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#Post#: 36147--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: Chairman of the Board Date: April 6, 2022, 8:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
just a reminder all- we can certainly have a discussion here on
the forum, but in order to avoid descending into what the rest
of the web looks like (which weve managed to avoid for 10 years)
please be respectful of others and their thoughts and opinions.
#Post#: 36149--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: Redwyn Date: April 6, 2022, 10:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hammertime link=topic=916.msg36146#msg36146
date=1649237938]
[quote author=VA_Seawolf link=topic=916.msg36144#msg36144
date=1649219456]
[quote author=Accelerator link=topic=916.msg36132#msg36132
date=1649172460]
To be quite frank, the "Asian invasion" at Stony Brook is the
big elephant in the room regarding campus life and athletic
culture that no one wants to discuss because of how sensitive
the topic is, but it is one of, if not the, biggest issues the
school has right now.
International Asian students pay out of state tuition, so they
help financially. However, we need to work on attracting US out
of state students bc they contribute more to the culture.
I was around 10 years ago: 41% white, 32% Asian, which checks
out with the eye test from when I was there. This year, 42%
Asian and 38% white. Asians are the majority on campus and
whites are a minority. That is insane. There's no way any FBS or
Power 5 school has an Asian majority and a white minority.
For whatever reason, starting in 2014, Stony Brook became less
appealing to whites and that has only continued to get worse. I
can see a trend: white students who like sports are not going to
want to attend a school with majority Asians who don't know
sports. Each year, less and less white kids come because they're
turned off by the demographics here, and this has the potential
to spiral and get even worse if Stony Brook doesn't nip it in
the bud soon. Asian students are good for academic rankings and
diversity numbers, but is it worth the hit to the school's
social and athletic reputation? This is why most schools have de
facto Asian quotas, where an Asian's SAT score needs to be 150
pts higher than a white's, given everything else equal, to earn
admittance.
African Americans are good for diversity, and they're way more
likely to be fans of college sports. But we don't go after them
(or they don't go after us), since their percentage has declined
lately.
NYC is a highly diverse area, yes, but it isn't 42% Asian and
38% white. No city has those numbers.
[/quote]
This is a touchy subject, but you've given me a lot to think
about with this.
[/quote]
It shouldn't be a touchy subject, but certain political parties
have a way of turning around a meaningful conversation into
something that is racist. For example. Why all of a sudden they
are talking about Asians being targeted and attacked by white
people, when in fact the majority of assaults are committed by
blacks in major metropolitan cities. This is a fact and
statistics are not something I am making up, and this has
nothing to do with people targeting Asians. It has everything to
do with crime in major cities, but certain political groups like
to turn things around to fit their agendas.
People shouldn't be afraid and worried about retaliation when
they talk about a subject that involves race and culture, but
SBU will never, ever, admit that the reason why the student fan
base is shrinking is because of the heavy foreign students based
at Stony Brook University, and this is only going to get worse,
not better. Goes to show you. College really is all about money
for the state, and university, and not about giving the student
the proper education to be successful in the real world.
I suppose we need to address the reason why Asians are attracted
to SBU in the first place. I know for a fact some of it has
everything to do with the mandatory WOKE classes that my son is
forced to take for his Major, which is in Business
administration. And some of these classes have nothing to do
with business but are more about brainwashing students to
believe in something that he or she doesnt want to hear or talk
about. For example.: "Critical race theory" I mean really??
[/quote]
I don't think that CRT has much to do with asian attendance at
SBU, as I don't think national polls have shown that asian
americans strongly support liberal policies. A great example of
this is in NYC, where changes to liberalize magnet school
eligibility prompted massive protests by the asian community. A
similar reaction was seen in San Francisco over school issues.
I don't think that SBU is just asian friendly, it's immigrant
friendly. I don't think they're doing anything specific to
entice this (nor is this a negative in my mind, it's what a
state school should be), but there are a few things that make
this school very attractive to first-generation or lower income
college graduates:
1. It's cheap, but with massive value. We are consistently tops
on return on investment rankings
2. Our best subjects are quant subjects with excellent career
potential, including math/applied math, physics, computer
science, engineering and chemistry. Hell, in some applied math
and physics rankings we're on par with MIT (except approx 40K
cheaper/year). That's probably it gents - the school is really,
really good at launching stable, well paying careers without the
massive overhead of the Ivy League.
3. We are proxy to NYC, which means that weekend jobs supporting
family are possible
That's it. I posit that SBU is doing EXACTLY what state schools
were designed to do. They were NOT built to be athletic
powerhouses. They were built to educate the broadest swath of
students possible.
If SBU wants to change that trajectory, they need to throttle
admissions. I'm pretty sure that's not legal at state schools,
and private schools (aka Harvard) can't seem to pull it off
either. Further, applications to many colleges are on the
downtrend (see - the entire MAAC). I suspect that SBU - given
what it offers - is not victim to that problem and doesn't want
to play with a system that works.
So my feeling is that since you can't change admissions, you can
only change the atmosphere on campus as much as possible and
build the athletic reputation to pull the community and
out-of-state applicants.
#Post#: 36152--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: Chairman of the Board Date: April 6, 2022, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
great post red.
i recall my days at SB that there was more diversity on campus
than there was in NYC. in fact, there also were students from
over 50 different countries (that's like 25% of the globe).
unfortunately, i also recall students only congregating with
students of their own color, and also, somehow the international
students mostly ended up in roosevelt quad (for whatever
reason).
it's normal for the tech-heavy subjects to be bookworms, stay at
home, play video games, go home, etc. that's fine. but i'd
ask- why isnt this an issue at virginia tech? georgia tech?
let's be honest here- from an academic standpoint we are more
like a large state tech school than we are a delaware or rutgers
or umass.
id add that the train running right through campus isnt helpful.
and the island is insular, hard to get off, and its inhabitants
are very demanding, busy, and not as open minded.
lastly- i dont even think out of state students is the answer-
it could simply be get more students from WNY, CNY, cap
district, etc. but those kids dont want to drive 6 hours and/or
through the city.
#Post#: 36164--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: ecasadoSBU Date: April 8, 2022, 9:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't want to single out the Asian-American student population
as one of the main factors why Stony Brook lacks a strong
sports/athletics culture. Because while agree this is among the
factors - it definitely isn't a major factor. I seen it first
hand that Asian-Americans like any demographics can buy into
sports if the conditions are there - Wife attended UConn and
everyone bought into sports no matter who. Go to UConn,
Syracuse, and Rutgers and you will see the Asian-American
community buy into sports. Obviously the racial demographics at
UConn are very different - but in my opinion the real difference
is where you draw your students from.
I think the LIRR and the New York City influence are by far the
main factor that have us in this shitty situation. Lets face it
- most of our kids are from NYC (I think over half of the
student without regard to race). NYC is is a huge "anonymous"
city with zero college athletics culture. Even HS sports isn't a
draw in this large city. I was raised here and played H.S sports
and it had zero influence in my High School days in this major
city.
So to expects kids to all of the sudden buy into and fully adopt
the college sports culture its going to be a challenge when the
majority of our students are from NYC.
Rutgers in the other hand draws primarily from NJ and even
though NJ is indeed part of the New York Metro it is still very
different from NYC and outside of Jersey City/Newark has a
stronger small-town culture where people follow & root for their
H.S teams somewhat similar to Long Island suburbs. UConn's main
draw is Suburban Connecticut.
Syracuse is lucky that it has created a loyal following in
central NY.
That's not to say that UConn/Rutgers/Syracuse have it all
figured out. There is a larger regional college sports apathy
that also affects them. These schools play at the highest level
and their CFB draw is still peanuts compared to other major
schools in the Midwest/southeast. So there is a regional
struggle too on top of everything. Rutgers is in the Big Ten and
struggles to sell out their 50k football stadium while the
Midwestern schools draw far more than that.
Then we face the second major issue that the kids we draw from
the island that do have that small town sports culture are too
close to home and end up going home too on the weekends like
everyone else.
---->
At the end of the day it comes down to the school not placing
enough emphasis in creating a campus environment where it is fun
to stay at SBU over the weekends. We need the frats, the
sororities, the parties, the concerts all working together to
create a good dynamic that promotes school spirit which would
improve the appreciation for athletics. We are far from there to
be honest. We had a good dynamic in 2010-13 which was quickly
taking off until the school pulled the plug on it and destroyed
the forward momentum.
Stony Brook has focused a lot of its resources on becoming a
respected academic institution and we should be proud of that. I
don't crap on the institution for trying to be research heavy
and academically focused. Few (if any) school have climbed the
academic pyramid of higher education in a mere lifetime (65
years). We need to be minded that the school's mission is first
and foremost to educate and to serve as an economic engine of
Long Island. So far it meets both.
Hopefully in the next two decades it can also add serve as a
"cultural engine" to its mission
so... to sum it up:
(1) NYC influence & apathy
(2) Northeast regional apathy overall
(3) Lack of emphasis in campus life/events
(4) Weak fraternity/sorority community
(5) Demographics, international students are probably the 5th on
my list
#Post#: 36166--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: Hammertime Date: April 9, 2022, 5:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=ecasadoSBU link=topic=916.msg36164#msg36164
date=1649470701]
I don't want to single out the Asian-American student population
as one of the main factors why Stony Brook lacks a strong
sports/athletics culture. Because while agree this is among the
factors - it definitely isn't a major factor. I seen it first
hand that Asian-Americans like any demographics can buy into
sports if the conditions are there - Wife attended UConn and
everyone bought into sports no matter who. Go to UConn,
Syracuse, and Rutgers and you will see the Asian-American
community buy into sports. Obviously the racial demographics at
UConn are very different - but in my opinion the real difference
is where you draw your students from.
I think the LIRR and the New York City influence are by far the
main factor that have us in this shitty situation. Lets face it
- most of our kids are from NYC (I think over half of the
student without regard to race). NYC is is a huge "anonymous"
city with zero college athletics culture. Even HS sports isn't a
draw in this large city. I was raised here and played H.S sports
and it had zero influence in my High School days in this major
city.
So to expects kids to all of the sudden buy into and fully adopt
the college sports culture its going to be a challenge when the
majority of our students are from NYC.
Rutgers in the other hand draws primarily from NJ and even
though NJ is indeed part of the New York Metro it is still very
different from NYC and outside of Jersey City/Newark has a
stronger small-town culture where people follow & root for their
H.S teams somewhat similar to Long Island suburbs. UConn's main
draw is Suburban Connecticut.
Syracuse is lucky that it has created a loyal following in
central NY.
That's not to say that UConn/Rutgers/Syracuse have it all
figured out. There is a larger regional college sports apathy
that also affects them. These schools play at the highest level
and their CFB draw is still peanuts compared to other major
schools in the Midwest/southeast. So there is a regional
struggle too on top of everything. Rutgers is in the Big Ten and
struggles to sell out their 50k football stadium while the
Midwestern schools draw far more than that.
Then we face the second major issue that the kids we draw from
the island that do have that small town sports culture are too
close to home and end up going home too on the weekends like
everyone else.
---->
At the end of the day it comes down to the school not placing
enough emphasis in creating a campus environment where it is fun
to stay at SBU over the weekends. We need the frats, the
sororities, the parties, the concerts all working together to
create a good dynamic that promotes school spirit which would
improve the appreciation for athletics. We are far from there to
be honest. We had a good dynamic in 2010-13 which was quickly
taking off until the school pulled the plug on it and destroyed
the forward momentum.
Stony Brook has focused a lot of its resources on becoming a
respected academic institution and we should be proud of that. I
don't crap on the institution for trying to be research heavy
and academically focused. Few (if any) school have climbed the
academic pyramid of higher education in a mere lifetime (65
years). We need to be minded that the school's mission is first
and foremost to educate and to serve as an economic engine of
Long Island. So far it meets both.
Hopefully in the next two decades it can also add serve as a
"cultural engine" to its mission
so... to sum it up:
(1) NYC influence & apathy
(2) Northeast regional apathy overall
(3) Lack of emphasis in campus life/events
(4) Weak fraternity/sorority community
(5) Demographics, international students are probably the 5th on
my list
[/quote]
That's all good stuff you just wrote there ecasadoSBU, but the
fact remains the same. Asians as a whole don't like Football,
Lacrosse, and most other American sports!
I've been a season ticket holder for both football and
basketball, and I can tell you with certainty and confidence
enough to say that from day one. about 12 years now, I can count
on one hand the amount of Asians who attend football, the very
small amount of Asian students and adults who watch SBU
basketball, and zero who attend lacrosse games. So when you have
over 50% of students in a school who are of Asian descent, this
is what is going to happen, and it will only get worse for SBU
sports because of the direction the state/university decided is
best..
I do however agree with you that SBU should not be focusing on
how to make sports more important than academics but should be
focusing on how to make SBU the best academic school in the
country. If bringing in more international students to the
school will help to achieve this, then fine. Go for it. But keep
in mind. American-born students are taking notice and will avoid
SBU for other college universities. MY son chose SBU because he
didn't want to financially burden his parents or himself with
high college bills. but he hates this school with a passion. He
feels like the third wheel. Nobody talks to each other, it's
just so cold inside
#Post#: 36170--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: Accelerator Date: April 9, 2022, 11:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There's got to be a way that we can extend our reach to European
college students. I knew a bunch from Denmark, Sweden, Germany,
etc who came here for a semester or two and wanted to go to
college football games at Stony Brook so badly because they had
heard about how vital it was to the American experience. None of
the Asian internationals, who stayed here for all 4 years,
expressed any of that interest.
Asian Americans and internationals do a lot of good for this
school academically/financially in the latter, no doubt, but
like I said, is it worth the trade-off in every other category?
I don't know.
#Post#: 36173--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: ecasadoSBU Date: April 9, 2022, 12:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hammertime link=topic=916.msg36166#msg36166
date=1649500608]
[quote author=ecasadoSBU link=topic=916.msg36164#msg36164
date=1649470701]
I don't want to single out the Asian-American student population
as one of the main factors why Stony Brook lacks a strong
sports/athletics culture. Because while agree this is among the
factors - it definitely isn't a major factor. I seen it first
hand that Asian-Americans like any demographics can buy into
sports if the conditions are there - Wife attended UConn and
everyone bought into sports no matter who. Go to UConn,
Syracuse, and Rutgers and you will see the Asian-American
community buy into sports. Obviously the racial demographics at
UConn are very different - but in my opinion the real difference
is where you draw your students from.
I think the LIRR and the New York City influence are by far the
main factor that have us in this shitty situation. Lets face it
- most of our kids are from NYC (I think over half of the
student without regard to race). NYC is is a huge "anonymous"
city with zero college athletics culture. Even HS sports isn't a
draw in this large city. I was raised here and played H.S sports
and it had zero influence in my High School days in this major
city.
So to expects kids to all of the sudden buy into and fully adopt
the college sports culture its going to be a challenge when the
majority of our students are from NYC.
Rutgers in the other hand draws primarily from NJ and even
though NJ is indeed part of the New York Metro it is still very
different from NYC and outside of Jersey City/Newark has a
stronger small-town culture where people follow & root for their
H.S teams somewhat similar to Long Island suburbs. UConn's main
draw is Suburban Connecticut.
Syracuse is lucky that it has created a loyal following in
central NY.
That's not to say that UConn/Rutgers/Syracuse have it all
figured out. There is a larger regional college sports apathy
that also affects them. These schools play at the highest level
and their CFB draw is still peanuts compared to other major
schools in the Midwest/southeast. So there is a regional
struggle too on top of everything. Rutgers is in the Big Ten and
struggles to sell out their 50k football stadium while the
Midwestern schools draw far more than that.
Then we face the second major issue that the kids we draw from
the island that do have that small town sports culture are too
close to home and end up going home too on the weekends like
everyone else.
---->
At the end of the day it comes down to the school not placing
enough emphasis in creating a campus environment where it is fun
to stay at SBU over the weekends. We need the frats, the
sororities, the parties, the concerts all working together to
create a good dynamic that promotes school spirit which would
improve the appreciation for athletics. We are far from there to
be honest. We had a good dynamic in 2010-13 which was quickly
taking off until the school pulled the plug on it and destroyed
the forward momentum.
Stony Brook has focused a lot of its resources on becoming a
respected academic institution and we should be proud of that. I
don't crap on the institution for trying to be research heavy
and academically focused. Few (if any) school have climbed the
academic pyramid of higher education in a mere lifetime (65
years). We need to be minded that the school's mission is first
and foremost to educate and to serve as an economic engine of
Long Island. So far it meets both.
Hopefully in the next two decades it can also add serve as a
"cultural engine" to its mission
so... to sum it up:
(1) NYC influence & apathy
(2) Northeast regional apathy overall
(3) Lack of emphasis in campus life/events
(4) Weak fraternity/sorority community
(5) Demographics, international students are probably the 5th on
my list
[/quote]
That's all good stuff you just wrote there ecasadoSBU, but the
fact remains the same. Asians as a whole don't like Football,
Lacrosse, and most other American sports!
I've been a season ticket holder for both football and
basketball, and I can tell you with certainty and confidence
enough to say that from day one. about 12 years now, I can count
on one hand the amount of Asians who attend football, the very
small amount of Asian students and adults who watch SBU
basketball, and zero who attend lacrosse games. So when you have
over 50% of students in a school who are of Asian descent, this
is what is going to happen, and it will only get worse for SBU
sports because of the direction the state/university decided is
best..
I do however agree with you that SBU should not be focusing on
how to make sports more important than academics but should be
focusing on how to make SBU the best academic school in the
country. If bringing in more international students to the
school will help to achieve this, then fine. Go for it. But keep
in mind. American-born students are taking notice and will avoid
SBU for other college universities. MY son chose SBU because he
didn't want to financially burden his parents or himself with
high college bills. but he hates this school with a passion. He
feels like the third wheel. Nobody talks to each other, it's
just so cold inside
[/quote]
The thing is Hammertime is that I don't disagree with you in
regards to Asian-American apathy regarding sports. But we can
say that about any other group other than native born Americans.
For example - I'm a native of the Dominican Republic (born
abroad). We don't know crap about American football. We are a
baseball first country. So are Puerto Ricans and Cubans who both
love baseball. Meanwhile, most other Hispanics are soccer first.
Asians see sports more as a discipline than as recreation - but
they still play them and advocate them. I have Korean friends at
SBU that were hardc0re soccer players. So what I'm trying to say
is that if you create the right conditions we can get everyone
on board. At the end of the day if you make it fun other kids
will buy in and try to fit in with the rest of the crowd.
Look at my anedoctal example - I first started following college
football/NFL my freshman year of college as my hall-mates would
always have open-door Sundays to watch games. I bought in big
time into the sport and now support the Seawolves ever since.
What I'm trying to say is that while it is true there is overall
apathy for sports by the Asian-American community at SBU right
now, it doesn't have to be like that if the school makes moves
to change that apathy. Its up to the school to create that
culture. Work with students to create grassroot organizations
for student life, bring in the frats, give them designated
tailgating spaces, etc.
If you were around back in 2010-12 we had that positive momentum
going. Kids were coming to games in droves and then the school
pulled the plugs - restricted frat/sor parties, started charging
for parking spaces in main lot, and killed the momentum that we
were gaining. That year I was able to get a group of friends to
tailgate for like three games, that was the first time ever I
got them to do that. I thought we had finally arrived. and then
it all fell apart thanks to the anti-fun University policies.
Like I said the only solution is for the school to put the work
and money to improve conditions - blocking/reducing
Asian-Americans from enrolling which would be illegal and
unethical and hurt the school's academic reputation/mission
which would do more harm than good
I really enjoyed my time at Stony Brook. Maybe because it was
the first time I had left the hood (Bronx) and found good people
to be sorrounded with. I still keep up with like 20 or friends
from Stony Brook. We even have a whatsapp group where we chat
all the time and meet up every once in a while. Not gonna that
the group is extremely diverse - Asian, White, Hispanic, Indian,
Black. But we all got together freshmen year and have become
great friends every since. I think dealing with cultural
diversity is not easy at first, but if you keep an open-mind it
is amazing to meet people from all walks of life and you can
really learn a lot from them. For me it was fascinating after
growing up in the inner-city and not being exposed to people
from other places
#Post#: 36178--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: Hammertime Date: April 9, 2022, 2:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Accelerator link=topic=916.msg36170#msg36170
date=1649521389]
There's got to be a way that we can extend our reach to European
college students. I knew a bunch from Denmark, Sweden, Germany,
etc who came here for a semester or two and wanted to go to
college football games at Stony Brook so badly because they had
heard about how vital it was to the American experience. None of
the Asian internationals, who stayed here for all 4 years,
expressed any of that interest.
Asian Americans and internationals do a lot of good for this
school academically/financially in the latter, no doubt, but
like I said, is it worth the trade-off in every other category?
I don't know.
[/quote]
Try to remember what school you are talking about. Now that
Hochul is declaring SBU a Flagship school. A 100% of the
school's attention will be on academics, research, grants,
etc... Nobody cares about sports at SBU anymore. Including NYS.
I am not joking when I tell you guys SBU should, and I predict
will go back to D3. As they should.
#Post#: 36180--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: ecasadoSBU Date: April 9, 2022, 3:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hammertime link=topic=916.msg36178#msg36178
date=1649531979]
[quote author=Accelerator link=topic=916.msg36170#msg36170
date=1649521389]
There's got to be a way that we can extend our reach to European
college students. I knew a bunch from Denmark, Sweden, Germany,
etc who came here for a semester or two and wanted to go to
college football games at Stony Brook so badly because they had
heard about how vital it was to the American experience. None of
the Asian internationals, who stayed here for all 4 years,
expressed any of that interest.
Asian Americans and internationals do a lot of good for this
school academically/financially in the latter, no doubt, but
like I said, is it worth the trade-off in every other category?
I don't know.
[/quote]
Try to remember what school you are talking about. Now that
Hochul is declaring SBU a Flagship school. A 100% of the
school's attention will be on academics, research, grants,
etc... Nobody cares about sports at SBU anymore. Including NYS.
I am not joking when I tell you guys SBU should, and I predict
will go back to D3. As they should.
[/quote]
Nah man. Lets keep optimistic boys.
We are the few and the proud! We need to keep the optimism alive
in this chat and get more people involved in Seawolves
athletics!!
If anything - the flagship label (we were a flagship de facto
anyway) should only give us more resources and attention from a
larger pool of students nationwide.
#Post#: 36181--------------------------------------------------
Re: CAA all sports???
By: Hammertime Date: April 9, 2022, 6:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=ecasadoSBU link=topic=916.msg36180#msg36180
date=1649537151]
[quote author=Hammertime link=topic=916.msg36178#msg36178
date=1649531979]
[quote author=Accelerator link=topic=916.msg36170#msg36170
date=1649521389]
There's got to be a way that we can extend our reach to European
college students. I knew a bunch from Denmark, Sweden, Germany,
etc who came here for a semester or two and wanted to go to
college football games at Stony Brook so badly because they had
heard about how vital it was to the American experience. None of
the Asian internationals, who stayed here for all 4 years,
expressed any of that interest.
Asian Americans and internationals do a lot of good for this
school academically/financially in the latter, no doubt, but
like I said, is it worth the trade-off in every other category?
I don't know.
[/quote]
Try to remember what school you are talking about. Now that
Hochul is declaring SBU a Flagship school. A 100% of the
school's attention will be on academics, research, grants,
etc... Nobody cares about sports at SBU anymore. Including NYS.
I am not joking when I tell you guys SBU should, and I predict
will go back to D3. As they should.
[/quote]
Nah man. Lets keep optimistic boys.
We are the few and the proud! We need to keep the optimism alive
in this chat and get more people involved in Seawolves
athletics!!
If anything - the flagship label (we were a flagship de facto
anyway) should only give us more resources and attention from a
larger pool of students nationwide.
[/quote]
I'm still doing my part as a fan.
*****************************************************
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