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       #Post#: 1288--------------------------------------------------
       .. markets FAILED to provide what people need and created a
       problem markets have been unable to solve.
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: September 6, 2023, 2:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]
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       Commentaries are opinion pieces contributed by readers and
       newsmakers. VTDigger strives to publish a variety of views from
       a broad range of Vermonters. Commentaries give voice to
       community members and do not represent VTDigger’s views. To
       submit a commentary, follow the instructions here.
       September 1, 2023, 6:30 am  This commentary is by
       [glow=green,2,300]George Longenecker[/glow]
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       />of Middlesex, who taught at Vermont Technical College.
       [center]
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       />If this is the free market at work, where is the
       freedom?[/center]
       
       [move]The freedom of
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-040622202719-1406786.gif&#129430;<br
       />[glow=red,2,300]industry[/glow] to thwart emissions
       regulations
       and to argue that climate change is a myth got us into this
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       />disaster. [/move]
       The week after the flood, I walked through downtown Montpelier.
       On the lawn of the Kellogg-Hubbard Library was a 5-foot-high
       pile of waterlogged books. Across Main Street were piles of
       debris from Hugo’s Restaurant and other businesses. I had to
       meander around head-high piles of debris in front of Bear Pond
       Books and Capitol Stationers.
       We met in offices above Walgreen’s Pharmacy, where a disaster
       recovery team had ripped the store to its studs. The building
       and the whole city smelled of mold.
       In their book “The Big Myth,” Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway
       document how for the last century big business has lobbied
       against any government regulation. They say: “Climate change is
       a market failure, because markets, acting illegally, failed to
       provide what people need and created a problem markets have been
       unable to solve.”
       In their earlier book, “Merchants of Doubt,” they documented how
       think tanks and lobbyists, some funded by fossil fuel
       corporations, cast doubt on the science of climate change. They
       did so, especially in the case of Exxon-Mobil, knowing that the
       scientific predictions of global warming were reasonably
       accurate.
       Any science operates within limits of reasonable accuracy, but
       &#128024;&#129429;&#129430;&#128013;&#128520;
       [glow=red,2,300][glow=maroon,2,300]doubters[/glow][/glow]
       [glow=red,2,300]twisted[/glow] the science to claim that global
       warming was false.
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       If fossil fuel emissions had been more strictly regulated
       starting in the mid-20th century, we probably would not have had
       the disastrous Vermont flood of July 10-12. The freedom of
       industry to thwart emissions regulations and to argue that
       climate change is a myth got us into this disaster.
       A few powerful corporations have tried to convince us that there
       should be no federal regulations on their activities and that
       the free market will fix things. Yet freedom has always been a
       delicate balance, weighing some rights against others.
       With more than 4,000 homes and 800 businesses in Vermont
       destroyed, we see close up the effects of climate change.
       Vermont’s July flood was but one in series of summer climate
       disasters that are coming more frequently and coming sooner than
       predicted.
       I recently drove through Montpelier at dusk; storefront after
       storefront was dark. I realized that things will never be the
       same. If this is the free market at work, where is the freedom?
       It’s as though we’re driving a 1960 Edsel down the highway at
       95, gas to the floor, 10 miles to the gallon, unwilling to hit
       the brakes even when we see the flood ahead.
       There is still time to put on the brakes and reverse course,
       though we cannot easily undo the damage done and the warming
       that’s begun. It will take federal and international
       cooperation. Oreskes and Conway say in “The Big Myth”: “American
       antagonism toward science and government regulations has
       hindered action on global climate change.”
       The bickering and blaming will have to stop. The Inflation
       Reduction Act of 2022 was a good start. Congress needs to
       continue to do more. Without government leading the way on
       climate change, the weather we’ve seen this summer will
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       />[glow=maroon,2,300]continue[/glow].
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       />
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       #Post#: 1393--------------------------------------------------
       Inside the campaign that put an &#129430; oil boss in &#128520;
       charge of a climate summit.
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: October 27, 2023, 12:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
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       October 27, 2023
       [center]The [glow=red,2,300]Laptop-Throwing
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-040622202719-1406786.gif<br
       />Oil Boss[/glow] Hosting Climate Negotiations Has Benefited
       From
       [glow=red,2,300]30 Years of PR[/glow][/center]
       This year’s annual global climate negotiations, the 28th
       Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework
       Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) or just COP28 for short,
       will be hosted in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) by Sultan Ahmed
       Al Jaber, who heads the petrostate's oil and renewables
       companies. As we and others have noted, the UAE's been on quite
       a public relations (PR) kick, making use of bots on Twitter and
       accounts effusively praising the country on Reddit.
       The latest insights into the petrostate’s PR efforts come from
       Ben Stockton and Amy Westervelt, who provide The Intercept with
       a look "inside the campaign that put an oil boss in charge of a
       climate summit." There's a lot of great history in the article,
       but here are excerpts of our favorite parts to entice you to go
       read the story in full!
  HTML https://theintercept.com/2023/10/25/cop28-uae-oil-climate-sultan-al-jaber/<br
       />
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       It seems that [glow=red,2,300]years of PR contracts with major
       American agencies[/glow] have been important not just to the
       [glow=red,2,300]UAE[/glow] as a whole but also to
       [glow=red,2,300]&#129421; Al Jaber on a personal level, as
       "behind closed doors,[/glow] Al Jaber is said to be an exacting
       boss with a domineering approach.” “Two former COP28 team
       members claimed Al Jaber once threw a laptop at a wall in a fit
       of anger; one of them said he had a reputation as a
       '[glow=red,2,300]bully[/glow].'"
       Yikes! And the bigger climate picture isn't any better. Stockton
       and Westervelt explain, "Al Jaber has rebuffed calls to step
       down from Adnoc, insisting there is no conflict of interest. But
       the line between the oil company and COP28 has 'blurred,' one
       former summit staffer said. At one point, the COP team was
       working out of Adnoc headquarters." What's more, when the UNFCCC
       questioned the UAE team about whether the national oil company
       Adnoc "had access to COP28 strategic documents," it turned out
       that "Adnoc employees were still being consulted on how to
       respond to media inquiries about the summit" months later.
       In fact, "One of Al Jaber’s advisers at Adnoc was signing off on
       communications leaving the COP28 team while still employed at
       the oil company, according to people who worked with him. While
       attending a U.N. conference in June, Oliver Phillips registered
       as a representative of Adnoc. But according to two sources who
       worked on COP28 communications, Phillips had already played a
       key role in steering PR efforts for the summit."
       Despite multiple sources confirming that Phillips had been an
       employee of the oil company until recently, he doesn’t even
       declare any affiliation with Adnoc on his LinkedIn page.
       The line between Al Jaber's roles as an oil boss and as the
       climate negotiations overseer have even been blurred for the
       high-power American public relations firms long tapped by the
       UAE to burnish its image, which include APCO, Burson Cohn &
       Wolfe, Edelman, and Teneo. "Some agencies acting on behalf of
       COP28 were engaged by Adnoc and Masdar rather than the COP team,
       according to sources with direct knowledge and filings with the
       U.S. Justice Department under the Foreign Agents Registration
       Act, or FARA, which requires U.S. companies to report their
       dealings with foreign governments."
       Edelman in particular has apparently tasked "Lindsay Clifton,
       former spokesperson for the Republican National Committee and
       deputy press secretary for
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-250422163150-10512004.png<br
       />[glow=red,2,300]President Donald Trump[/glow]" to work for the
       UAE's COP team. This adds someone to the climate negotiation
       organizing crew whose White House position entailed defending
       "Trump’s stance on climate change as his administration rolled
       back policies intended to help abate global heating." Clifton
       was "listed as Al Jaber’s direct 'media support' during the U.N.
       General Assembly in September," according to a "strategy
       document." Despite being a PR person hired for media support,
       "Clifton did not respond to requests for comment."
       Fortunately, someone actually worth hearing from did respond to
       the reporters’ inquiries: "[glow=teal,2,300]Melissa
       Aronczyk[/glow]
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-110422180554-644315.gif,<br
       />media studies professor at Rutgers University and co-author of
       ‘A Strategic Nature,’ a book about the history of environmental
       PR". She told Stockton and Westervelt that the
       [glow=red,2,300]fossil fuel industry[/glow] has been working for
       decades to prevent climate action: “Working with U.S.
       [glow=maroon,2,300]&#128013; PR firms[/glow],
       [glow=red,2,300]oil and gas companies[/glow],
       [glow=maroon,2,300]car companies[/glow], and
       [glow=red,2,300]petrochemical companies[/glow] all conspired 30
       years ago to create campaigns and programs around
       ‘sustainability’ with the goal of telling the world that the
       fossil fuel industry was helping to ‘solve’ the problem of
       environmental degradation and climate change."
       And, according to Aronczyk, "when
       [glow=red,2,300]companies[/glow] want a seat at the table where
       climate policy is at stake, it’s primarily so they can
       [glow=red,2,300]control[/glow] what happens.” “Having the head
       of an [glow=red,2,300]oil company[/glow] presiding over COP28
       represents the culmination of 30-plus years of capitulation to
       the power and money of the[glow=red,2,300] fossil fuel
       industry[/glow].”
       So next time you come across articles trying awfully hard to
       prop up public opinion of the UAE, remember just how much money
       and time powerful actors are investing in laundering the
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-040622210450-1415528.gif<br
       />[glow=red,2,300]petrostate’s oil-stained reputation[/glow].
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       #Post#: 1531--------------------------------------------------
       Proposed Final COP28 Statement Eliminates Any Mention Of Fossil
       Fuel Phase Out
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: December 12, 2023, 1:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       CleanTechnica
       December 11, 2023 by Steve Hanley 30 Comments
       [center]Proposed Final
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       />&#128176;&#129408;&#128024;&#129429;&#129430;&#128013;&#129421;&#128009;&#128520;
       COP28 Statement [glow=red,2,300]Eliminates Any Mention[/glow] Of
       Fossil Fuel Phase Out[/center]
       e proposed final draft of the COP28 climate conference is pretty
       much exactly what any informed observer might have predicted
       when the decision was made for Dubai to host the event and
       Sultan Al Jaber was selected to be its president. Al Jaber is
       the chief executive of ADNOC, the Abu Dhabi National Oil
       Company. Although Al Jaber talked a good game, in the end it was
       same old same old in Dubai.
       A draft of the text of a statement made public by COP28
       officials on Friday included several options for final language,
       ranging from a call to phase-out fossil fuels “in line with the
       best available science,” to no mention at all of the future of
       oil, gas and coal. The possibilities also included a phase-out
       of “unabated” fossil fuels, a vague term that suggests that oil,
       gas and coal could continue to be used as long there was
       technology to capture and store the resulting carbon emissions.
       No such technology currently exists at the scale that scientists
       say is required, the New York Times noted.
       The COP28 End Game
       Now it is December 11. The conference is supposed to end with
       rousing speeches and much glad handing, back slapping, ans
       bonhomie all around as the attendees celebrate a significant
       step forward in the campaign to limit global heating to 1.5ºC.
       The final draft was finally trotted out six hours behind
       schedule.
       According to CNN, the proposed final statement calls on
       countries to take actions to reduce planet-warming pollution,
       which “could” include reducing the consumption and production of
       oil, coal and gas. Many climate experts and observers have
       blasted the draft for its vague language — especially the use of
       the permissive “could”  rather than a mandatory “shall” — and a
       lack of concrete timelines. Earlier drafts had included several
       options that called on countries to phase out climate-polluting
       oil, gas and coal, which observers said was an encouraging sign
       that this year’s summit agreement would be stronger than
       previous years.
       Climate advocate and former US vice president Al Gore said in a
       post on X the summit “is now on the verge of complete failure.
       The world desperately needs to phase out fossil fuels as quickly
       as possible, but this obsequious draft reads as if OPEC dictated
       it word for word. It is even worse than many had feared.”
       [glow=red,2,300]Big Oil Puts Its Thumb On The Scale[/glow] At
       COP28
       [center]
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       [left]
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       The secretary-general of the oil-producing group &#129430; OPEC,
       &#128520;Haitham Al Ghais, called on members and allies last
       week to “proactively reject” any language that targeted fossil
       fuels rather than emissions. That letter, written before the
       latest draft was posted, noted the previous option for a “fossil
       fuels phase out” and said it would be “unacceptable
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-040622202556-13982337.gif<br
       />that politically motivated campaigns put our people’s
       prosperity
       and future
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       />at risk.”
       [center]
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       The new draft calls for countries to take action to reduce
       planet warming emissions, with a menu of choices that could
       include “reducing both consumption and production of fossil
       fuels, in a just, orderly and equitable manner so as to achieve
       net zero by, before, or around 2050 in keeping with the
       science.” It also includes an option for “tripling renewable
       energy capacity globally.”
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       “We have made progress. But we still have a lot to do,” COP28
       President Sultan Al Jaber said Monday in a summit session. “You
       know what remains to be agreed. And you know that I want you to
       deliver the highest ambition on all items, including on fossil
       fuel language.”
       [center]
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       Monday’s draft came after marathon negotiations and was
       published more than six hours later than expected. The
       conference is due to end on Tuesday, but the new draft — which
       departs substantially from what many nations taking part in the
       COP28 conference had called for — could prolong one of the most
       contentious and high stakes conferences in its nearly three
       decade history.
       The Alliance of Small Island States (AOSIS), an
       intergovernmental organization, has already indicated its
       members will not approve the agreement in its current form and
       has criticized the negotiations as lacking transparency and
       inclusivity. “We will not sign our death certificate,” Cedric
       Schuster, a Samoan politician and chair of AOSIS, said in a
       statement. “We cannot sign on to text that does not have strong
       commitments on phasing out fossil fuels.”
       A
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       />US State Department spokesperson said in a statement the draft
       “seeks to balance a variety of interests,” but still “needs to
       be substantially strengthened.”
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       Lead negotiators for the European Union described the draft as
       “insufficient.” EU Climate Action Commissioner Wopke Hoekstra
       told reporters, “I cannot hide the fact from you that the text,
       as it now stands, is disappointing. There are a couple of good
       things in there, but overall, it is clearly insufficient and not
       adequate to addressing the problem we are here to address.”
       Hoekstra added that the EU was sticking to its stance, calling
       for the phase-out of coal, oil and gas, allowing only for fossil
       fuel use in sectors where renewables are difficult to employ.
       Heavy industries like steelmaking, for example, can’t use wind
       and solar power.
       Alok Sharma, a British MP and the president of COP26 in Glasgow
       two years ago, said it’s “difficult to see how this text will
       help to achieve the deep and rapid cut in emissions we need by
       2030. With so many countries backing clear language on fossil
       fuel phase-out, who does this text actually serve?” Sharma said.
       Harjeet Singh, head of global political strategy at Climate
       Action Network International, said the latest draft at COP28 was
       “a significant regression” from previous versions.
       “Astonishingly, it has dropped explicit language on phasing out
       fossil fuels, opting instead for a vague commitment to ‘reduce
       both consumption and production’ by 2050,” he told CNN. “This is
       a clear indication of the fossil fuel industry’s lobbying power,
       influencing global policies to favor
       [glow=red,2,300]prolonged[/glow] fossil fuel use.”
       Rachel Cleetus, the policy director and a lead economist for the
       Climate and Energy Program at the Union of Concerned Scientists,
       said the draft agreement was “extremely disappointing,
       concerning, and nowhere close to the level of ambition people
       around the world deserve. This draft comes with a huge qualifier
       of ‘could’ at the top that makes all the listed actions optional
       for nations. It has a laundry list of actions filled with
       glaring loopholes, including a lack of meaningful timelines” she
       said in a statement.
       Some experts were more optimistic. “We are cooking a fossil free
       meal here in Dubai,” said Mohamed Adow, director of climate
       think tank Power Shift Africa. “People will argue if it’s the
       correct recipe, but the main thing is that all the right
       ingredients are there.”
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       Russia Blocks Next COP Summit Location
       As if to underscore the extent to which politics play a dominant
       role in these climate talk charades, Russia has blocked most of
       the countries that are in line to host COP29. Under UN rules,
       the location of the summit rotates among regions and countries
       within those regions must agree on the host. Next year it is
       scheduled to take place in Eastern Europe or the Caucasus — both
       of which have been battered by war. Russia has blocked nearly
       every viable candidate in the region, effectively holding next
       year’s event hostage, according to the New York Times.
       The latest impasse came on Friday when Azerbaijan won the
       blessing of its neighbor and longtime foe, Armenia, to host the
       summit, only to be blocked by Russia hours later, according to
       European diplomats. Observers called the inability of nations to
       select a host for next year a troubling sign for efforts to find
       global consensus on the far more serious issue of tackling
       climate change.
       “Russia just wants to be a troublemaker on everything in the
       international setting,” said Jake Schmidt, the senior strategic
       director for the Natural Resources Defense Council, an
       environmental group. “I can’t ever remember us not being able to
       find a location for the next meeting.” Julian Popov, Bulgaria’s
       environment minister, called the situation “absurd. You can’t
       have a position in which one member can block the entire
       process.”
       If countries cannot agree on a host for 2024, the summit will
       default to Germany under the rules of the U.N. climate body.
       “This is a unique situation,” said Alden Meyer, a strategic
       adviser at E3G, an environmental research group, adding, “It’s
       amazing we can make any progress on climate.”
       What is really amazing is that the world continues to look upon
       these annual events as vital to the effort to keep the Earth
       habitable for humans and other species. They are not. They are
       political theater that is reminiscent of the scenes in the
       Peanuts cartoon when Lucy always pulls the football away from
       Charlie Brown at the last second. We continuously hold out hope
       that this time Charlie Brown will get to kick the football, but
       he never does.
       The only logical conclusion is that
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-120422122619-6812456.gif<br
       />[glow=maroon,2,300]people[/glow] will keep doing what they
       have
       always done until one day they look around and notice all the
       other people are gone, along with the birds, whales, fish, and
       other creatures who could not survive on a hotter planet. By
       then, of course, it will be too late.
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       AGelbert
       [center]
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       [center]
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       />
       It's the [glow=red,2,300]Social Darwinism[/glow], stupid!
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/corruption-in-government/msg1119/#msg1119
       AGelbert:
       To anybody who is surprised at the morally bankrupt "&#128520;
       real &#129430; world" the Biosphere Destroying Hydrocarbon
       Hellspawn have, once again, successfully defended with their
       endless legerdemain, I have only this to say:
       [center]
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       [center]
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       [center]
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       [center]
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       The &#128530; Hydrocarbon Fuel Based Corporations are not
       concerned with the future of life on planet Earth &#128064;.
       [center]
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       [center]
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       [center]
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       [center]
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       If that seems like an irrational position for reality based
       human beings, who certainly do love their children, to take
       (even if they, being members in good standing of the
       [glow=maroon,2,300]Social Darwinists 'R' US[/glow]
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/corruption-in-government/msg1119/#msg1119,<br
       />care nothing for anybody else's children), then please read
       this
       article, and my comments on it.
       SNIPPET:
       Theresa  Morris said, "Ethical considerations aside for a
       moment, the people in these powerful corporations are not
       stupid. They love their own children."
       So, if they knew, because over 40 years ago ExxonMobil
       scientists laid out the facts to oil executives, who then
       secretly joined with several other corporations to fund denial
       of climate change and obstruct climate change legislation, why
       did they, with malice and aforethought, engage in disguising the
       fact that they were, and are, getting an F in viable biosphere
       math?
       Some will say that it's a no brainer that they did it for
       profit. While that is partially true, it ignores the fact that
       big oil corporations DO believe their own scientists. It also
       ignores the fact that fossil fuel corporations DO NOT believe
       the happy talk propaganda that they fund.
       They plan ahead. They plan to take advantage of the
       'Fragmentation of Agency' mentioned by  Stephen Gardiner. The
       corporations did not get limited liability laws passed because
       they wanted to be socially responsible. I believe they will use
       the 'Fragmentation of Agency', in regard to biosphere damage
       claims, to unjustly limit their liability in a typically
       unethical "damage control" exercise.
       One of the themes about human history that I have tried to
       communicate to readers over and over is that predatory
       capitalist corporations, while deliberately profiting from
       knowingly doing something that causes pollution damage to the
       populace, always plan AHEAD to socialize the costs of that
       damage when they can no longer deny SOME liability for it. Their
       conscience free lackey lawyers will always work the system to
       limit even PROVEN 100% liability.
       [center]
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       Read more: &#128367;&#65039;
       "The central problem with an argument that considers the effects
       of present actions on the future world lies in the fact that
       those acting today will not exist in the world they are
       affecting with their actions." -- Theresa Morris
       [center]
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       What it Means to be Responsible - Reflections on Our
       Responsibility for the Future by Theresa Morris, State
       University of New York at New Paltz
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/catastrophic-climate-change/future-earth/msg27/#msg27
       Assaf
       Thank you Steve for being on the beat for this, and on the very
       precise description of COP as mostly-useless political theater.
       Please do report on the final version though, and I'm definitely
       looking forward to reading your analysis of it.
       Outside of the Paris agreement, these summits have mostly wasted
       time, efforts, and CO2.
       It seems that progress is happening by single nations or
       coalitions of nations banding together for action - rather than
       by the impossible task of having a text that is both unanimously
       signed by all political leaderships of 200+ nations, *and still
       somehow useful.
       Essentially, it's the structural failure of the UN Security
       Council, multiplied 40x.
       Steve_S
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       So for the 28th Time, people puffing on their Hopium Cigar came
       to realize they've been suckling the limp syphilis ridden dick
       of Oilygarchs.... Twas a perfect opportunity to cleanse the
       earth of the most Vile Filth on the rock, just one nice small
       nuke could have solved a lot and sent a clear message that the
       game is over. What a message that would send to Oilygarch Hell.
       It is THEM or US as a species !
       Hopefully, next year the Default will be used and COP29 is held
       in Germany and may the 10's of thousands descend upon them in
       RIOT over the inaction.
       Will there ever be a COP30 ?
       Depends on how much the [glow=red,2,300]F u c k[/glow] Humanity
       @ 29... Tolerance Level globally after THIS Fiasco has got to be
       at an all time low.
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       AGelbert > Steve_S
       Yep.
       [center]
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       I know you have been paying attention and know the score,, but I
       post the following graphics for those who labor under the
       irrational belief that incremental measures can solve this
       [glow=maroon,2,300]Hydrocarbon Hellspawn PLAGUE[/glow] dooming
       humanity AND most other high level mammalian vertebrate species.
       [center]
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       Electricity Electricity > Steve_S
       Who is going to nuke an oil summit?
       The U.S. is happy with it's current campaign against Palestine.
       And Lebanon where it is reportedly using white phosphorous.
       Russia is proceeding with its Ukraine campaign which may be over
       soon as the U.S. switches sides.
       France, UK, India and Pakistan aren't likely to use nukes. And
       the U.S. State of Israel is already busy (see above).
       Electricity Electricity
       In other oil-related news, the #1 and #3 oil producers are busy
       with their military campaigns against Palestinians and
       Ukrainians.
       AGelbert > Electricity Electricity
       Yep.
       [center]
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       It's the [glow=red,2,300]Social Darwinism[/glow], stupid!
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       #Post#: 1533--------------------------------------------------
       &quot;Ethical considerations aside for a moment, the people in
       these powerful corporations are not stupid. ... 
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: December 13, 2023, 2:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thread Source
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       />
       
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       AGelbert truncated post (full post with several images at Thread
       link):
       The &#128530; Hydrocarbon Fuel Based Corporations are not
       concerned with the future of life on planet Earth &#128064;.
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       If that seems like an irrational position for reality based
       human beings, who certainly do love their children, to take
       (even if &#129430; [glow=maroon,2,300]they[/glow], being members
       in good standing of the [glow=maroon,2,300]Social Darwinists 'R'
       US[/glow]
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/corruption-in-government/msg1119/#msg1119,<br
       />care nothing for anybody else's children), then please read
       this
       article, and my comments on it.
       SNIPPET:
       Theresa  Morris said, "Ethical considerations aside for a
       moment, the people in these powerful corporations are not
       stupid. They love their own children."
       So, if they knew, because over 40 years ago ExxonMobil
       scientists laid out the facts to oil executives, who then
       secretly joined with several other corporations to fund denial
       of climate change and obstruct climate change legislation, why
       did they, with malice and aforethought, engage in disguising the
       fact that they were, and are, getting an F in viable biosphere
       math?
       Some will say that it's a no brainer that they did it for
       profit. While that is partially true, it ignores the fact that
       big oil corporations DO believe their own scientists. It also
       ignores the fact that fossil fuel corporations DO NOT believe
       the happy talk propaganda that they fund.
       They plan ahead. They plan to take advantage of the
       'Fragmentation of Agency' mentioned by  Stephen Gardiner. The
       corporations did not get limited liability laws passed because
       they wanted to be socially responsible. I believe they will use
       the 'Fragmentation of Agency', in regard to biosphere damage
       claims, to unjustly limit their liability in a typically
       unethical "damage control" exercise.
       One of the themes about human history that I have tried to
       communicate to readers over and over is that predatory
       capitalist corporations, while deliberately profiting from
       knowingly doing something that causes pollution damage to the
       populace, always plan AHEAD to socialize the costs of that
       damage when they can no longer deny SOME liability for it. Their
       conscience free lackey lawyers will always work the system to
       limit even PROVEN 100% liability.
       [center]
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       Read more: &#128367;&#65039;
       "The central problem with an argument that considers the effects
       of present actions on the future world lies in the fact that
       those acting today will not exist in the world they are
       affecting with their actions." -- Theresa Morris
       [center]
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       What it Means to be Responsible - Reflections on Our
       Responsibility for the Future by Theresa Morris, State
       University of New York at New Paltz
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/catastrophic-climate-change/future-earth/msg27/#msg27
       fcfcfc
       First, WOW! That's what I call a reply.
       Second: "Some will say that it's a no brainer that they did it
       for profit. While that is partially true, it ignores the fact
       that big oil corporations DO believe their own scientists. It
       also ignores the fact that fossil fuel corporations DO NOT
       believe the happy talk propaganda that they fund. "Ah NO.
       As the altered saying goes, "ITS THE PROFIT STUPID"!! 100%
       IT'S CALLED WEALTH IMMUNIZATION.
       AGelbert  > fcfcfc
       Your reply is precisely why I wrote the snippet of my comments
       to the linked article by Theresa Morris. I would be honored if
       you would read the full article and my comments. Then,
       hopefully, you would revise your, "ITS THE PROFIT STUPID"!! 100%
       IT'S CALLED WEALTH IMMUNIZATION." assumption. Yeah, you probably
       will just ignore what I just wrote, which is your prerogative,
       but going FULL CAPS does not provide any evidence that your
       position on said issue is accurate.
       I get it that you just do not want to go there, but the morally
       bankrupt ideology I keep being so "redundant" about is the
       problem. These depraved wealthy polluter greedballs actually
       believe that "empathy is a weakness". They didn't get that
       stupid, socially destructive idea from makin' money, bro.
       So, castigate me until the cows come home, but we-the-people
       will not be able to put a stop to this celebration of
       sociopathic biosphere destruction until the Social Darwinist
       Ideology at the root of this evil is exposed as an aggressive
       behavioral cancer threatening us with extinction and rejected by
       our entire civilization, in general, and the wealthy in
       particular. Human civilization goes the righteous route or it
       really is game over. Have a nice day.
       [move]The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall
       not inhabit the earth. -- Proverbs 10:30[/move]
       fcfcfc > AGelbert
       People make society's, true and bio and family can fire the clay
       in positions that are produced by exposed behavior in lieu of
       DNA (Family).
       But more to the point is that Societies (Based on profit and
       currency) can make people as well. Read about the Famous
       Stanford Prison Experiment instead of the Bible and you might
       learn something. People do not come to the "way they are"
       independent of the societies they live in. You reap what you
       sow.
       AGelbert  > fcfcfc
       You strike me as someone who genuinely wants a better world and
       a viable biosphere. For that, I am grateful.
       That said, if you think my exclusive source of reality based
       information is the Bible, you are mistaken. All the other
       university stuff aside, I have 27 credit hours of biological
       science courses in a pre-med program of studies.
       The Stanford Experiment was child's play compared with the
       "successes" the NAZIs had in "proving" how depraved humans can
       become under certain circumstances. That proves nothing but that
       we do have a baser nature that, if not controlled by community,
       as well as personal, ethical guard rails, leads to moral
       bankruptcy and social decay. We are there.
       Your entire "that's just the way humans are" argument is based
       on the assumption that, underneath the thin veneer of polite
       civilization, we are apex predators evolved to view ethics as a
       feel good mirage we invented to sugar coat our predatory
       behavior. And, that "ignorant Bible thumpers" like yours truly
       do not live in the "greed is good real world". I disagree based
       on historical facts ( Ancient Societies Collapsed When Leaders
       Ignored the Social Contract
  HTML https://www.terradaily.com/reports/Ancient_societies_collapsed_when_leaders_ignored_the_social_contract_999.html<br
       />), not on ideology or Faith.
       Like using FULL CAPS, demeaning discourse is a fallacious
       debating technique. It does nothing to substantiate your
       argument and/or your assumption, in pedantic opposition to what
       I claim, that a Matthew 7:12 Based Civilization is certainly NOT
       (reference to your use of caps to make your point) sine qua non
       to our survival as a species.
       I maintain that the ideology of the Social Darwinist is
       indistinguishable from the despicable ideology of NAZI Germany,
       clearly exemplified in their brutally enforced morally bankrupt
       concentration camp law: [glow=red,2,300]“Eat your own bread, and
       if you can, that of your neighbor.”[/glow]
       What all the entrenched insiders among the parasitic, predatory
       elites and institutions don't dare admit publicly, though they
       celebrate that privately, is that to protect themselves from
       consequence, making the rest of us sacrifice everything else is
       what they-the-Apex-Predators have a Darwinain duty to do. After
       all, since Homo sapiens is just the result of random undirected
       processes, the more you can "enlightened self interest" do to
       get more power by causing, directly or indirectly, the death of
       human competitors for the species gene pool high ground, the
       better. Surely, you cannot, in your heart, believe that is "just
       how it is".
       I certainly agree that you reap what you sow; there is no
       shortcut.
       fcfcfc > AGelbert
       "Your entire "that's just the way humans are" argument is based
       on the assumption that, underneath the thin veneer of polite
       civilization, we are apex predators evolved to view ethics as a
       feel good mirage we invented to sugar coat our predatory
       behavior."
       Ironically, you have completely 180 degrees misinterpreted what
       I am saying.
       It is not, at this point with our knowledge and engineering
       eliminating scarcity for basic needs (If we chose to), some part
       our base instincts driving our societal behavior. It is
       currency. My whole POINT of mentioning "Stanford" WAS TO SHOW
       YOU that it IS NOT SOME BASE drive making them what they became,
       but the environment of the "society" (The experiment) that
       forged their behavioral output. Currency FORCES a Hierarchical
       structure rather than a lateral one. And that is where it all
       starts to fall apart. Currency at this point in time is to keep
       those in power, with power and control. George Orwell back when
       he published, "1984" in 1949, realized this with clarity when he
       wrote the following, "The war is not meant to be won, it is
       meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on
       the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past
       and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the
       war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of
       starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own
       subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia
       or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact".
       War is waged today for profit (GMIC) to keep feeding the profit,
       power and control to those that possess it.
       You need to improve your reading comprehension.
       And I suppose to be nice and help you out, the massive
       significance of what George is saying about Hierarchical society
       is NOT that poverty and ignorance are needed for it, but what is
       he SAYING ABOUT THE DESIRABILITY OF A HEIRACHIEAL SOCIETY in the
       first place!?
       AGelbert  > fcfcfc
       Irony?
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       More ad hom &#129318;&#8205;&#9794;&#65039;? More "strenuous
       efforts on your &#128104;&#8205;&#128300; erudite self to
       patiently educate the Bible &#128053; thumper"?  &#128513; You
       need to polish your legerdemain, bro.
       If your purpose is to "shame" me into abandoning this discussion
       by your continued display of "wisdom", you will succeed, not
       because of that, but because you have convinced me that you are
       not interested in reasonable debate.
       Also, one more gratuitous snipe from you and you can count on
       being permanently free from suffering my "lack of reading
       comprehension", as I will no longer trouble you with responses
       to your posts.
       Sir, please read carefully and slowly what you just quoted from
       George Orwell. Now, without having any blood pressure issues,
       please find some difference, in fundamental ideology, worldview,
       attitude, moral bankruptcy (and so on -you get the idea) between
       that Orwellian modus operandi and David Harvey's quote below
       about Neoliberal Ideology (hint: there is not a dime's worth of
       difference between them).
       The celebrated social theorist and geographer David Harvey
       explains that neoliberal ideology serves the following
       principle:
       "There shall be no serious challenge to the absolute power of
       money to rule absolutely. And that power is to be exercised with
       one objective: Those possessed of money shall not only be
       privileged to accumulate wealth endlessly at will, but they
       shall have the right to inherit the earth, taking either direct
       or indirect dominion, not only of the land and all the resources
       and productive capacities that reside therein, but also assume
       absolute command, directly or indirectly, over the labor and
       creative capacities of all those others it needs. The rest of
       humanity shall be deemed disposable."
       You are allergic to going there, but anyone with two brain cells
       to rub together can see that the ROOT of BOTH of these "Might
       Equals Right" socially destructive approaches to human "bidness"
       is Social Darwinism. However, you cannot accept the hard TRUTH
       that &#129421; Social Darwinism is a clear and present
       &#9760;&#65039; DANGER TO SOCIETY because you are obssessed with
       the role of &#128176; currency in human affairs. Consequently
       you have unreasonably blinded yourself to the fact that
       &#128181;&#127913;&#127820; control of the currency is just ONE
       of MANY &#129421; AUTHORITARIAN &#128296; TOOLS the Social
       Darwinists tyrannically wield, NOT the REASON they DO what they
       DO.
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       />
       &#128513; You will, no doubt, vigorously disagree, but Thomas
       Paine had your number.
       [center]
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       As to LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS...
       [center]
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       #Post#: 2391--------------------------------------------------
       Fossil Fuels Profit Over Planet = Catastrophic Climate Change
       Pollution
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: September 20, 2024, 4:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]
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       [center]
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       [center]A Look INSIDE
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-120422122505-6702373.gif<br
       />an Amazing Six-storey $1 &#128176; Billion Offshore
       Platform[/center]
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/ytvBhLGLMrA[/center]
       Science
       190K subscribers 3,906,645 &#128064; views  Nov 5, 2023
       The offshore drilling platform Berkut is one of the largest in
       the world. This is a huge fully autonomous plant on giant
       reinforced concrete piles, which not only drills new wells, but
       also extracts several thousand tons of oil every day from a huge
       depth. The platform is able to withstand 18-meter waves,
       withstand temperatures down to -44 C° and the pressure of ice
       fields up to 2 meters thick.
       &#9658;All Documentaries:    • All Videos
       &#9658;Subscribe and hit the bell:    / @science-channel
       &#9658;Other "Engineering":    • Engineering
       AGelbert NOTE: This giant drilling platform is, without a doubt,
       a technological marvel. Although a maximum of about 240 workers
       live on and run it, it has FOUR 15 MW gas turbine powered
       electricity &#9889; generating power plants to run all systems,
       but mostly the drilling and on-site crude oil refining
       machinery. So, all this power is used to produce hydrocarbon
       based fuel(s), which is the eventual doom, not just of our
       &#9760;&#65039; species, but thousands of other species of
       complex fauna and flora life forms that inhabit, and make
       habitable, the relatively tiny portions of planet Earth's
       atmosphere and crust that scientists call the Biosphere.
       &#129318;&#8205;&#9794;&#65039;
       In theory, humanity can (and actaully has, but not on the scale
       needed) come up with technology that is genuinely
       [glow=green,2,300]RENEWABLE[/glow]
       [glow=green,2,300][color=blue]in perpetuity[/glow][/color].
       However, the type of "technofix"
  HTML https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1780/632/original.jpg<br
       />that, unfortunately, continues to prevail in businesses and
       governments is based on short term profits from hydrocarbon
       based energy products. Said businesses and Governments give, at
       best, only (SEE: &#128520; Perception Management
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-040622153114-13822364.jpeg<br
       />Legerdemain) lip service to the [glow=red,2,300]massive
       existential threat[/glow] to the [color=green]biosphere[/color]
       that the burning of those hydrocarbon fuels, which said
       businesses and Governments profit short term from,
       [glow=red,2,300]CAUSES[/glow]. The [glow=red,2,300]TREND[/glow]
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/corruption-in-government/msg1119/#msg1119<br
       />(see below
  HTML https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/gallery/soberthinking/1-070223170821-21832348.png)<br
       />is NOT our [glow=green,2,300]friend[/glow].
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       [move]
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