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#Post#: 891--------------------------------------------------
Tumbling Eggs Leads to Females that Wont Hold Eggs. Thoughts?
By: ChezkyNola Date: September 29, 2014, 8:24 pm
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I have had many discussions with people who swear that when you
develop eggs in a tumbler than those babies will not hold eggs
when they mature. Any thoughts?
#Post#: 893--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tumbling Eggs Leads to Females that Wont Hold Eggs. Thoughts
?
By: UnderCoverBrother Date: September 29, 2014, 8:29 pm
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[quote author=ChezkyNola link=topic=171.msg891#msg891
date=1412040243]
I have had many discussions with people who swear that when you
develop eggs in a tumbler than those babies will not hold eggs
when they mature. Any thoughts?
[/quote]
I don't necessarily believe this one, however they might hold
better if left with the mother.
I don't think if you strip them early they will not ever hold
haha.
Instincts are embedded in their dna from who knows when lol.
#Post#: 993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tumbling Eggs Leads to Females that Wont Hold Eggs. Thoughts
?
By: Jennifer Date: October 1, 2014, 9:14 pm
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I think it's complete hoooey. ::)
What I think really happens is that fish have a certain level of
instinct built in. Some of your females are panic prone and
will swallow up eggs or spit fry with very little provocation or
they just don't a strong desire to hold. This is true in nature
and your tank. Now, in nature, fish that don't have a lot of
instinct to actually hold, wouldn't be contributing to
population. Those fry would be weeded out before they were fry
in a lot of cases. Only the fish with a lot of instinct to hold
would. Thus, your wild caught fish being better parents, makes
sense.
But then, when we get them into our tanks and strip the females,
or remove the eggs for spawning, or even remove parents so they
don't eat the babies, we don't know the level of instinct we're
passing on. It very well could be that the fish that was
stripped had a low instinct level to begin with, and that trait
was passed to her offspring because she was stripped and the fry
were nurtured by us.
I actually see this in another way with the livebearer species I
raise. The closer a species is to a wild origin, the less
inclined the parents are to cannibalize the young - IN MOST
SPECIES. I won't say all, there are some wild types that are
terrible about that, but in many, they don't care for the young,
but they tend to ignore them. In most of you domestic
livebearers, cannibalism of the young is much bigger problem.
Now, I all at once think that some fish are a lot smarter than
we give them credit for, but I also do not believe that any fish
"learns" behaviors from it's parents. That's giving them too
much credit in an area they just don't have the neural net to
handle. I think, there are people in the hobby who realize this
kind of thing, and won't continue to breed fish that parent in
the wild but won't in your tank - but for a lot of hobbyists
they just might not have a clue, or those low instinct fish
might be all they have to breed, so scrapping that pair and
getting a new one hoping the new ones will be better parents
isn't a very appealing idea. Especially with some of your
slower growing, later to breed species. Nobody wants to takes
two years to raise up some fish, finally have fry and then scrap
that pair because mom eats her eggs. Nope, we strip! We get
fry, but likely, we get fry with low instinct to parent.
Ramble ramble ... animal behavior is fascinating, as is the
genetics of behavior. I could go on talking about it all day.
;)
#Post#: 1271--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tumbling Eggs Leads to Females that Wont Hold Eggs. Thoughts
?
By: kgtropicals Date: October 9, 2014, 6:32 am
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Yeah whoever says they wont hold if they were stipped at birth
is trying to make up the rules. It's a bunch of garbage. Having
bred thousands of fish I can assure you stripping females
doesn't effect what they instinctively do.
It WILL however effect their "parenting" of the fry. That is a
completely different phenomenon, I guess if they don't have that
opportunity to bond with the fry and have them taken away from
them they naturally wont parent them.
#Post#: 1283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tumbling Eggs Leads to Females that Wont Hold Eggs. Thoughts
?
By: Jennifer Date: October 9, 2014, 2:07 pm
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Hrm ... you know a lot of species, not just fish, are like that.
Once the offspring are removed the parent no longer views them
as their offspring.
I think it'd be interesting to find out just why that is.
Although, with fish, I'm not thinking there a lot of psychology
involved. I'm not sure fish "bond" with their offspring in the
way mammals bond with theirs. If I can find the time, maybe
I'll look to see if I can find any research on that.
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