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#Post#: 6009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: Madhatters
Date: February 28, 2017, 10:40 pm
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Dispersing gold on death automatically would be fine, but I
don't like the idea of gold ever disappearing randomly because
someone else used it or was saved... going for a hard farm/golem
only to find out you don't have enough gold anymore would be
pretty much the most frustrating way to die/miss a kill.
I'd suggest dispersing gold on death, then giving half the
saving bonus to the saved sheep and half to the saving sheep.
You could also have separate gold pools, but make all gold
generation even, so instead of giving the owner 10 gold every 4
seconds, saving farms would give all surviving sheep ~2 gold
every 4 seconds and similar with killing farms/sheep for
shepherds. That way everyone gets the same amount of gold, but
no one can steal your share, and saving farms would even
somewhat incentivize keeping other sheep alive/saving them.
Would probably be a good idea to disable shepherd gold sharing
with this system.
#Post#: 6014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: XXXandBEER
Date: March 1, 2017, 6:19 pm
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I do agree losing gold without your say is a bit odd.
I like the idea of just splitting the save gold.
Next Questions:
The stack farm! So let's say a stack is placed directly on top
of another stack farm. Should there now be two stack farms? Or
should the health of the first just double? If we choose double
I think it benefits the Shepherds so they can theoretically kill
two with one swing if they are strong enough.
Another gold question! Should Shepherds receive gold based on
the damage they deal out, instead of on farm kill, or both? Sort
of like Pillage from Wc3. I think granting gold per hit is more
rewarding to the player and encourages cutting.
Also, should day/night cycle play any role?
Thoughts on trading/dropping items? I'm thinking it should just
be buy/sell only.
And what about the portable shop features? -buy and such. Should
I reduce the amount of typing commands as much as possible?
#Post#: 6018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: Madhatters
Date: March 1, 2017, 9:37 pm
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I'd say keep it simple with the stack farm and just have them
stack as usual. Combining them seems like it would be weird with
constructing/X/canceling and, while you shouldn't really be
doing it in the first place, I think it would make stacking them
kinda useless.
I think receiving gold upon killing the farm feels better/more
satisfying, but pillage would be better in the type of situation
where two shepherds are cutting together. Maybe award gold based
on damage done when the farm dies, though I'm still a fan of
giving equal gold to all shepherds when a farm is killed
regardless of who damages it.
For day/night, if saving stays the way it is now, it might be
interesting to have a short(15-60 seconds) night period where
sheep spirits become invisible to shepherds making it easier to
save, ideally encouraging sheep to push towards the middle in
preparation and making saving easier. Or maybe make spirits only
savable at night, but much easier to save (possibly instantly
revived), that way a shepherd doesn't have to spend the entire
game in the pen and there could be a lot of intensity trying to
survive until the next night period. In general I'm a big fan of
making a sheep death less catastrophic (especially when it's
early in the round) and preventing spirits/shepherds from
spending half the game basically AFK in the middle.
Agreed on no trading items and reducing the amount of typing as
much as possible. If you're going with a portable shop, ideally
all items would be purchasable from a quick shop type menu.
#Post#: 6019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: Nmcdo
Date: March 2, 2017, 7:24 am
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Yes! Why haven't we thought of this before, pillage for wolves
sounds a great idea, and forces wolves to cut / play more
efficiently. It also removes the aspect of wanting to finish off
a farm for the gold. It makes it so you can pressure a sheep on
all the farms and still make gold.
A problem would be the cloak granting more gold gain from
hitting so many farms. I think a way to balance this is make
claws yield less gold, but have the capacity to cut through
farma faster.
#Post#: 6022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: XXXandBEER
Date: March 2, 2017, 12:44 pm
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--- Quote from: Madhatters link ---
>
> I'd say keep it simple with the stack farm and just have them
stack as usual. Combining them seems like it would be weird with
constructing/X/canceling and, while you shouldn't really be
doing it in the first place, I think it would make stacking them
kinda useless.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agreed I'll keep it as usual and go from there. Little things
like this could easily agitate a veteran player.
--- Quote from: Madhatters link ---
>
> I think receiving gold upon killing the farm feels better/more
satisfying, but pillage would be better in the type of situation
where two shepherds are cutting together. Maybe award gold based
on damage done when the farm dies, though I'm still a fan of
giving equal gold to all shepherds when a farm is killed
regardless of who damages it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Evenly split gold amongst all Shepherds could be interesting,
and would remove the feeding a Shepherd strategy which I think
is archaic and bad design anyways. I really want to avoid a game
balance where the goal is to feed 1 wolf. All players need to
feel powerful as if they are progressing during the game.
--- Quote from: Madhatters link ---
>
> For day/night, if saving stays the way it is now, it might be
interesting to have a short(15-60 seconds) night period where
sheep spirits become invisible to shepherds making it easier to
save, ideally encouraging sheep to push towards the middle in
preparation and making saving easier. Or maybe make spirits only
savable at night, but much easier to save (possibly instantly
revived), that way a shepherd doesn't have to spend the entire
game in the pen and there could be a lot of intensity trying to
survive until the next night period. In general I'm a big fan of
making a sheep death less catastrophic (especially when it's
early in the round) and preventing spirits/shepherds from
spending half the game basically AFK in the middle.
>
--- End Quote ---
I really really like this idea. Definitely will have to play
with it. Not sure which version I like. Maybe a hybrid?
I like the idea that there won't have to be a 'Camper', but I
also like the idea of easier saves at night. Maybe during the
day the Wisp is visible to the Shepherd's only making it so
Sheep have to make a Sentry or get vision some how to save.
During the night the Wisp is only visible to the Sheep making
the Shepherd have to get vision via Wards or elsewhere. This
could drastically change the flow of the game though, people
expanding during the day and collapsing on the pen at night,
could make for an exciting game.
Need more opinions on this matter!!!
--- Quote from: Madhatters link ---
>
> Agreed on no trading items and reducing the amount of typing
as much as possible. If you're going with a portable shop,
ideally all items would be purchasable from a quick shop type
menu.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes! Exactly! The less typing the better.
#Post#: 6024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: XXXandBEER
Date: March 2, 2017, 3:49 pm
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NMCDO and I came up with a unique idea for Savings Farms.
The typical savings farm goes like this:
-Wait till you have 35 gold
-Blow it all on a savings farm
-Hope it doesnt die within the first 3 seconds.
-Then you die cause you have no gold :D
It's currently extremely punishing to make a savings farm unless
your mass is the size of Texas. In which case it is extremely
punishing for the Wolves to catch up, as you can just sit and
spam Savings farms safely without having to do anything else.
SOLUTION!
After you have built X amount of farms you are awarded a "Bank
Token" where you can make a money farm. We found a good medium
to be between 25-35 farms before a bank token is awarded.
This not only encourages players to build farms, but prevents
them from sitting in a corner and massing savings farms. They
now have to play and constantly build farms to acquire a bank
token.
I think it will benefit both Sheep and Shepherd gameplay, and it
will be more clear to newer players that they have a bank token
they should make a bank/money farm.
Thoughts?
#Post#: 6025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: HaWkys
Date: March 2, 2017, 5:35 pm
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I am in favor of COMPLETELY REMOVING SAVING FARMS
I think most legends will agree, an important aspect of st is
gold management. Using it when it matters. Maybe we can put it
to a vote or something.
edit: maybe instead of every one interval adding the gold, but
every second interval. So u would have 3 seconds 1 gold. Then
the next 3 seconds ur gold depends on how many saving s farms
(if none is 0) then the next cycle u get 1 gold? What u think
about this beer?
#Post#: 6026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: Madhatters
Date: March 2, 2017, 9:32 pm
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I would agree that saving farms should be removed or preferably
immediately removed upon finishing construction and turned into
income (like st hiding/farm defense/relapse). Like you said
Beer, the only way the current saving farm is useful is if you
have a giant mass/no pressure, which I think is pretty much the
opposite of what we want to see in games. The problem with
completely removing them from the game is they are the only way
sheep get better throughout the round, so we would need to add
something like leveling up as the round goes on (I like the idea
of this even with saving farms).
The two interval idea is basically the way it currently is
except you turned the default gold interval and saving farm
interval to be 6 seconds, instead of what they are now (1 and 4,
maybe?). Really more of a balance issue I'd say.
I think the tokens would have a positive impact on the game, but
they feel a little hacky/forced to me. Kinda hard to describe,
but just getting this token every 30 farms doesn't feel like
part of a real game, as much as being forced to do something. I
guess it's better if you get +1 food every time you build a
farm, and then can build a chicken farm or some shit for 30 food
in addition to gold, but it still seems weird to have a currency
that is only used for one thing. Maybe if frost farms/aura farms
also had animals involved and cost food to build?
#Post#: 6027--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: XXXandBEER
Date: March 2, 2017, 10:10 pm
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The Sheep need a way to get gold for better farms or as Mad
stated 'Level Up' now leveling up could be a solution that lots
of gamers are already familiar with.
Sheep could level up from building farms, and saving allies.
Wolves would level up from killing sheep, and hitting farms.
If we do a level up system for both Sheep and Wolf, we could
potentially get rid of gold entirely. Wolves would get abilities
and would be able to tech into different trees if they want to
be a 'damage' wolf, 'summoner' wolf, 'support' wolf etc. Which
could actually be pretty neat, and create some good strategies.
Overall it would eliminate the need for shops, items (which most
items are 1 off abilities anyways), and gold. Who thinks a
system like this could work? I could mock up a skill tree. Sheep
could also have a skill tree, but I think since there's not many
farms, we should just unlock farms as they play longer and level
up.
Important question is how do we handle upper tier farms. For
instance once they unlock an 'aura' farm do we put it on
cooldown so they can't just keep making aura farm? Or should it
be mana based. So regular farm is 0 mana, aura farm is 45 mana
etc, upgrade could 4, etc.
This could really work I think!
#Post#: 6028--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheep Tag Remake - Aesthetic
DIR By: Madhatters
Date: March 2, 2017, 10:45 pm
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Check out
HTML http://www.epicwar.com/maps/262649/
. It's somewhere
between revolution and what you described above. Consumables are
pretty much entirely replaced by hero abilities, and shepherds
choose from a few classes. Sheep leveling up was planned, but
sheep tag was pretty much dead already. We had some pretty solid
2v4/3v5 games for a few weeks though.
If you don't feel like actually playing it, I described the
changes a while back in
HTML http://sheeptag.createaforum.com/community-discussion/sheep-tag-relapse-1-0-0/msg5075/#msg5075
I think gold is probably still a good idea for building farms
and buying passive items though.
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