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#Post#: 245--------------------------------------------------
Dev Crit Change
By: Genesis Date: June 3, 2019, 5:02 am
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Background
Over the past few months there have been several discussions
around Devastating Critical (Dev Crit) and its role on the
server. There are some who feel that the instant death mechanics
are too overpowered for a level 30 (or indeed any) PvP setup,
and there are others that feel the feat is justified in its
default state.
The feat requires a character to have 6 feats and certain
ability scores:
[list]
[li]25 Strength[/li]
[li]Power Attack[/li]
[li]Cleave[/li]
[li]Great Cleave[/li]
[li]Improved Critical[/li]
[li]Overwhelming Critical[/li]
[li]Devastating Critical[/li]
[/list]
Recently we have started to experiment with the mechanics. This
is NOT a permanent change, but an exercise in ensuring we can
correctly apply the required scripting to modify the behaviour
here. This feat has traditionally been locked behind the black
box of NWN and it is only as we expand into NWNX that we are
able to make changes.
Like many of the changes, we try to start small to prove the
mechanics and then tweak it over time. We can't get everything
right all the time, but I definitely want there to be consensus
on where we end up.
Options
The options above are as follows:
Original : The feat behaves as it was originally coded. On a
failed Fortitude save, the target dies.
Current : The feat behaves as it has currently been changed to -
on a failed Fortitude save, the target takes 10% (of their total
HP) bonus damage (on top of the regular critical damage) and is
knocked down for 1 round. If the attacker has 5+ levels in
Weapon Master, the knockdown is extended to 2 rounds.
So if a target has 300 HP, they take the attacker's crit damage
+ 30 damage.
There are two avenues of modification here - the % bonus damage
and the effects applied.
Current Minus Knockdown : The feat behaves as it has currently
been changed to but the Knockdown is removed. This would most
likely mean a far higher bonus damage percentage to compensate.
Current Minus Fortitude Save : One suggestion made has been to
remove the target's fortitude save and, on a critical hit, apply
the % damage bonus. This would probably be a small % of target
HP, as they would be getting hit more often with applicable
critical hits, but would remove the concept of 1 fishing in
melee combat.
Other : The list above is not exhaustive, so please feel free to
make suggestions.
Discussion
This thread is for the discussion of Devastating Critical in PvP
only. PvE behaviour (mobs die on a failed Fortitude save) is
unchanged presently and there are no intentions to change it at
this time. This is purely how it behaves when two player
characters are bashing each other in the face.
Keep suggestions, commentary, and interactions constructive and
polite. We have a growing community of awesome folks, and I
would like to hear as many voices as possible.
#Post#: 246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: Genesis Date: June 3, 2019, 5:14 am
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As a player, I think failing a Fortitude save is relatively rare
in our PvP; therefore, any effects should be grand enough to
make the investment worth it.
I have voted for bonus damage, and suggest 50% as the amount of
damage.
If effects were to be applied I would suggest Knockdown and
Blindness. Having a round of free attacks against a flat-footed
opponent would allow additional damage to be piled on top of the
initial crit.
If the fortitude save was to be removed, I would think 5% bonus
damage sufficient; especially as scimitar, rapier, and kukri
builds can hit 10-20 crit ranges. These would give rise to
viable 'mage killer' sneaks and similar builds.
#Post#: 248--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: Drakeheart Date: June 3, 2019, 8:57 am
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(Everything that follows is my own opinion, YMMV)
DevCrit is a definitely a powerful ability, with a heavy
investment attached to it. But it's also one of the most
rewarding feat trees in the game, as a result.
I do feel like DevCrit's instant kill is too much for a PvP
environment, but I can't say I'm happy with any of the other
suggestions here either. As you've mentioned fishing for 1's is
a problem for this server, so picking up DevCrit for use in PvP
feels rather unrewarding, until it lands, and then it's a really
bad time for the other person. All or Nothing affairs like this
do not make for great PvP moments. The other side of that cursed
coin is that by removing the save entirely, you now have a
minefield to try and wade through, too little a change and you
make no progress, too much and it'll overtake the server.
So here is my suggestion:
DevCrit does not require a save. It just happens. That fixes the
Fishing problem that permeates the PvP scene.
10% of the target's health, on top of the normal critical
damage, is a really good starting place. Characters with high HP
feel the hurt, but character without high HP aren't going to be
SPLAT'd.
Now an additional effect here would be ideal, but I don't like
the idea of it rendering an opponent useless without a save.
What I suggest instead is some kind of Wound effect. The target
suffers a small flat penalty to AB, AC, Strength, Dexterity,
something (I don't know what precisely). This is only ever
applied once, and will only be re-upped if the target is hit
with another DevCrit.
In this way, DevCrit will still be useful in PVP, without making
it into a game ender.
#Post#: 249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: Pheroth Date: June 3, 2019, 9:10 am
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I'm for save vs. Death. Rolling 1's has always been apart of
life, and Dev crit can get up there in DC, you may not need to
fish for ones. Worked for fifteen years on RP/PVP servers, and
there were no issues. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
#Post#: 256--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: eyeballl Date: June 3, 2019, 11:47 am
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I say save vs death is really fair, if you look at it. There is
a very low chance of actually getting anything out of it in
combat. If you face a player that is geared properly, he can
easily get like 45 fort.. which means that you have to roll a 1
to fail. That's a 5% to kill but first when you crit... Someone
did the math for me the other day. That with a 13-20 crit rate.
The chance to kill someone when hit them is down to 2.4%. That's
a really low % chance to get rewarded for something you invested
a lot of feat into.
So i will without question vote for death on failed save.
a little extra % damage.. won't make up for all those feats and
VERY low chance of success.
*edit*
People need to realize that Bigby spell is a lot more powerful
than dev crit. Can knock a person down the entire fight with
very very high of success unless you are rdd.
#Post#: 260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: songmistress Date: June 3, 2019, 12:55 pm
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I voted to keep it how it is right now because I've not seen it
live yet with the knockdown, so I don't know if that's fun or
not yet. If that one is out the door then keep it default. To be
honest dev crit doesn't land all that often. It is a fishing for
1's, but other spells etc.. fish for 1's as well. So I don't see
the biggest deal about it. And there are builds that basically
make dev cit null and void.
So you can move my one vote if that's all who votes for keeping
it how it is for now, ((mainly because I wanted to see how that
worked)) to leave dev crit alone, if need be.
((Basically keeping something in the server for a few days to me
isn't long enough to form an opinion on it yet.))
#Post#: 261--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: Genesis Date: June 3, 2019, 12:56 pm
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This poll will run for a few days, so we will see how the
current changes play out.
#Post#: 262--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: Pheroth Date: June 3, 2019, 1:05 pm
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Can you make all polls have the option to change ones vote?
#Post#: 268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: Genesis Date: June 3, 2019, 2:35 pm
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[quote author=Pheroth link=topic=98.msg262#msg262
date=1559585112]
Can you make all polls have the option to change ones vote?
[/quote]
Could not from mobile, can from web page. Should be doable now.
Will also make the change in the other poll.
#Post#: 291--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dev Crit Change
By: Genesis Date: June 5, 2019, 8:16 am
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Has anyone got any feedback on how the new Dev Crit change is
working?
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