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#Post#: 98--------------------------------------------------
2005 TapeOp interview with Hardy Fox
By: FrenesiGates Date: October 29, 2016, 11:31 am
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HTML http://tapeop.com/interviews/45/residents/
THIS IS THE BEST INTERVIEW
You have to provide credit card info to read it in its entirety,
so I'll post it all here:
The Residents: 30 Odd Years and still going...
by Roman Sokal
For over thirty years, the legendary, prolific and influential
art group known as The Residents has been making interesting
rock 'n' roll, pop and symphonic music and films that are never
old. Their modus operandi is intellectual, logical,
experimental, existential and yes, sometimes simple. The mass
public does not know who The Residents are; instead, they have
kept their identities a mystery — most remembered as appearing
in public performances dressed in tuxedos and eyeball
headpieces, and, of late, in costumes relating to the themes of
their current projects. By focusing on their work and not who
they are, every project is completely new.
Several of The Residents' albums are groundbreaking in many
ways. They have created profound postmodern musical statements
about music, in albums such as The Commercial Album — forty
one-minute songs that are a breakdown of the formula of
commercial music — or The Third Reich 'N' Roll — a challenging
exercise in the editing, morphing and then some of popular
singles. They also have created legendary music opuses. Eskimo
is a story told with sonics, and the Mole Trilogy (a series of
albums about a fictitious group of beings, the Moles and the
Chubs) takes the narrative standpoint in a postmodern fashion
via the culture's indigenous style of music — even making an
album of an album by a 'group' in the story (The Big Bubble).
Like The Residents' identity, their process is also a mystery.
This is due, in part, to the self- admitted memory malfunctions
plaguing one of the group's long-time business and artistic
entities, the philosophical Hardy Fox, who also functions as one
of The Residents' spokespersons. (Then again, it's something
that plagues us all at some point, especially when trying to
remember the making of a record that took place over 20 years
ago). The mystique of their process also stems from the fact
that The Residents question whether knowing which console was
used on a particular album is really valid in the grand scheme
of things and whether it affects the enjoyment of the final
product. It goes back to the ideas that many who make great
records bring up: Over-analysis can stifle creation, if one is
not careful. However, when listening to their albums, keep in
mind that The Residents do embrace the newest technologies. They
even allow them to dictate how their projects turn out, starting
from the moment a box containing a new piece of equipment is
opened, even if its operation is unknown at the outset.
During one early evening in Detroit last November before a
Residents show (they were on tour for the immaculate and dark
self-reflecting album about mortality, Demons Dance Alone), I
managed to chat with Hardy Fox about the essential elements
behind the ideas of making records and more.
So, I've read here and there that you are somewhat of The
Residents' sound engineer?
"Not exactly" to "sorta". I have done a lot of sound work,
primarily with recording gear. I call in professionals when a
project requires professionalism, though. I am amused by sound.
Does that count?
I suppose. Do you partake in their studio endeavors? And what's
your function?
I don't have a traditional role, but lately I am really pushing
for DVD development and expanded surround. But by the time this
gets published I will probably be off doing something else.
You would shop around for gear, like investigate into things and
suggest perhaps different technologies?
Yeah, but I can't say I'm the only one who does this because
there are probably dozens of people who help The Residents with
gear ideas, including lots of companies who stay in touch... in
terms of what they're working on and developing.
Software and whatnot.
... software and hardware. The thing with the Residents is that
they're ill-defined, and actually everything about them is
ill-defined. Sort of a controlled chaos situation, I suppose.
But it's also a very creative chaos. Companies wonder what the
Residents will do with their products.
So with albums like Eskimo or Mark Of The Mole — in which,
musically, they're more about using sound to tell the story
instead of using words/lyrics — would they develop albums based
off of whatever new equipment was around?
Yes, absolutely. Just like any new toy — you figure out new ways
of playing, so the instrument is a new toy, the camera is a new
toy — so quite often that's a new driving force, a way of coming
up with new ideas. Sometimes people are new toys, too.
Certainly, and they're the most complex one. In the past fifteen
years or so, [with] the advent of new accessible technologies in
terms of high-quality home recording like DAWS and such, have
the Residents taken refuge in the home studio scenario as
opposed to the commercial recording studio? Is that a preferable
thing?
They do both. But the commercial studios tend to be less formal
and more like working at home... comfortable. A lot of times
they'll prefer working in a professional situation. The home
studio might be just for sketching or it could be for completely
other reasons. But it is true, home studios can be quite
sophisticated. The Residents don't just record at home... never
did. It is all a mix of everything from cassette location to 24-
track digital. But they prefer the time freedom of working off
the clock.
I suppose even at a well built-up home studio one can create ad
infinitum, but one might never meet a deadline, if one exists...
Well, not the Residents! The Residents believe the amount of
time it takes to create is part of the project. They consider
the amount of time that something is worth having put into it.
How does that manifest musically then?
You may think you have a really great idea, but if the time
allotment for it exceeds the quality of the idea, then it's not
a good idea. You just thought it was a good idea! But it might
be a good idea for another time because technology makes it
possible. Time is really important to the Residents.
That's right, because a lot of time has elapsed since they began
making music over thirty years ago and the concept of mortality
seems to be a theme throughout their music as of late. So now
it's about "Let's get something done."
Right. They're aware of their ticking clocks. They have a
certain amount of time to get do what has to be done. And they
do believe that they have more ideas than time to complete them.
Therefore, you can't spend too much time fussing over an idea.
But then there has to be a balance found over not just getting
something recorded/produced just to get it done. In other words,
not half- assing an idea.
Well, one has to determine how much time an idea is worth. An
idea in which too much time is spent becomes a half-assed idea.
It's like if you would want to have a concert on the moon, it
could possibly be accomplished in time, but that becomes a very
bad idea. You have to keep sort of a reference. When you start
off, you don't have that reference. You start working on it, and
the ideas expand, and you start to get a sense of what the
requirements are. They just believe that time is an element to
be factored.
Okay, you're on the scent of a trail and you have seen it come
to fruition. You got the idea, you see the golden pearly gates,
it's tangible, but it could take x amount of time — but you're
on the trail...
The quality of the ideas go up so time allotment goes up, as you
start sensing the motivation it takes to accomplish. It is not
an objective science.
But has that happened?
Many times. A lot of times you have an idea but you don't
realize what the idea is until you're kind of halfway through
it. Then you have to calculate what it takes. You should never
build a house that you won't live in long enough to actually
enjoy, no matter how fantastic it's going to be. The point being
that all projects have to be finished in a timely fashion unless
they weren't good ideas to begin with. Once you get the feeling
that it wasn't a good idea to begin with then it can just be
abandoned and you accept it. It's like reading book that's no
longer good but it started good. You don't have to finish
reading the book just because you started it.
Then that unfinished idea can end up on a compilation disc or as
an added feature, like being deemed a demo or something like
that.
It goes into what we call 'the shelf'. An example of that would
be the Eskimo Opera — that's on the shelf, but the Eskimo DVD
has happened.
Have you abandoned authoring multimedia Residents projects with
CD-ROMS?
Yeah, technology has changed so much. Also DVD is a real
consumer technology whereas CD-ROM was a computer technology. So
it makes more sense. It has more limitations in some ways but it
has better picture, better sound, and in some ways [is] easier
to work with. Usually with CD-ROMS you'd have to have a bank of
programmers all the time. You couldn't do it all yourself.
So back to Residents albums. Have you been to every recording
session since you joined the fold?
Well, not every single one, but more than enough to be a 'yes'
answer. Certainly the more important ones.
When they are recording an album, how much are you involved in
it?
I have been involved as much as completely and as little as not
at all.
So would there be one or two 'leaders' who sort of guide or
steer the direction that an album is going, as an authority who
would say, "Yeah that mix is better'"‚ or is it completely a
collective?
There is no collective. It becomes a collective only on a large
scale. In any particular facet, being a collective doesn't work.
Recording sessions and normal life are not as separate as this,
this or this. When there are no rules, you can't do anything
wrong.
...the roles are not cut and dried...
Right. There are no roles, and when roles happen it's a fluid
situation. And it varies so much because there is no way of
believing that the next time it's going to happen the same way.
Have there ever been 'outside' engineers or producers that have
expressed interest in working with the Residents on one of their
albums? Perhaps someone who wanted to add their own 'sheen' to
their musical wares?
There have been many engineers and some producers, but more
about adding their own thing... like they could make a Residents
dance record or something like that.
What project took the longest to do?
Do I count ones still in the works...?
... well, the shortest then?
They all take way too long. I don't keep any records about
things like that. I guess it would be something that was a live
recording.
(continued in the next post)
#Post#: 99--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2005 TapeOp interview with Hardy Fox
By: FrenesiGates Date: October 29, 2016, 11:32 am
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So what are they using now, recording- wise? Software?
You can only ask what they used on a specific project. It's rare
for them to use the same from project to project. They aren't
really big on repeating themselves.
So each album is like, "Let's do something completely different
across the board..."
The albums generally tend to be conceptual-based, so it tends to
launch the bigger picture of how it's going to be done and how
it's going to work — the process.
So if they do albums that are based on, say, emerging
technologies that have still have a lot of bugs, what would be
an album that had become a really big challenge that they had
problems making?
Eskimo.
That involved the Emulator II's?
No, that was before those were invented. It was hard to come up
with the 'ideas' for Eskimo. Because, the basic concept of it
was to exploit an ethnic group that had not yet been exploited.
Ah, right — people and ideas are 'equipment' as well, which is
what you were saying before.
It was really difficult to figure out how to do that. Eskimos
aren't that interesting, so it took about four years to record.
I notice that often there are somewhat reworked versions of
albums, like Eskimo, be it expanded ones for new media like DVD
and beyond.
Albums are completely a '70s concept. There is no reason that
any idea needs to be nailed to a cross and told to never change.
Any other experiences on other records involving my previous
question?
We had to work in a studio once where they didn't have Macintosh
[computers]. We just couldn't make those other things work. We
always had to call somebody. It got easier as we went along, but
at first it was a complete nightmare to work in an unfamiliar
OS. The problems of modern life are different than in the old
days.
Well, does anything stay constant? Er... microphones?
Originally the microphone — (there was only one), a U87. Later
we signed an agreement with Shure on behalf of The Residents and
now The Residents use only Shure microphones and prefer them to
the U87 anyway. There are lots of different ones. They all have
numbers.
Would you be able to recreate what went on with the Third Reich
'N' Roll album with today's modern equipment? Could they? That
album is quite a feat in terms of analog tape splicing, bouncing
and whatnot.
It's a totally different world now. It'd be impossible to
recreate that but it's not a technological problem, it's a
problem with being naïve because if there is one thing you can't
do, it's that you can't be innocent once you aren't. A lot of
early projects, I think, only exist because of being naïve. And
as The Residents lost their innocence, like most people do, they
had to evolve and reinvent themselves as a less naïve entity.
Once again, that's a machine element or factor — the 'naïve'‚
thing — it's like a setting or energy source.
Yeah, you don't know that until you lose it, and you don't want
to stay naïve either. That's something that plagues all
musicians or artists overall. It plagues all media, I think. And
life itself. It may be the point that once you've had an orgasm,
you may never know what it's like to not have one, or could you
not want to have another one.
And without it, development would be hindered, right? There are
stages one must go through to get to another level.
As an imprint — the ability to crawl is an important step. And
the ability to walk is another. Basically you realize these
abilities to be in new places. Like getting a car, you drive and
you can be in a new place. And then you hit the orgasm, and for
the first time you not only go to a new place, you go to a place
in a way you never knew you could go to before. Death is
probably one of those things, too.
So given this whole thing about 'anonymity' and the Residents-
something that people focus more on about the group than the
music — have there ever been people who tried to crash a
recording session, to seek them out that way?
So you're asking if people care who the Residents are? I don't
think so. Why would they?
I don't know. Well, when someone doesn't want to be known down
to the level of a name and face — people tend to get more
curious, and of course with the Residents, it's partly about
making a statement that it's really unnecessary to know who they
are, and that the music should then be given clearer
attention...
If you wanted to publish names and pictures I doubt that at this
point it would corrupt their quality as a group, but it would
have when they were younger. They're pretty well adjusted to
their status and likely not to be led astray by the temptations
of individuality.
Why is it that people always want to know about 'process'? Like
little technical specifics that aren't necessary to be known
because the end result is what really matters? Besides trying to
find some 'magic', maybe it's also because they don't want to
discover something for themselves, by themselves?
I'm not all that interested in the technical aspects,
unfortunately. I think that that technology can be summed up
with the concept of pressing 'play' or 'record', depending upon
what you wish to do. These days I am personally more into record
mode. It is just boring old recording after all. Techniques are
invented on the spot and not dwelled on or developed into styles
of working. Who wants to keep stuff like that in the brain?
That's like asking why someone got a divorce. These things
happen. I don't know if there is any value system in any of it.
I think that the most important thing is that people have to
find what creativity means to them as an individual and [if]
being creative means emulating something else, then that's also
valid. It might be less interesting to a larger amount of
people. The Residents are less interested in appealing to a
larger amount of people themselves, compared to, say, Celine
Dion. So once again the important thing is that people do find a
creative level in their lives and I think it's important that
other people not take a judgmental stand. Maybe that's back to
process again. There is a lot to be learned and there are a lot
of rewards in doing anything, and the worst thing in the world
is to do nothing.
Do The Residents have a certain facility now to record in? Have
they built a studio? Has there been interest in that?
No. For one thing, they're not as interested in music as they
used to be, partly because they're interested in other
technologies. And you can't just add to the total of your time
and energy, you have to subtract something to make space for
another. Another part of the problem with music is that it's
been trivialized in our culture. And so they feel like they have
a responsibility of recognizing that it is more trivial now. So
they do, because they observe that in our culture. Also, it is
easy to maintain a home studio, maybe even a portable one.
Record albums, CDs, etc., are not the priority now — there [are]
other forms of art expression. It was about what the medium that
was available at the time — whatever was obtainable to work with
— so there was analog film, now, digital cameras, which spawns
further digital manipulation.
Yeah. It's the public that insists upon the persona of The
Residents being a band. They don't have that in themselves. In
fact, they don't have the persona of being The Residents. That's
completely assigned from the outside. It's like a cat being
named. The cat doesn't really care.
But if the cat hears it's dinnertime then it's going to turn its
head and chow down.
The cat doesn't care that the sound is a 'name'.
But if the cat recognizes a sound...
The sound has to be related to something. If you have a door
that squeaks, it will accept the squeaking door if it's related
to being fed. If you happen to create a daily pattern in an
environment, then the cat would recognize the pattern. The
Residents are more like that.
So what would be a good environment for recording for The
Residents? What are they comfortable with?
I don't think they're ever truly comfortable.
It's always good to be on a weird edge. But what happens if they
would be comfortable recording.
Maybe we'll try that as an experimental concept some day.
Do they see their music as interesting? Do they see that some of
the public finds it interesting?
That's a hard one to answer because I think it has different
answers at different times. I would be lying if I said that they
had no interest in what people thought of their music. I think
they have had that perspective at times and I think at other
times some of their projects have come almost to antagonize the
listener, to alienate them more. I don't think the desire is to
be liked or disliked, but they feel that only they can enjoy
everything they do, because no one else is them. If someone who
is not a Resident enjoys everything that The Residents do... it
means that that person is one of The Residents.
Do they have a favorite album? Something that they're way more
proud of accomplishing, on a sonic level even?
I think in reality it's really no, but because they're most
interested in whatever they've just recently done.
Then what stands the test of time for them thus far as an album?
They're opinion, your opinion. It's all semantics, I know, but,
say, if something was shelved, and it came out now.
The Third Reich 'N' Roll. I listened to it not too long at all.
I think it hasn't aged at all.
When that was recorded, was it put together so they could see
ahead of time in terms of what happened, or is it more about
seeing what happens after all the heavy amounts of editing?
Well, a lot of listening to 45 [rpm records] went on. That was
the audition process.
The album was seen as one piece?
Two.
Right. Two long songs. So that was an album that was totally
constructed in the studio in a way. By that I mean, having an
idea, but who knows what's going to happen.
It was a studio invention, right.
Are [there] any recent ones of the same vein? Because they seem
more to be concept based.
More concept than Third Reich? Is that possible?
And there seems to be more fluidity to the albums now.
They also have some musicians that they really enjoy working
with and so a lot of times they like to bring other people in to
do things. It's a factor in that they're not always pleased with
their own playing of something. If you can't have a guitar play
the way you would like to have it played then why not have a
real guitar player play it? It's the ultimate sampler!
You mentioned at one point they didn't know what they were
doing- they were still naïve. What are the pros of working with
that kind of approach and what are the pros and cons of working
in the situation that they are now?
Well, being naïve wasn't an approach, more the lack of one.
I know, but was there an advantage of being naïve at the time?
Well, there is always an advantage of being naïve when you are.
Children are beautiful because of it, but nothing is worse than
an adult pretending to be naïve.
Did any 'happy accidents'‚ happen as a result?
There are always happy accidents, and unhappy ones as well. Life
would not be the same if there weren't accidents. I think the
best example of happy accidents is running into you when you had
a tape recorder. Just imagine if you had to remember everything
we said. Anyway, The Demons Dance Alone project has come to an
end and now the group is reforming in radically new ways — they
are launching their fourth ten-year plan, which takes them in
unexplored directions. Remember. To even need a fourth ten-year
plan is nothing short of remarkable.
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