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#Post#: 42878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: Chairman of the Board Date: February 20, 2024, 8:16 pm
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i agree with everything you've written- every single point.
#Post#: 42879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: EastCoastMD Date: February 20, 2024, 8:32 pm
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I don’t think Geno will have issues with the transfer portal to
make us competitive next year. Especially if we finish the
season strong.
I would be shocked if SB makes any move to FBS. The enthusiasm
for such a move just doesn’t seem there. We just came off a
catastrophic winless season (unless you consider the Morgan
state game a forfeit). We need to see what direction Coach Cosh
takes this program in before any talk of that. Making the FCS
playoffs would be a start- something we haven’t done since all
the Hofstra players transferred from their football program that
shut down.
Those trashings at Campbell and Monmouth were really
demoralizing for this season. Let’s hope they can finish above
.500 the rest of the way to salvage this season and set the
foundation for a challenging year next year. But this team
really doesn’t show up on most occasions outside of Island
Federal Arena which is very concerning. But I agree it’s only
year 2 and maybe our expectations with this veteran squad were
way too high.
Womens B- Ball & Lacrosse keeping us relevant.
#Post#: 42880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: Checkmate Date: February 20, 2024, 9:21 pm
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[quote author=Redwyn link=topic=1093.msg42876#msg42876
date=1708477888]
Agree with many of the sentiments above, but not completely.
1. I don't see the admin as strongly supportive of athletics to
the level that Kenny and Stanley were. However, at least they're
not destructive, like Hofstra's Rabinowitz was to Football
there. You want an anti-athletic admin, just take a quick glance
his way. I frankly just don't think we understand how damaging
COVID was to SBU's finances as a State institution. I'm giving
them a little more time here. I personally think that there may
be a real plan to take us FBS, justifying a need to keep costs
down now. Geno is not a complete coaching bust and, in contrast
to Priore, can recruit, has community credibility and is a
likeable person. If I had a 10 year plan that needed to keep
costs down now, I'd resign him every time.
2. Pikiell was a great coach. However, I NEVER considered him a
good X's and O's guy. He had some really, really bad losses to
go with some incredible high flying wins. Rutgers, South
Carolina, and my favorite ruining the up to that point unbeaten
season for #13 U Washington pair with inexplicable losses to
very low majors and a complete inability to close on the "big
game". Peter Hooley still makes me cringe years later. Pikiell
won his final SBU game because Warney decided to win it for him.
I take nothing from Steve, I still think he was a solid coach
and recruiter and a great person. But let's not hero worship
thinking that he was Coach K.
3. We are and never were mid major dominants, even after the
conference championship. I don't think we are entirely gripping
how historically low major the AEC was. True mid majors like the
A-10, MVC and WCC are head and shoulders above us. The CAA is an
interesting mix between some real dregs like Hampton, programs
working to elevate like Campbell and NC A&T who have real
verticals, and solid mid majors like UNCW and Charleston. It is
a MUCH stronger league than the AEC, and Delaware leaving
doesn't really change that. However, it is STILL not even close
to the MVC or A-10.
4. This is a solid team, but I don't really see them as markedly
better as ones we've had before. I personally thought that 2019
had a really good squad. There's a discipline issue, but before
you say it, Pikiell had one for many of his teams too.
5. One last important thing. I took a look at the list of CAA
basketball champions. The first time one of the AEC defectors
came onto the list is 2014 (Delaware). It took Hofstra till
2020. Towson has never won. We really have to chill about being
major conference players in year 2. I would be happy with a >
0.500 conference record and a couple of tournament wins. That's
progress to me. Geno's biggest proving ground for me will be how
he reloads this team. That will matter.
[/quote]
Good post. I mostly agree. I don't think McInnis has any more
than 1% of her headspace tied up by athletics. Not opposed to
it; just other priorities. But I do not share your sentiment on
Geno. I just don't think he's it as a coach, and need to be
convinced as a recruiter. Granted, recruiting/rerecruiting has
to be just awful at this point. We've seen him reel in good
players from lesser conferences, and a few lesser players from
good conferences. As for freshmen, do we give him credit for
TSM, or is that Boals? But take it all into account and what's
it really yielded – not just this year but over the last five?
And this is after a dreadful stint at Bradley that I'm guessing
there are excuses for too? And for real, what about Geno should
make us believe that the future to be any different? I dunno.
I'm unmoved. In the preseason, I believed we had the horses to
earn Geno an extension, but 14-13/7-7 wasn't what I had in mind,
and it turns out it was already decided anyway. Mostly though, I
thought we had an opportunity get a fresh start with fresh blood
at the same price point, and wish we took that door.
#Post#: 42881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: Accelerator Date: February 20, 2024, 9:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Redwyn link=topic=1093.msg42876#msg42876
date=1708477888]
3. We are and never were mid major dominants, even after the
conference championship. I don't think we are entirely gripping
how historically low major the AEC was. True mid majors like the
A-10, MVC and WCC are head and shoulders above us. The CAA is an
interesting mix between some real dregs like Hampton, programs
working to elevate like Campbell and NC A&T who have real
verticals, and solid mid majors like UNCW and Charleston. It is
a MUCH stronger league than the AEC, and Delaware leaving
doesn't really change that. However, it is STILL not even close
to the MVC or A-10.
[/quote]
I would agree that we weren't mid-major dominants yet under
Pikiell, but the groundwork for us to become that A-10/MVC
mid-major dominant was there, and it didn't happen. Pikiell got
us to 68 in KenPom in 2013 (Warney's freshman year, when we
didn't even make the AE finals) and then 94 in 2016. The
thinking was that his successor would make us top 100
consistently (and not lose title games all the time, because
yeah this fanbase did have it out for Pikes a bit before he
finally won it).
I think Geno can get us enough replacement talent through the
portal for us not to be a complete doormat. But do I think next
year, which is being set up to be his final year unless he
really impresses, will be the one where he finally takes us to
being that top level CAA team? I just don't think so.
#Post#: 42882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: Chairman of the Board Date: February 20, 2024, 10:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Checkmate link=topic=1093.msg42880#msg42880
date=1708485685]
[quote author=Redwyn link=topic=1093.msg42876#msg42876
date=1708477888]
Agree with many of the sentiments above, but not completely.
1. I don't see the admin as strongly supportive of athletics to
the level that Kenny and Stanley were. However, at least they're
not destructive, like Hofstra's Rabinowitz was to Football
there. You want an anti-athletic admin, just take a quick glance
his way. I frankly just don't think we understand how damaging
COVID was to SBU's finances as a State institution. I'm giving
them a little more time here. I personally think that there may
be a real plan to take us FBS, justifying a need to keep costs
down now. Geno is not a complete coaching bust and, in contrast
to Priore, can recruit, has community credibility and is a
likeable person. If I had a 10 year plan that needed to keep
costs down now, I'd resign him every time.
2. Pikiell was a great coach. However, I NEVER considered him a
good X's and O's guy. He had some really, really bad losses to
go with some incredible high flying wins. Rutgers, South
Carolina, and my favorite ruining the up to that point unbeaten
season for #13 U Washington pair with inexplicable losses to
very low majors and a complete inability to close on the "big
game". Peter Hooley still makes me cringe years later. Pikiell
won his final SBU game because Warney decided to win it for him.
I take nothing from Steve, I still think he was a solid coach
and recruiter and a great person. But let's not hero worship
thinking that he was Coach K.
3. We are and never were mid major dominants, even after the
conference championship. I don't think we are entirely gripping
how historically low major the AEC was. True mid majors like the
A-10, MVC and WCC are head and shoulders above us. The CAA is an
interesting mix between some real dregs like Hampton, programs
working to elevate like Campbell and NC A&T who have real
verticals, and solid mid majors like UNCW and Charleston. It is
a MUCH stronger league than the AEC, and Delaware leaving
doesn't really change that. However, it is STILL not even close
to the MVC or A-10.
4. This is a solid team, but I don't really see them as markedly
better as ones we've had before. I personally thought that 2019
had a really good squad. There's a discipline issue, but before
you say it, Pikiell had one for many of his teams too.
5. One last important thing. I took a look at the list of CAA
basketball champions. The first time one of the AEC defectors
came onto the list is 2014 (Delaware). It took Hofstra till
2020. Towson has never won. We really have to chill about being
major conference players in year 2. I would be happy with a >
0.500 conference record and a couple of tournament wins. That's
progress to me. Geno's biggest proving ground for me will be how
he reloads this team. That will matter.
[/quote]
Good post. I mostly agree. I don't think McInnis has any more
than 1% of her headspace tied up by athletics. Not opposed to
it; just other priorities. But I do not share your sentiment on
Geno. I just don't think he's it as a coach, and need to be
convinced as a recruiter. Granted, recruiting/rerecruiting has
to be just awful at this point. We've seen him reel in good
players from lesser conferences, and a few lesser players from
good conferences. As for freshmen, do we give him credit for
TSM, or is that Boals? But take it all into account and what's
it really yielded – not just this year but over the last five?
And this is after a dreadful stint at Bradley that I'm guessing
there are excuses for too? And for real, what about Geno should
make us believe that the future to be any different? I dunno.
I'm unmoved. In the preseason, I believed we had the horses to
earn Geno an extension, but 14-13/7-7 wasn't what I had in mind,
and it turns out it was already decided anyway. Mostly though, I
thought we had an opportunity get a fresh start with fresh blood
at the same price point, and wish we took that door.
[/quote]
agreed, and wanted to add, that im less concerned with the
record and more focused on how we lost some of the inexplicable
leads we had. in other words, i thought .500 was likely; i
worry about our recurring collapses against lesser teams.
#Post#: 42883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: OldSeawolf Date: February 21, 2024, 6:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts on Pikiell -- great guy, exceptional recruiter (but
it was a different world back then), great ambassador for the
University, marginal at best X's and O's guy. He definitely had
trouble in tight games and especially in Big games. Warney won
the Championship game, not Pikiell.....we were down 15 at the
half, in danger of losing yet another big home Championship
game, and Warney put the team and the University on his back to
get it done. He was a one in a million recruit.
Pikiell had the knack for recruiting above our athletic stature
and keeping his student/athletes for 4 years (again, different
world). I loved that Pikiell picked up the mic, and talked to
the crowd after games. You felt that the guy really cared about
building the program. I don't get that feeling with Geno at
all. He's got the gift of gab in the pressers, seems likeable
enough, but I get the feeling at times, that he's just going
through the motions. Not sure if he's the best our coffers can
buy, if it's Heilbron laziness, if it's a directive from the
executive office, or what, but Geno is not the guy to take us to
the next level. Pikiell, even with his coaching shortcomings,
definitely was.
#Post#: 42884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: Chairman of the Board Date: February 21, 2024, 7:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
i again agree- now wondering whether expectations are too high
(someone wrote it earlier). these are young men, often
teenagers, with studies, and a social life, and a full time job
in the gym. the season is long, kids get hurt, long bus rides
sap energy, people get sick, have distractions, bad days, etc.
it's too much to expect consistency for 4+ months.
#Post#: 42885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: sbupatriots Date: February 21, 2024, 8:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Agree with everything said so far Re: Geno and the overall
direction of the program. I think one headwind Geno has had to
face is the lack of momentum for the athletic program in
general. Kind've the opposite of "rising tides lift all ships."
With how bad Priore has been and the football program as a
result, it hurts the other programs as well. Look at how peer
basketball programs like JMU, Liberty, App st, Delaware, etc,
have benefited from a rising football program. Hopefully the
early momentum Cosh has brought to the dept with bleed into
basketball as well.
#Post#: 42886--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: Checkmate Date: February 21, 2024, 10:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=sbupatriots link=topic=1093.msg42885#msg42885
date=1708526586]
Agree with everything said so far Re: Geno and the overall
direction of the program. I think one headwind Geno has had to
face is the lack of momentum for the athletic program in
general. Kind've the opposite of "rising tides lift all ships."
With how bad Priore has been and the football program as a
result, it hurts the other programs as well. Look at how peer
basketball programs like JMU, Liberty, App st, Delaware, etc,
have benefited from a rising football program. Hopefully the
early momentum Cosh has brought to the dept with bleed into
basketball as well.
[/quote]
I disagree with this. Of course, if we went FBS (which I doubt),
undoubtedly it raises the profile of the whole institution. But
more than half of D-I basketball teams don't have FBS programs
and some don't even have football. Creighton stands on its own,
Marquette, Gonzaga, St. John's, on down to Vermont, College of
Charleston, UNCW, etc. I just don't think the success of an FCS
football program matters a great deal to a basketball coach or
the recruits he's trying to bring in. If anything, the
correlation is marginal in my opinion. Three FCS teams averaged
more than 20,000 fans at their games in 2022. It's just largely
irrelevant in the big picture.
Win games, build some tradition and people will come.
#Post#: 42887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Game 28: vs North Carolina A&T, 2/22 6:30pm
By: sbupatriots Date: February 21, 2024, 2:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Checkmate link=topic=1093.msg42886#msg42886
date=1708534244]
[quote author=sbupatriots link=topic=1093.msg42885#msg42885
date=1708526586]
Agree with everything said so far Re: Geno and the overall
direction of the program. I think one headwind Geno has had to
face is the lack of momentum for the athletic program in
general. Kind've the opposite of "rising tides lift all ships."
With how bad Priore has been and the football program as a
result, it hurts the other programs as well. Look at how peer
basketball programs like JMU, Liberty, App st, Delaware, etc,
have benefited from a rising football program. Hopefully the
early momentum Cosh has brought to the dept with bleed into
basketball as well.
[/quote]
I disagree with this. Of course, if we went FBS (which I doubt),
undoubtedly it raises the profile of the whole institution. But
more than half of D-I basketball teams don't have FBS programs
and some don't even have football. Creighton stands on its own,
Marquette, Gonzaga, St. John's, on down to Vermont, College of
Charleston, UNCW, etc. I just don't think the success of an FCS
football program matters a great deal to a basketball coach or
the recruits he's trying to bring in. If anything, the
correlation is marginal in my opinion. Three FCS teams averaged
more than 20,000 fans at their games in 2022. It's just largely
irrelevant in the big picture.
Win games, build some tradition and people will come.
[/quote]
I don't know if a bad football team hurts recruiting but a good
football team with good support definitely helps. If you have
recruits visit on a fall weekend with a football game, having
the campus flooded with red makes a huge difference. Pikiell had
that 2011-2015.
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