DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Kingdoms
HTML https://sacredkingdoms.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Polls
*****************************************************
#Post#: 404--------------------------------------------------
[Phase 1] Bigby Spells
DIR By: Genesis
Date: June 18, 2019, 4:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Background
The Bigby suite of spells are those green hands that seem to
make single targets disabled. For low STR combatants, Forceful
Hand is a bane. For low AC character, Grasping (and other
rooting variants) are issues.
There are several spells in the library to address, so want to
try and take a pragmatic approach to breaking them down.
Bigby's Interposing Hand (BIH) applies a flat -10 AB penalty. IT
does not require any checks beyond spell resistance. There is no
save.
At the moment, Bigby's Forceful Hand (BFH) has the default +14
STR modifier reduced to +7 (equivalent of 24 STR). This means
that the roll is:
--- Quote ---
>
> Caster : d20 + 7
> Target : d20 + STR Modifier + Size Modifier
>
--- End Quote ---
There are also mechanics for addressing a bug in BFH / Timestop
behaviour but these need to be re-verified and tested again
anyway.
Bigby's Grasping Hand (BGH) has similar mechanics to Bigby's
Crushing Hand (BCH) and Bigby's Clenched Fist (BCF). It must
overcome two checks - attack roll and grapple check - in the
engine:
--- Quote ---
>
> Caster : Caster Level + INT / CHA modifier + 10 (wiz / sorc
respectively) - 1 + d20
> Target : AC
>
--- End Quote ---
A 'typical' AC is 55 to 65. A 'typical' caster modifier is 13 to
15 (36 to 40 INT/CHA). That gives, as a rough throw of numbers,
30 + 14 + 10 - 1 (53) + d20 vs. ~60.
--- Quote ---
>
> Caster : Caster Level + INT / CHA modifier + 10 (wiz / sorc
respectively) + 4 + d20
> Target : Base AB + STR modifier + Size modifier + d20
>
--- End Quote ---
A 'typical' BAB is 20 to 26 with STR from 13 to 17 (36 to 44
STR, for RDDs). Roughly then, 30 + 14 + 10 + 4 (58) + d20 vs. 23
+ 15 + 0 (size medium) (38) + d20.
Safe to say, if the caster passes the 'Attack Roll', the grapple
check is virtually guaranteed to take hold.
Plenty of options to explore here - duration, saves, or a
tweaking of the numbers.
Discussion for now. Polls will come off the back of the
discussion. If I see people being rude, opinionated, or
obnoxious, their input will be disregarded.
#Post#: 407--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: Pheroth
Date: June 18, 2019, 7:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Bigbys Interposing Hand is fine I think as it can be removed
with a simple lesser restoration pot. The others maybe a reduced
duration. The argument I see being brought up a lot is that they
last so long, which is indeed an issue. That or tweaking the
saves against them to make them easier to save against. One
problem with them is that items with spells run of a characters
caster level, so you give those scrolls to a bard and it’s GG as
well.
#Post#: 408--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: Zilvai
Date: June 18, 2019, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pheroth link ---
>
> One problem with them is that items with spells run of a
characters caster level, so you give those scrolls to a bard and
it’s GG as well.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's based off the scrolls level which defaults to CL 1. So the
scrolls are useless.
#Post#: 411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: Pheroth
Date: June 18, 2019, 8:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You sure about that? Because you were able for Foreceful Pheroth
with a scroll.
#Post#: 413--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: ToraTora
Date: June 18, 2019, 8:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
One way I have seen servers deal with B spells is that they
require concentration checks to maintain. Casting any other
spells forced a high dc concentration check. This meant that if
the caster wanted to lay on additional hurt, they'd need a
second person or not bone their concentration checks. If they
got attacked and hurt, they'd also make a concentration check
based on the damage to avoid cancelling the spells.
#Post#: 415--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: Pheroth
Date: June 18, 2019, 8:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ToraTora link ---
>
> One way I have seen servers deal with B spells is that they
require concentration checks to maintain. Casting any other
spells forced a high dc concentration check. This meant that if
the caster wanted to lay on additional hurt, they'd need a
second person or not bone their concentration checks. If they
got attacked and hurt, they'd also make a concentration check
based on the damage to avoid cancelling the spells.
>
--- End Quote ---
Problem with that is most times in the war zone there will be
other people, so the caster is free to disable other targets and
with how long thebigys spells last no one will get up before
they get mowed down. Most common complaint I’ve seen is the
matter of length, second one is about the saves which most
people believe doesn’t exist(not saying it doesn’t. The formulas
above are what I’m familiar with for it.).
#Post#: 416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: Zilvai
Date: June 18, 2019, 8:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pheroth link ---
>
> You sure about that? Because you were able for Foreceful
Pheroth with a scroll.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I am sure. And I did it on Pierce, not Pheroth.
#Post#: 418--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: iamthemadotaku
Date: June 18, 2019, 9:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am all for a shorter timer, the concentration check sounds
alright, I was more under the thought process that if we were to
limit any sort of bigby spam, I know my PC can sometimes resist
a casting, but if the wizard then casts it 5-6 times I
eventually fail, if we could allow both a timer to prevent spam,
shorter duration (.nothing to extreme) and a fair concentration
check (again nothing to high) then that would be fair in my
mind.
#Post#: 419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: Pheroth
Date: June 18, 2019, 9:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Zilvai link ---
>
> [quote author=Pheroth link=topic=144.msg411#msg411
date=1560863412]
> You sure about that? Because you were able for Foreceful
Pheroth with a scroll.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I am sure. And I did it on Pierce, not Pheroth.
[/quote]
Fucking P's. P is everywhere in my vault.
#Post#: 420--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bigby Spells
DIR By: ToraTora
Date: June 18, 2019, 10:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pheroth link ---
>
> [quote author=ToraTora link=topic=144.msg413#msg413
date=1560865086]
> One way I have seen servers deal with B spells is that they
require concentration checks to maintain. Casting any other
spells forced a high dc concentration check. This meant that if
the caster wanted to lay on additional hurt, they'd need a
second person or not bone their concentration checks. If they
got attacked and hurt, they'd also make a concentration check
based on the damage to avoid cancelling the spells.
>
--- End Quote ---
Problem with that is most times in the war zone there will be
other people, so the caster is free to disable other targets and
with how long thebigys spells last no one will get up before
they get mowed down. Most common complaint I’ve seen is the
matter of length, second one is about the saves which most
people believe doesn’t exist(not saying it doesn’t. The formulas
above are what I’m familiar with for it.).
[/quote]
That's why casting another bigsby would require a check. Even
if you passed that, you'd lose both if you failed a check after
that.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page