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#Post#: 29169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: guest369
Date: January 30, 2020, 4:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, the college baseball run was the defining moment of our
entire athletic history at this point. If college baseball was
as cared about as March Madness, we’d be UMBC-infamous right
now, because holy crap that was huge. The first NE school to
make it to the CWS in 35 years, we were literally opening
SportsCenter, front page of the New York Times sports section,
etc
Beating that LSU team was monumental. Their ace was AARON NOLA.
Their 2nd pitcher was KEVIN GAUSMAN. Both of those were top 10
picks in the MLB draft. And us, good ol’ Stony Brook University,
eliminated them from the tournament. A pitching staff anchored
by Aaron Nola and Kevin Gausman lost to a team with one MLB
player, Travis Jankowski. That’s insane and if we were given the
profile it could have made us a household name. Sadly, college
baseball isn’t as big as hoops or football. LSU fans still think
of us the way UVA fans think of UMBC, or Michigan fans think of
App State.
#Post#: 29170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: Chairman of the Board
Date: January 30, 2020, 5:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Moveitfred link ---
>
> [quote author=Chairman of the Board
link=topic=828.msg29158#msg29158 date=1580401921]
>
> now tell me why- with all the talent and facilities- we've
secured one NCAA bid. but a lot of 25 win seasons.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
For whatever it's worth, my answer is either: A) Dumb Luck or B)
Dumb Misfortune.
I put this in the realm of philosophical question (in a mostly
non-philosophical world of sport), and I admit to thinking about
it too as a long-time member of the community and SBU sports
attendee.
Seems we are naturally conditioned to thinking that if we want
an outcome we just need to put together the concrete pieces to
reach that outcome. If we can do A (talent) + B (facilities) + C
(whatever else) we will = regular success.
Seawolves United suggests this, right? Send us money and we'll
be better. And I'll be the first to admit, maybe that's true.
Heck I don't know.
But what if....
You do A, B, and C and = no change? What if, as the saying goes,
it (SBU sports in this case) is what it is. Isn't that equally
possible, even probable? I know this idea is outside what many
probably like to admit or think, but I wonder. Think about it
next time SH pitches you for a check! ;D
The reality is SBU is in a one-bid conference with a bunch of
schools that are ALL recruiting the same 2-star recruits. Maybe
you get lucky for a year or a time and get a Warney or a Lyles
or a Lamb, but other than that everyone is pretty much the same
despite what we'd like to think. And all coaches are pretty good
and all are working pretty hard. Not much difference.
This has been said many times and comes down as the key in my
mind: nothing will probably ever change beyond dumb
luck/misfortune in a one-bid conference for SBU until and if
they move into a "better" conference. Simple as that. And I
wouldn't begin to know the desire or politics for that to
happen.
But maybe with regard to men's basketball there is one more
lingering and maddening question: So then why is UVM ALWAYS the
best team until they're not? Admit it, drives us all crazy,
right? Why can't we be like them (and, yeah, admittedly take our
lumps losing the championship once in awhile, but we'd love to
always be in the championship)?
I have no idea beyond this isolated and personal experience: I
have a child who was a recent college athlete (completely
unrelated sport) who was recruited by AE schools. She didn't go
to an AE school, but if she had? Easy, and we (athlete, mom,
dad...) were all onboard with the same school: UVM. Easy
decision for many reasons having to do with the broader aspects
of school and environment beyond the sport.
Have a hunch that might be something that gives UVM the edge.
Sorry SBU, but maybe it just is what it is.
[/quote]
GB- i agree.
Checkie- i agree. i'll lay $ down that next game, or the one
after that, or after that- garcia drives the hoop and scores an
easy 2. and then after 4man calms down he'll do the same. then
miles. then mo and ola. then at some point, 4man will start
hitting threes, ola, etc.
Fred- i think it's fair to say SB is a material underperformer-
given the facilities and state cash. drop IFCU in guilderland,
NY with our infrastructure and it'd be lights out- in fact, for
many sports, albany has beaten us pretty good- with less funding
and facilities. this is why they have a chip on their shoulder-
they do more with less (Vt too). we do less with more- as
compared to our peers. but yes i agree with the larger point in
your post.
#Post#: 29171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: Chairman of the Board
Date: January 30, 2020, 5:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: OldSeawolf link ---
>
> We all like winning, but I’ll put things in perspective for
some of you young guys. I went to SBU from late 1970’s to early
1980’s; hence, my moniker “OldSeawolf”. Back in the olden days
we were D3 in every sport except for squash (D1) and football
(club team). We played football on a parcel of land just south
of North P-lot and had a single bleacher for fans. We played
basketball in an old dusty gym (the Pritchard prior to its
renovations). I couldn’t tell you who our AD was or even if we
had one. Our only athletic claim to fame was an appearance in
the men’s b-ball D3 Final 4 (yes, national), and our #1 national
ranking in D3 the following year for most of the year, before
being upset in the first round of the NCAA tourney.
>
> I never could have dreamed back then that we’d have gorgeous
basketball and football facilities, and even a great baseball
complex. Being division 1? Never in my wildest dreams.
>
> My point is that athletically we have come a long, long way.
The AD’s and the school administrators have done a fantastic job
growing athletics and putting us on the map. Can we achieve even
bigger things from this point? Perhaps. A SUNY budget does have
limiting factors, in terms of how much we can spend on coaches
and staff, scholarships, etc. I am optimistic though, that we
will continue to do better things. The seeds have been planted.
>
--- End Quote ---
oldie- thanks for the context- for the record no one is denying
this, i think the argument is merely that we are sometimes
outpaced by our peers, no?
#Post#: 29173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: OldSeawolf
Date: January 31, 2020, 6:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Chairman of the Board link ---
>
> oldie- thanks for the context- for the record no one is
denying this, i think the argument is merely that we are
sometimes outpaced by our peers, no?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I strayed a bit from the conversation, but I'll add here
that I think the difference between winning and losing is made
up of a lot of things. But I really think it starts/ends at the
top with the coach. And since most of the AE teams have pretty
much the same coaching budget, it comes down to choice of coach
by the AD. Over the years, I've followed men's baseball,
basketball, and football the most. Here is my critique of each,
as it pertains to coaching, and how it has impacted the
programs:
BASEBALL - I think Senk has done a great job. I believe it's 5
AE titles and NCAA appearances, with of course, the amazing 2012
run. I think he's done his job overall quite well, winning us a
decent # of titles within the conference. Anyone who is anyone
doesn't come to play baseball in the northeast, but all
conference members suffer from that fate. Given that, our run
in 2012 was even more amazing - that we were able to compete
with the big boys with a Northeast roster. Overall, Coach Senk
has done the best job possible, IMO.
FOOTBALL - While we have fared very well some years, and have
won a few playoff games (wins over Villanova and UA stand out to
me), I have to say that we've been hampered by doing better
overall with our coaching. I feel that Coach Priore has hurt
the team with his time management and ultra-conservative (and at
times, head-scratching) play calling. Here, I think a stronger
coach would have produced better overall results.
BASKETBALL - I know some of you will disagree with me here.
First, I think Pikiell was a major upgrade over Macarchuk.
Pikiell was a good guy, a great ambassador for SBU, and an
excellent recruiter. Although he put up some improved and solid
season #'s, he failed to win an appropriate # of title games (he
was 1-4). If it wasn't for Warney and overcoming a 13 (I
believe) point half-time deficit, it would have been 0-5.
Despite being undermanned at BostonU, we blew an 18 (I believe)
point 2nd half lead to lose (inexcusable). At UA, we were dealt
the dagger by Hooley in a game that we held the edge the entire
way, and folded at the end. And then there were 2 HOME games
vs. UVM and UA, where we had the major home field advantage, and
didn't show up either game. Pikiell was a good coach, but not a
great X's and O's guy and game manager, IMO. Really didn't know
how to win the big game. It'll be very interesting to see how
Rutgers fares in the tournament this year. Todd Boals folded
like a pup tent in the QF last year, and unfortunately for him
and us, that is his legacy. That was clearly coaching all the
way. The jury is still out on Geno, as this final script still
needs to be written.
For comparison in basketball, like him or not, Will Brown is a
superior coach to anyone we've had. He's won a proportionate
amount of titles relative to tenure. Same can be said for John
Becker, and his predecessors. It's not an accident that their
teams have won more titles than us. They have had superior
coaches; bottom line.
Coaching matters.
#Post#: 29174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: Hammertime
Date: January 31, 2020, 6:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: OldSeawolf link ---
>
> [quote author=Chairman of the Board
link=topic=828.msg29171#msg29171 date=1580427419]
> oldie- thanks for the context- for the record no one is
denying this, i think the argument is merely that we are
sometimes outpaced by our peers, no?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I strayed a bit from the conversation, but I'll add here
that I think the difference between winning and losing is made
up of a lot of things. But I really think it starts/ends at the
top with the coach. And since most of the AE teams have pretty
much the same coaching budget, it comes down to choice of coach
by the AD. Over the years, I've followed men's baseball,
basketball, and football the most. Here is my critique of each,
as it pertains to coaching, and how it has impacted the
programs:
BASEBALL - I think Senk has done a great job. I believe it's 5
AE titles and NCAA appearances, with of course, the amazing 2012
run. I think he's done his job overall quite well, winning us a
decent # of titles within the conference. Anyone who is anyone
doesn't come to play baseball in the northeast, but all
conference members suffer from that fate. Given that, our run
in 2012 was even more amazing - that we were able to compete
with the big boys with a Northeast roster. Overall, Coach Senk
has done the best job possible, IMO.
FOOTBALL - While we have fared very well some years, and have
won a few playoff games (wins over Villanova and UA stand out to
me), I have to say that we've been hampered by doing better
overall with our coaching. I feel that Coach Priore has hurt
the team with his time management and ultra-conservative (and at
times, head-scratching) play calling. Here, I think a stronger
coach would have produced better overall results.
BASKETBALL - I know some of you will disagree with me here.
First, I think Pikiell was a major upgrade over Macarchuk.
Pikiell was a good guy, a great ambassador for SBU, and an
excellent recruiter. Although he put up some improved and solid
season #'s, he failed to win an appropriate # of title games (he
was 1-4). If it wasn't for Warney and overcoming a 13 (I
believe) point half-time deficit, it would have been 0-5.
Despite being undermanned at BostonU, we blew an 18 (I believe)
point 2nd half lead to lose (inexcusable). At UA, we were dealt
the dagger by Hooley in a game that we held the edge the entire
way, and folded at the end. And then there were 2 HOME games
vs. UVM and UA, where we had the major home field advantage, and
didn't show up either game. Pikiell was a good coach, but not a
great X's and O's guy and game manager, IMO. Really didn't know
how to win the big game. It'll be very interesting to see how
Rutgers fares in the tournament this year. Todd Boals folded
like a pup tent in the QF last year, and unfortunately for him
and us, that is his legacy. That was clearly coaching all the
way. The jury is still out on Geno, as this final script still
needs to be written.
For comparison in basketball, like him or not, Will Brown is a
superior coach to anyone we've had. He's won a proportionate
amount of titles relative to tenure. Same can be said for John
Becker, and his predecessors. It's not an accident that their
teams have won more titles than us. They have had superior
coaches; bottom line.
Coaching matters.
[/quote]
I totally agree on all fronts. This is 50% of SB problems,
coaching. The other 50% has to do with the CAA and AE
conference. If SB wants to make a name for itself in Athletics,
they need to try and get an invite into a bigger name, highly
respected conference. I think SB would be best suited in the MAC
east conference for all sports. Not a highly respected
conference but a conference that is doable and a good start for
SB..But that is news for another day..
#Post#: 29175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: OldSeawolf
Date: January 31, 2020, 6:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hammertime link ---
>
>
> I totally agree on all fronts. This is 50% of SB problems,
coaching. The other 50% has to do with the CAA and AE
conference. If SB wants to make a name for itself in Athletics,
they need to try and get an invite into a bigger name, highly
respected conference. I think SB would be best suited in the MAC
east conference for all sports. Not a highly respected
conference but a conference that is doable and a good start for
SB..But that is news for another day..
>
--- End Quote ---
Regarding Conference upgrade, I'm assuming that you're talking
the MAAC. In basketball right now, KenPom ranks the MAAC at
23/32 conferences, where the AE is at 25/32. To me, spending
the money and effort to move to the MAAC, is not worth the
returns. If we are planning on moving at some point, I think
the most logical move would be a jump to the A10, which is
ranked 9/32 by Kenpom. Much bigger jump, much more prestigious,
and would be worth the $ and effort, IMO. The CAA, ranked
18/32, would be a smaller, safer move, but I'm sure Hofstra
would try and veto that.
#Post#: 29176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: Chairman of the Board
Date: January 31, 2020, 7:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: OldSeawolf link ---
>
> [quote author=Chairman of the Board
link=topic=828.msg29171#msg29171 date=1580427419]
> oldie- thanks for the context- for the record no one is
denying this, i think the argument is merely that we are
sometimes outpaced by our peers, no?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I strayed a bit from the conversation, but I'll add here
that I think the difference between winning and losing is made
up of a lot of things. But I really think it starts/ends at the
top with the coach. And since most of the AE teams have pretty
much the same coaching budget, it comes down to choice of coach
by the AD. Over the years, I've followed men's baseball,
basketball, and football the most. Here is my critique of each,
as it pertains to coaching, and how it has impacted the
programs:
BASEBALL - I think Senk has done a great job. I believe it's 5
AE titles and NCAA appearances, with of course, the amazing 2012
run. I think he's done his job overall quite well, winning us a
decent # of titles within the conference. Anyone who is anyone
doesn't come to play baseball in the northeast, but all
conference members suffer from that fate. Given that, our run
in 2012 was even more amazing - that we were able to compete
with the big boys with a Northeast roster. Overall, Coach Senk
has done the best job possible, IMO.
FOOTBALL - While we have fared very well some years, and have
won a few playoff games (wins over Villanova and UA stand out to
me), I have to say that we've been hampered by doing better
overall with our coaching. I feel that Coach Priore has hurt
the team with his time management and ultra-conservative (and at
times, head-scratching) play calling. Here, I think a stronger
coach would have produced better overall results.
BASKETBALL - I know some of you will disagree with me here.
First, I think Pikiell was a major upgrade over Macarchuk.
Pikiell was a good guy, a great ambassador for SBU, and an
excellent recruiter. Although he put up some improved and solid
season #'s, he failed to win an appropriate # of title games (he
was 1-4). If it wasn't for Warney and overcoming a 13 (I
believe) point half-time deficit, it would have been 0-5.
Despite being undermanned at BostonU, we blew an 18 (I believe)
point 2nd half lead to lose (inexcusable). At UA, we were dealt
the dagger by Hooley in a game that we held the edge the entire
way, and folded at the end. And then there were 2 HOME games
vs. UVM and UA, where we had the major home field advantage, and
didn't show up either game. Pikiell was a good coach, but not a
great X's and O's guy and game manager, IMO. Really didn't know
how to win the big game. It'll be very interesting to see how
Rutgers fares in the tournament this year. Todd Boals folded
like a pup tent in the QF last year, and unfortunately for him
and us, that is his legacy. That was clearly coaching all the
way. The jury is still out on Geno, as this final script still
needs to be written.
For comparison in basketball, like him or not, Will Brown is a
superior coach to anyone we've had. He's won a proportionate
amount of titles relative to tenure. Same can be said for John
Becker, and his predecessors. It's not an accident that their
teams have won more titles than us. They have had superior
coaches; bottom line.
Coaching matters.
[/quote]
thanks oldie! agree with your analysis, and especially pikiell
being an improvement. he's really catching his stride now in a
much stronger conference.
#Post#: 29177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: Chairman of the Board
Date: January 31, 2020, 7:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Green Baron link ---
>
> Outside of just “outspending our competitors” I don’t know
what else we can do to push us higher.
>
--- End Quote ---
if we arent talking about student life- we are just spinning our
wheels on this topic. see checkie's post on umass.
#Post#: 29178--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: Checkmate
Date: January 31, 2020, 8:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: OldSeawolf link ---
>
> [quote author=Chairman of the Board
link=topic=828.msg29171#msg29171 date=1580427419]
> oldie- thanks for the context- for the record no one is
denying this, i think the argument is merely that we are
sometimes outpaced by our peers, no?
>
--- End Quote ---
BASKETBALL - I know some of you will disagree with me here.
First, I think Pikiell was a major upgrade over Macarchuk.
Pikiell was a good guy, a great ambassador for SBU, and an
excellent recruiter. Although he put up some improved and solid
season #'s, he failed to win an appropriate # of title games (he
was 1-4). If it wasn't for Warney and overcoming a 13 (I
believe) point half-time deficit, it would have been 0-5.
Despite being undermanned at BostonU, we blew an 18 (I believe)
point 2nd half lead to lose (inexcusable). At UA, we were dealt
the dagger by Hooley in a game that we held the edge the entire
way, and folded at the end. And then there were 2 HOME games
vs. UVM and UA, where we had the major home field advantage, and
didn't show up either game. Pikiell was a good coach, but not a
great X's and O's guy and game manager, IMO. Really didn't know
how to win the big game. It'll be very interesting to see how
Rutgers fares in the tournament this year. Todd Boals folded
like a pup tent in the QF last year, and unfortunately for him
and us, that is his legacy. That was clearly coaching all the
way. The jury is still out on Geno, as this final script still
needs to be written.
[/quote]
JEFF Boals 🤣
Stay CAA for football, Atlantic 10 for everything else. This
region can't support FBS football.
#Post#: 29179--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 22: at UMass Lowell, 1/29 7pm
DIR By: Hammertime
Date: January 31, 2020, 9:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: OldSeawolf link ---
>
> [quote author=Hammertime link=topic=828.msg29174#msg29174
date=1580472691]
>
> I totally agree on all fronts. This is 50% of SB problems,
coaching. The other 50% has to do with the CAA and AE
conference. If SB wants to make a name for itself in Athletics,
they need to try and get an invite into a bigger name, highly
respected conference. I think SB would be best suited in the MAC
east conference for all sports. Not a highly respected
conference but a conference that is doable and a good start for
SB..But that is news for another day..
>
--- End Quote ---
Regarding Conference upgrade, I'm assuming that you're talking
the MAAC. In basketball right now, KenPom ranks the MAAC at
23/32 conferences, where the AE is at 25/32. To me, spending
the money and effort to move to the MAAC, is not worth the
returns. If we are planning on moving at some point, I think
the most logical move would be a jump to the A10, which is
ranked 9/32 by Kenpom. Much bigger jump, much more prestigious,
and would be worth the $ and effort, IMO. The CAA, ranked
18/32, would be a smaller, safer move, but I'm sure Hofstra
would try and veto that.
[/quote]
Nope. Not MAAC, MAC....
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