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#Post#: 2785--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: Shoop
Date: November 11, 2013, 12:34 pm
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Sidey that is not at all the aim of this map, the aim is to
remove all the bullshit added for no reason, and develop a map
based on good decisions rather than guessing.
Overall mastery is a positive thing, but to conclude from this
that anything that requires mastery should be added is a
fallacy.
#Post#: 2786--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: FaceOfMelinda
Date: November 11, 2013, 12:50 pm
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What's the difference between mastery and overall mastery?
I've always said that overall mastery will make the map better
in all cases. Still no example to prove me wrong after 5 years
or so.
But yeah this project seems to be an outlet for you to debate
every little change rather than actually develop the map. What
you manage in a decade beer does in an evening in terms of
change. I will support Beer no matter how low iq and retarded he
is over the current alternative.
#Post#: 2787--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: Night
Date: November 11, 2013, 12:53 pm
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So since no one asked this question, can shoop explain why is
this map any better than beers map? I mean whats the reason to
create a completely different map, make radical changes such as
these? Bring in the arguements.
#Post#: 2788--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: Shoop
Date: November 11, 2013, 12:55 pm
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Sidey
Overall mastery is a general goal for the map, that you can get
better in the map by practicing/playing. That there is a scale
between a really bad a really good player. That the map requires
skill and allows you to get better.
Specific mastery, this applies to nearly everything. For
instance, sheepimage, requires mastery. You will get better at
judging when the right time to use the sheep image is. You will
get better as wolf to know when it is an image. You will get
better at controlling your image. Sheep image use requires
mastery, but that alone is not a reason to have it in the map.
Night
I havent claimed that the map is better right now. This is the
first version and there are loads of things to be changed,
removed and added to it. But this is a better ground for a
future sheep tag map. This is a chance to design a map based on
reason. Not guesses and populism or whatever Beers grounds are.
#Post#: 2789--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: Night
Date: November 11, 2013, 1:05 pm
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--- Quote from: Shoop link ---
>
> Night
> I havent claimed that the map is better right now. This is the
first version and there are loads of things to be changed,
removed and added to it. But this is a better ground for a
future sheep tag map. This is a chance to design a map based on
reason. Not guesses and populism or whatever Beers grounds are.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with the fact that beer is not the best map maker, but i
think his map is a better ground.
Most people enjoy playing on revo map the way it is, except for
a few changes that should be made(Remove sheep illusion). This
is why im asking for VALID reasons to make a completely
different map and try to improve it rather than take a
full-proof map and try to optimize it. So far ur only arguement
is that "this is a chance to design a map based on reason". What
prevents u from taking th 7.4.3 map and design it based on
reason? Beer isn't the mapmaker anymore and im sure chakra can
take this matter into his own hands.
So give me real arguements why ur map should be developed and
current map thrown to the trash.
#Post#: 2790--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: Shoop
Date: November 11, 2013, 1:33 pm
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Night
I kept what I considered to be some sort of essence of ST and I
think its better to start with few assumptions rather than many.
I dont even know all the changes he have made, and I dont know
all the details of the map he started with. Also I consider a
LOT of aspects in his map to be complete trash.
Cashfarms, runes, sheepimage, -buy redbull, cloaks, frostfarms,
the list goes on. I find it much better to start with a ground I
assume essentially everyone agrees on (in the sense that nothing
should be removed, but if something should be removed its still
open for discussion ofc) and from that build a good map.
In general
After talking with Stek, Beeeh, Cele and some others I think its
safe to say widefarm is a farm we should add. It adds variation
and possibilities for the sheep while not robbing the map as a
whole of anything important.
#Post#: 2791--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: baiten92
Date: November 11, 2013, 2:14 pm
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So you're just asking the opinion from oSa members ("Stek cele
beeh blabla") to add WideFarm back ?
Basically, we're gonna play on a new Shoop's map ? let's use 1.3
version ? Bomber, invis pot, trashen jumps etc?
As martin said.. Why do we keep going backward.. instead of
moving forward :S?
#Post#: 2794--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: Shoop
Date: November 11, 2013, 2:29 pm
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Out of them only Stek is a member of oSa, and I listen to
whoever talks lol.
Whole point of this map is to move ST forward.
#Post#: 2795--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: HaWkys
Date: November 11, 2013, 2:31 pm
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guys we really need to talk about what REALLY MATTERS like what
is going to be the [glow=red,2,300]COOL NAME?[/glow]
#Post#: 2796--------------------------------------------------
Re: ST Minimalistic Discussion
DIR By: Chakra
Date: November 11, 2013, 2:32 pm
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--- Quote ---
> So you're just asking the opinion from oSa members ("Stek cele
beeh blabla") to add WideFarm back ?
--- End Quote ---
How about you stop using emotional and factually incorrect
arguments and actually be part of the discussion? One one person
he directly mentioned is in oSa, and it doesn't even matter what
clan they are in anyways.
I'd like to put this out there: I am in no way the developer of
the map. I am teaching Mike ZinC (a coding language used within
maps), specifically towards redoing ReVo. I have time and time
again opted out of offering much opinion towards or against any
changes, etc. I have my own projects to worry about.
Secondly: there is little harm in trying a map. Shoop isn't
forcing everyone to only play this map, nor is Mike, etc, etc.
They simply want to try something new. They want the community
to give it a chance.
I know most of you new kids and kids with twisted memories will
be against this, but I'm sure many of you remember the stack
trial. Nearly everyone was against the removal of stack
farms--Gosu, me, etc--and we went through a year of debate.
Then, as a simply trial, Gosu removed stack farms. He didn't
FORCE people to play it--he continued to update both strands of
the map. But what happened was clear: nearly everyone on Garena
preferred the stack-less map rather than the stack map.
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