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#Post#: 30607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: Chairman of the Board Date: June 4, 2020, 8:47 am
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i have to agree.
also- i think our geographic location is probably is single
biggest setback.
#Post#: 30610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: NoVA_Seawolf Date: June 5, 2020, 12:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chairman of the Board
link=topic=602.msg30607#msg30607 date=1591278460]
i have to agree.
also- i think our geographic location is probably is single
biggest setback.
[/quote]
Howso? SBU is the best public university option for all of the
kids in NYC and LI. That's a population base of over 11M to pull
students from with one of the world's most significant cities
right there. How in the world is that a setback compared to
those cities upstate that are seeing their populations decline?
#Post#: 30611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: Chairman of the Board Date: June 5, 2020, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
its a good question.
firstly- how can it be a good location when such a large portion
of LIers won't attend SB, but would rather go to Buff/Bing/ua?
secondly, we are isolated. LI is a bubble, full stop. hard to
get to. traffic. hard to get out. high prices. difficult
people. scarce open space. not gown-friendly. it's the reason
you see LIers go up to bingo but not bingo kids down to LI.
rinse/repeat with another upstate region. add that to #1, and
we lose across the board.
while we are on the topic. LIers arent the easiest to get along
with. because it's insular. ask an SB grad from a different
region how that feels. it's part of the reason those students
last two semesters and split.
we say we are NY-accessible, but we all know it's really not.
2hrs on the train, or deal with 90min of driving and good luck
finding/paying for parking, college kids!
realistically, the large population we draw off of is LI,
queens, brooklyn, bronx. none of which either have strong
sports (relatively speaking), nor care about sports.
add to that- that each one of those kids CAN and most WILL go
home every weekend.
because of the train. geography.
and the campus is in the middle of affluent suburbs. it hinders
off campus housing; college kids cannot afford an 800k house
with 25k in taxes. so they stay home, stay in the miserably
overfilled dorms, or move to selden, PJ, mt. sinai, nowhere near
campus. the student population is thus fragmented. don't give
them any reason not to show up to something. with all the
distractions and technology today. add in a car, designated
driver, parking, traffic, and time. time away from laptops and
chargers.
the campus also is just not designed well. there's no
congregation area. there's nothing open on weekends. no actual
houses on campus. no one is there. and then it becomes
cyclical, feeding off itself. this may never change and it's a
shame.
i think the only real solution here- and it's a long term one-
is twofold. they really need private industry to come in and
build houses and a college town with a scene (and it needs to be
done correctly). secondly, they need to get away from this
enrollment of local kids who just go home on thursday afternoons
and return monday. use the excelsior program, take in kids from
the cap district, southern tier, CNY, ADK, WNY. free money,
more contribution to the community.
all you need to do is spend a saturday night up in guilderland
and you'll quickly see why they will eclipse us. if they
haven't already.
HTML http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/
(and i didnt even get into what the campus looks like, it's lack
of history, tradition, spirit, and the indifferent faculty)
#Post#: 30612--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: guest369 Date: June 5, 2020, 3:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
People don’t like it when I speak badly about people who go home
on the weekends. They tell me I shouldn’t tell other people what
to do with their lives. Well, I will, because what you’re doing
is actively harming the university.
We need our new president to be forceful and ruthless, stopping
at nothing to get what is good for our schools. Construct more
housing and give a middle finger to the local residents who
oppose it. Publicly talk down on commuting and going home on the
weekend because that’s not what real college students do. Make
going to athletic events a command, where you will feel left out
if you don’t go. Force and leadership is necessary.
#Post#: 30613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: Hammertime Date: June 6, 2020, 4:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chairman of the Board
link=topic=602.msg30611#msg30611 date=1591381260]
its a good question.
firstly- how can it be a good location when such a large portion
of LIers won't attend SB, but would rather go to Buff/Bing/ua?
secondly, we are isolated. LI is a bubble, full stop. hard to
get to. traffic. hard to get out. high prices. difficult
people. scarce open space. not gown-friendly. it's the reason
you see LIers go up to bingo but not bingo kids down to LI.
rinse/repeat with another upstate region. add that to #1, and
we lose across the board.
while we are on the topic. LIers arent the easiest to get along
with. because it's insular. ask an SB grad from a different
region how that feels. it's part of the reason those students
last two semesters and split.
we say we are NY-accessible, but we all know it's really not.
2hrs on the train, or deal with 90min of driving and good luck
finding/paying for parking, college kids!
realistically, the large population we draw off of is LI,
queens, brooklyn, bronx. none of which either have strong
sports (relatively speaking), nor care about sports.
add to that- that each one of those kids CAN and most WILL go
home every weekend.
because of the train. geography.
and the campus is in the middle of affluent suburbs. it hinders
off campus housing; college kids cannot afford an 800k house
with 25k in taxes. so they stay home, stay in the miserably
overfilled dorms, or move to selden, PJ, mt. sinai, nowhere near
campus. the student population is thus fragmented. don't give
them any reason not to show up to something. with all the
distractions and technology today. add in a car, designated
driver, parking, traffic, and time. time away from laptops and
chargers.
the campus also is just not designed well. there's no
congregation area. there's nothing open on weekends. no actual
houses on campus. no one is there. and then it becomes
cyclical, feeding off itself. this may never change and it's a
shame.
i think the only real solution here- and it's a long term one-
is twofold. they really need private industry to come in and
build houses and a college town with a scene (and it needs to be
done correctly). secondly, they need to get away from this
enrollment of local kids who just go home on thursday afternoons
and return monday. use the excelsior program, take in kids from
the cap district, southern tier, CNY, ADK, WNY. free money,
more contribution to the community.
all you need to do is spend a saturday night up in guilderland
and you'll quickly see why they will eclipse us. if they
haven't already.
HTML http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/
(and i didnt even get into what the campus looks like, it's lack
of history, tradition, spirit, and the indifferent faculty)
[/quote]
Spot on Chairman. Well said.
May I add one more thing. You wont say it but I will.
You have to realize, even if SB found away to keep the majority
of students on campus for the weekend they still won't be
attending any football and BB games. Almost 50% of Stony Brook
students are of International descent. They don't care about
American sports. They are only here to learn our way of life.
Learn our engineering, our business, then take it back to their
country to steal our innovations and technology..( I had to say
that Chair). But seriously. They start up manufacturing in Asia
and sell our products back to us. All this because of our very
good education system in America.
Bottom line. I've come to the conclusion, after over 10 years of
attending SB sports, this University will never, ever be like a
Syracuse, a Penn State, Rutgers, or even a B.C.
#Post#: 30614--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: NoVA_Seawolf Date: June 7, 2020, 5:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hammertime link=topic=602.msg30613#msg30613
date=1591434581]
[quote author=Chairman of the Board
link=topic=602.msg30611#msg30611 date=1591381260]
its a good question.
firstly- how can it be a good location when such a large portion
of LIers won't attend SB, but would rather go to Buff/Bing/ua?
secondly, we are isolated. LI is a bubble, full stop. hard to
get to. traffic. hard to get out. high prices. difficult
people. scarce open space. not gown-friendly. it's the reason
you see LIers go up to bingo but not bingo kids down to LI.
rinse/repeat with another upstate region. add that to #1, and
we lose across the board.
while we are on the topic. LIers arent the easiest to get along
with. because it's insular. ask an SB grad from a different
region how that feels. it's part of the reason those students
last two semesters and split.
we say we are NY-accessible, but we all know it's really not.
2hrs on the train, or deal with 90min of driving and good luck
finding/paying for parking, college kids!
realistically, the large population we draw off of is LI,
queens, brooklyn, bronx. none of which either have strong
sports (relatively speaking), nor care about sports.
add to that- that each one of those kids CAN and most WILL go
home every weekend.
because of the train. geography.
and the campus is in the middle of affluent suburbs. it hinders
off campus housing; college kids cannot afford an 800k house
with 25k in taxes. so they stay home, stay in the miserably
overfilled dorms, or move to selden, PJ, mt. sinai, nowhere near
campus. the student population is thus fragmented. don't give
them any reason not to show up to something. with all the
distractions and technology today. add in a car, designated
driver, parking, traffic, and time. time away from laptops and
chargers.
the campus also is just not designed well. there's no
congregation area. there's nothing open on weekends. no actual
houses on campus. no one is there. and then it becomes
cyclical, feeding off itself. this may never change and it's a
shame.
i think the only real solution here- and it's a long term one-
is twofold. they really need private industry to come in and
build houses and a college town with a scene (and it needs to be
done correctly). secondly, they need to get away from this
enrollment of local kids who just go home on thursday afternoons
and return monday. use the excelsior program, take in kids from
the cap district, southern tier, CNY, ADK, WNY. free money,
more contribution to the community.
all you need to do is spend a saturday night up in guilderland
and you'll quickly see why they will eclipse us. if they
haven't already.
HTML http://sbufan.createaforum.com/around-stony-brook/making-sb-better-idea-thread/
(and i didnt even get into what the campus looks like, it's lack
of history, tradition, spirit, and the indifferent faculty)
[/quote]
Spot on Chairman. Well said.
May I add one more thing. You wont say it but I will.
You have to realize, even if SB found away to keep the majority
of students on campus for the weekend they still won't be
attending any football and BB games. Almost 50% of Stony Brook
students are of International descent. They don't care about
American sports. They are only here to learn our way of life.
Learn our engineering, our business, then take it back to their
country to steal our innovations and technology..( I had to say
that Chair). But seriously. They start up manufacturing in Asia
and sell our products back to us. All this because of our very
good education system in America.
Bottom line. I've come to the conclusion, after over 10 years of
attending SB sports, this University will never, ever be like a
Syracuse, a Penn State, Rutgers, or even a B.C.
[/quote]
10 years ago we had just barely started offering all of our
allotted scholarships for football, 20 years ago we had just
left division 2 and weren't even in the AAU yet. Change can
happen and fairly quickly, but you can't throw your hands up and
expect it will never happen. Academically we're there, but it's
the other parts of the school we need to improve. The points
made about our demographic make up have some merit and are worth
considering. More out of state kids who stay on campus, and a
shift in campus culture towards a more sociable one will over
time improve the perception of the university. Change can
happen, but we can't just give up on it.
#Post#: 30615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: Wolffan Date: June 7, 2020, 6:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just to throw in my two cents that as SBU continues to climb
academically we'll draw more and more from NYC, international
students, and the top academic LI kids who are going SUNY.
Thus, I wouldn't expect to see an increase in students who are
likely to head to football games.
#Post#: 30616--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: iBOsbu Date: June 8, 2020, 8:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with most of the sentiments here... including attracting
LI kids to bolster stadium attendance, but not at the expense of
city kids, especially innercity kids. I am not in favor of
reducing students from the city, even if they leave for the
weekend to see their families.. Most of these are talented
students from poor, lower-middle or middle-class families who
are not affluent like the LI families that can afford Syracuse,
NYU etc. These kids are getting world-class education that is
affordable at Stony Brook. While l love the Seawolves and our
Seawolves family, if its a choice between providing education to
have-nots and athletics experience, I know what I would choose
in a heartbeat.
#Post#: 30617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: Chairman of the Board Date: June 8, 2020, 8:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
it's a fair point that i agree with- there's a more subtle point
in there though that i want to clarify-
it's not that i think we should bypass better students from
downstate in favor of worse students;
it's that if you can get the student from elsewhere, with all
other aspects being equal, then let's prefer those who will
contribute to the community.
i truly believe that, if the campus life gets bad enough (which
it is), you will start to alienate good students anywhere.
bringing everything down.
in other words, keeping a vibrant college atmosphere is part of
attracting the best students, and the U endangers that by being
a suitcase college.
#Post#: 30618--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shawn Heilbron / TWT
By: Moveitfred Date: June 8, 2020, 9:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There is also this possibility mired in the mix:
What if our entire notion of a university, especially as it
pertains to student life and gathering and sports and
atmosphere, will be modestly/significantly/completely changed in
the next several years or possibly our lifetimes because of
health protocols and risks? What can any university do on the
sports and student life end of things before that other big
thing gets figured out? Is our vision of the vibrant university,
built from past experience, applicable in the future?
And certainly there will be many opinions about the virus
situation and where we stand. Go to your favorite partisan news
source today and you'll get all the answers you want to hear.
Truth is, we don't know, and it's possible "a university" will
need to be re-imagined by taking a hard look at what it can and
cannot do. With regard to the interests here, that could be a
change or end to some sports, to the fan experience, even what
it means to "go to" a university.
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