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#Post#: 1816--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: Alph4bet
Date: October 7, 2013, 9:42 pm
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I know how, chakra knows how, brandon knows how. But I cbf cause
of the time it'll take(I'll need to dl all the necessary
programs have to import absolutely everything that roc doesn't
have that the map uses). Chakra can do it much faster ^^
#Post#: 1817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: koala
Date: October 8, 2013, 5:33 am
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For a start I think if we are serious about maintaining and
furthering Sheep Tag. We need a public map and private map. The
public map should be a derivative of Sheep Tag Battle made for
hostbots and can be autohosted, that is 5v5 with tips for both
sheep and wolf before the start of each round and a remake after
that gives relevant information (join clan csb/sor/behh @
europe, etc). The private map should have the same terrain we
have now but with some small changes. Apparently Beer messed
with the range and slowed the attack of shepherds? Another issue
is should we keep 2 hit farms or change it back to 3 hit? The
anti-stack stomp ability is great idea but I think needs to be
reworked because right now there is no cast delay and it does
needs a slight one so one wolf can't keep the effect permanently
on sheep or blow or your mana in like 5 seconds. Overall the map
is quite nice, the anti-stack pen at mid is sick and being able
to spawn iron golems to camp is which allows all wolves to be
outside the pen for the most part being relevant. I also really
love the Alternative terrain and it would be awesome if that
could be utilized somehow. ^^
Sheep Tag Battle -
HTML http://www.epicwar.com/maps/137901/
Sheep Tag Alternative 1.2 -
HTML http://www.epicwar.com/maps/141676/
#Post#: 1823--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: HaWkys
Date: October 8, 2013, 5:21 pm
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Okay, let me tell you how sheep tag has worked. We hosted public
games (Sheep Tag Fixus, Grr or some ultimate version) then we
"convert" them to revo. This has worked forever in the past so
why change it? The problem is there are not enough PLAYERS, ye
sure there can be 1 full house, but for a while i haven't seen
any other games. I believe the community would benefit if we all
made a better public game, and then converted them to revo. I am
currently doing that in clan USA and have taught 3 kids the
basics.
#Post#: 1824--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: FaceOfMelinda
Date: October 8, 2013, 5:34 pm
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Hawkens is right here.
Some of you seem to be completely socially retarded in regards
to how new players are brought into sheep tag.
The best way is OBVIOUSLY to host toilet-maps like ROTS, grr,
and other crazy maps. I've said this since 2006 :S
Revo maps are horrible for new players.
#Post#: 1825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: HaWkys
Date: October 8, 2013, 6:31 pm
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Not only are revo maps over there head, the concept is as well.
Its like a book. The first couple pages have to be a hook for
you to read the rest. We have to hook them in with a good public
sheep tag game. In my opinion the best game for that is fixus,
but grr is the most popular. I think we should make a public map
we can all agree on to host sheep tag and recruit players.
#Post#: 1833--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: Alph4bet
Date: October 9, 2013, 2:06 pm
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--- Quote from: FaceOfMelinda link ---
>
> Hawkens is right here.
>
> Some of you seem to be completely socially retarded in regards
to how new players are brought into sheep tag.
>
> The best way is OBVIOUSLY to host toilet-maps like ROTS, grr,
and other crazy maps. I've said this since 2006 :S
>
> Revo maps are horrible for new players.
>
--- End Quote ---
No, lol, SwedishChef have you actually wasted any time in the
teaching of new players? If so, you will find there are two
types(I've worked with both):
1. The time wasters who get introduced to maps like ROTS and
Tuff edition and then only want to play those versions because
they are fun, they aren't interested in the skills of sheep tag,
because in those maps, they don't matter much when you're netted
for 5 seconds etc...
2. The non time wasters who want to learn because you have
showed significant skills. Most of the people I have
taught(There were heaps back in the day, I have no patience for
it anymore) had seen me Run St, and was like WTF? HOW YOU NO
DIE?(Drew hated this lol, cause he doesn't like Run st tbh).
Unfortunately the downside with these people is that they don't
like to wolf, so I had got it in there heads early to learn how,
that wolfing can be fun, when you are showing them that wolfing
can be fun, you need to show them all possible wolf skills and
wolf with them many times to catch the sheep decently early.
Now having said this, we DO need a map that doesn't last
forever, that has the majority of features that Revo has. Where
tricks such as golem jumping is a skill that needs to be
taught/mastered. Back in the day when I did that trick, people
would be like WTF? HOW? Same with mirror jumping.
#Post#: 1839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: Tollison
Date: October 9, 2013, 7:54 pm
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Here is my idea for a good sheep tag map for pros and noobs. I
ask all who want to criticize my ideas to question them in a
practical sense. If I state an idea that you don't agree with
then let's argue both of our theories and ask me questions on
how to make it applicable.
No fog of war for any players. Automatic sheep locators for
both sheep and wolves. Gold should be the only starting
incentives of sheep and wolves considering how many players on
each side. No starting items.
The middle has no fence. Spirits are contained. Spirits are 2
hit. Stacks are allowed in the middle. To negate sheep from
saving: iron golems, images, and cloaks.
The shepherds have mirror imaging as their only ability.
The sheep have these farms: Farm, Upgraded farm, Strong farm,
Tiny farm (also lets make each tiny farm give us a .04 % income
rate increase), Wide farm, Hard farm (edited to be stronger than
the farm we have now.), and the invisible farm.
The map should be transformed to be aesthetically pleasing to
all people. Radiant colors to attract attention, unique
characters etc.
#Post#: 1841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: Alph4bet
Date: October 9, 2013, 11:02 pm
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So Tollison before I go through each point you've made, I'd like
to say this: Remember the map you propose has to keep skill and
add simplicity to new players, as well as showing fancy shit off
without making the map ridiculous(Like RoTs tuff etc...)
--- Quote from: Tollison link ---
>
> No fog of war for any players.
>
--- End Quote ---
I had already agreed with this in your last map suggestion
thread. Back in the day when blizzard actually cared about war3
I would have said no, because map hack isn't as big as a
problem, kids got constantly banned for that(I know, back in
2002 I used it, one of my cdkeys was banned from the game for 6
months lol).
--- Quote from: Tollison link ---
>
> Automatic sheep locators for both sheep and wolves.
>
--- End Quote ---
No, because that would be the equivalent as playing with -view
on. It takes skill from the game that is needed. I know I said
that people map hack etc... But you still shouldn't make it so
that whatever the sheep/shepherd do is seen...
--- Quote from: Tollison link ---
>
> Gold should be the only starting incentives of sheep and
wolves considering how many players on each side. No starting
items.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with trialing this, could be interesting.
--- Quote from: Tollison link ---
>
> The middle has no fence. Spirits are contained. Spirits are
2 hit. Stacks are allowed in the middle. To negate sheep from
saving: iron golems, images, and cloaks.
>
--- End Quote ---
Without some sort of anti stack feature/Wisp regen this could be
very bad. Wolves could get boring real fast.... You have a golem
camping, they just stack which knocks the golem back and you
save gg??
--- Quote from: Tollison link ---
>
> The shepherds have mirror imaging as their only ability.
>
--- End Quote ---
You're getting rid of wards to replace it with the sheep ping?
--- Quote from: Tollison link ---
>
> The sheep have these farms: Farm, Upgraded farm, Strong farm,
Tiny farm (also lets make each tiny farm give us a .04 % income
rate increase), Wide farm, Hard farm (edited to be stronger than
the farm we have now.), and the invisible farm.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah, could do this. The frost farm isn't that op tbh. and if
you get an item such as a necklace then frost farms aren't an
issue, it's just about baiting those wolves into buying one in
the first place.
--- Quote from: Tollison link ---
>
> The map should be transformed to be aesthetically pleasing to
all people. Radiant colors to attract attention, unique
characters etc.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hmmm.... Could, stuff like the dolly's were annoying when you're
trying to mass and all of a sudden that shit flys over lol.
Also my experience with adding stuff like yoshi's etc... is that
it lags the map a bit, I haven't been able to add it succesfully
without adding some sort of delay on it.
#Post#: 1842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: SHEePYTaGGeRNeP
Date: October 10, 2013, 2:10 am
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I'm pretty sure we need wards for the invis farm / invisbility
farm?
Also what alph4bet said, golem mid and just stack seems to be a
free save, unless golems have an inventory you can put a cloak
of flames in.
But sheep colors per sheep ( like RotS ) is very nice for new
players I think.
I think this can work Tolli.
#Post#: 1843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Map Development section
DIR By: FaceOfMelinda
Date: October 10, 2013, 4:19 am
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Shaapgod I like you - you're my amigo - but damn you're insane
:D
If you host revo or some variation of it you're not going to be
catching any new players. The game-play is too complex and the
learning curve too high.
If we instead host toilet-maps like ROTS we don't even need to
put in the effort to recruit - the process is effectively
automatized. Toilets host the maps themselves even. At least in
the past - wc3 may be too dead at this point.
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