DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Target for Tonight
HTML https://targetfortonight.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: New Board
*****************************************************
#Post#: 25--------------------------------------------------
window
By: scarletto Date: June 3, 2020, 2:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://tailendcharlietedchurch.wordpress.com/operations/window-radar-jamming/
#Post#: 26--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: Airborne Date: June 3, 2020, 2:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting and good stuff. So, only 24 bombers were
briefed on using Window during the Hamburg raid? I assume that
means only 24 bombers carrying it. I thought it was more
prevalent even early on. My chart starts out too generous, 2-6
chance of having it in July 43. Needs amended. But, how common
after July?
#Post#: 28--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: scarletto Date: June 3, 2020, 2:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
From reading accounts, its not that common for window to be
carried, but its not easy to say how many, i would say, roll for
it, but make it hard to get. Will look more in the morning. Im
onto some other EW stuff as well.
#Post#: 29--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: Airborne Date: June 3, 2020, 3:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok, amended charts to make more difficult to obtain. These can
be easily changed.
#Post#: 36--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: scarletto Date: June 4, 2020, 12:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We have to look at the plus of using window, id say give it a
plus modifier in 1943 only, as in 44 the Germans had a radar
that countered it, and for many months, the British did not know
about it.
#Post#: 37--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: Flying Dutchman Date: June 4, 2020, 1:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=scarletto link=topic=14.msg36#msg36
date=1591247877]
We have to look at the plus of using window, id say give it a
plus modifier in 1943 only, as in 44 the Germans had a radar
that countered it, and for many months, the British did not know
about it.
[/quote]
Correct. Enter the SN-2.
Also: check Boozer warning system. Seems like some effectiveness
IRL, contrary to Monica.
Perfect for a modifier in the sense of an "alerted bomber".
Monica was a nuisance to use, as its constant activation was
caused by (well mostly) other bombers in the stream.
It operated by sending a high chime trough the intercom, when
triggered. And triggered it was.
So most crews did not use it, doubted its effectiveness anyway.
An ORS study did not find any significant relation between its
use and losses, stating "the crews are right"....
#Post#: 38--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: Flying Dutchman Date: June 4, 2020, 1:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Airborne link=topic=14.msg26#msg26
date=1591213751]
Very interesting and good stuff. So, only 24 bombers were
briefed on using Window during the Hamburg raid? I assume that
means only 24 bombers carrying it. I thought it was more
prevalent even early on. My chart starts out too generous, 2-6
chance of having it in July 43. Needs amended. But, how common
after July?
[/quote]
Another failure of the game is its interpretation of window.
It is presented like a "personal ecm box", to be equipped with
or not.
In reality, enough a/c were throwing out bundles to distort the
radar picture of the whole stream, irrelevant if your a/c has it
or not.
So when used, and when effective (pre-Lichtenstein SN-2 times,
which started installation on NF from jan 1944, until Ju88 with
it was captured in UK and new window length was developed ca.
july(?) 1944) the effects of window is there for all bombers on
track in the stream.
"Sacrificing" a crewmember to do the dumping is the only price
to pay.
The irony is that window gave a short time advantage, pressing
the germans into adapting to an even deadlier system long time
(tame boar) allowing for more NF contacts with bombers. Crafty
[s]Ba...[/s] lot I mean. I know them...
It was however one of the mounting nuisances for the NF.
A great drawback of the SN-2 radar was range a limitation of ca.
300m. That is, for the LAST crucial 300m to the bomber, to get a
visual id, the SN-2 was blind.
Therefore the germans remounted the old lichtenstein B/C in
tandem with SN-2, to help for the last part of the intercept.
More weight and drag for Fritz...
#Post#: 62--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: Airborne Date: June 5, 2020, 9:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Reading the Middlebrook Peenemunde raid book---great stuff!!
It mentions that ALL bombers had Window (each carrying 200 or
more bundles of it) for this attack.
#Post#: 70--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: Glenn Saunders Date: June 5, 2020, 11:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Chris your chart still has Mandrel listed as a 5-6 chance.
Mandrel was only used by 100 Grp EW Sqdns ....so if 100 Gp, they
have it, else, as far as I can determine ....no aircraft that
carried bombs also carried a mandrel set.
#Post#: 71--------------------------------------------------
Re: window
By: Glenn Saunders Date: June 5, 2020, 11:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone know if Window was carried as
a) Defense for an individual bomber or
b) just as confusion in general for the NFS attacking the raid.
Window EW effect could become a die roll on a raid on any given
zone vs a thing one aircraft drop to defend itself.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page