
IF you install it, use its benefits until till tide turns by
FLENSBURG (check introdate, dunno by heart) that causes negative
drm.
I suggest a crew cant stop using MONICA, because you/BoCo dont
know about FLENSBURG until captured JU88 in july 44 forces
removal of MONICA.
Rob.
#Post#: 118--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: Glenn Saunders Date: June 7, 2020, 1:49 am
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I had boozer and Monica mixed up. Omg the EW is badly messed up
in the game.
I was turning on and off Monica depending if I was dropping
Window.
#Post#: 119--------------------------------------------------
Re: ON ALLIED EW
By: scarletto Date: June 7, 2020, 2:13 am
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Flensburg came in early 44, February. So a 6 month window of
use.
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