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#Post#: 11470--------------------------------------------------
birds break, no roll
DIR By: chesley l warren
Date: August 22, 2012, 5:45 pm
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Well so much fer da rats !! My hodgepodge birds about 24
of'em, some 6,7, & 8 month old, they started breaking this week.
They fly big long circle, and I can just about tell when they
are gonna break, bout half of'em do but all I can see is birds
stopping fluttering, my ole eyes ain't what they use to be, but
danged if I can detect a roll, but they either want to or
either got fermented feed LOL whew, I know I ain't got none of
that. They do this stuff when I first let'm out and they will do
this about every other lap or so for about an hour, then they
just turn into homers!! My question is to anyone out
there---does this eventully turn in to some rollin later on or
is this , "what u see is what you get" I'm not sure , I don't
know. They did this stuff about 52 times in about an hour. The
ole parent birds can roll some, I chance letting them out now
and then, but not enought that they want to kit good. This is my
first real kit of birds that I've raised and if patience was
money I'd be wealthy! So if anyone has experienced this, I' like
to know where it leads to. Its the first sign of any attempt
close to a roll. Beats me. I am not kidding and Im not holding
anything back. Just don't know.. Comments
welcome,-------------chesley' Since I previewed this
statement, you might wanna strike that from the record about a
real kit of birds!! Hey laugh, it wont hurt, I don't care.
#Post#: 11471--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: Kevin Thao
Date: August 24, 2012, 12:09 am
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Hi Chesley, My birds do this too.
I think they are learning how to work together but the roll is
not there yet.
I think you need to give them more time.
My birds used to do this until they started getting deeper and
now whenever they break,they actually roll instead of flopping
and spinning in circles.
I"m not quite sure what the problem is but I think that they
just need time.
#Post#: 11472--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: windjammer loft
Date: August 24, 2012, 7:56 am
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Hi Chesley... If your not familiar with that family I would go
the the person that you got them from and ask him/her when you
should expect to see them start to roll... Maybe they can put
some input on what your birds should be doing and when they will
start... Good luck
#Post#: 11474--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: August 25, 2012, 9:52 am
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Hi Chelsley, without knowing your family of birds, how do you
train and feed them as well as manage them? You really haven't
provided enough information, to give you definitive responses,
also have you taken these questions to the guy you got your
birds from? What did he say? Did you do what he suggested?
Now here is some general information that may or may not be
useful to you, sounds like you have birds flying through the
breaks, slow them down. How high are they flying? Too high too
low? Change the feed. Is it windy? Wind can factor in birds not
rolling. Don't fly in wind that upsets the roll and gets them
flying loopy. Fly them 6 days a week for 60 to 90 minutes.
Experiment with diet. Nothing will impact the birds flying and
performance more than a proper diet and good intelligent
management.
Did you know competition guys would give their left nut to have
their birds doing half turns like you say your birds are doing
or are they just showing "action" and no real quality breaks? I
could go on but you still have "young" birds in the big scheme
of things, so just keep flying, feeding and managing them
properly, if they have the "juice" they will roll.
When thinking about patience with a kit of rollers, you haven't
shown enough patience until you have flown a kit and managed
them properly for at least two years. Anything less than that
you haven't finished your job yet. :D
#Post#: 11481--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: chesley l warren
Date: August 25, 2012, 8:53 pm
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thanks windjammer, Kevin, Tony, for the comments.The parents
of these birds are from at lest theree different familys maybe
one more? one pair i got out of Dayton Ohio. They have been
breeders' Had some bad luck with some sick ,some bop, some bad
judgement on my part. I didn.t know what to do with the first
kit , as far as training them. I culled when i probably
shouldn't have. Gave some away, got 4 birds left out of orginal
kit. They are mixed now with this kit that I'm flying . Those
4 roll. Anyway i got discusted, Decided to call Tony and finding
this web site. I told him I'd paid $300.00 for a coon dog one
time and I was ready to buy some birds from him, I;m tired of
junk.! Got 1pr grizzle whites, 2pr reg red rubys. I have 17
babies from them, using the hodgepodge parents of these birds
that i posted about. I can't comfortably answer question of
orgion. As for feeding i fix a mixture of 1 cup pellets ,1cup
wheat, 1cup milo. They began this breaking stuff, flutter or
what then get back to kit, but anyway of this mix i gave 24
birds 2 cup 1/4 of that , fly good trap good. I changed mix to
1p, 1w, 2 milo two week ago to see if it mak'em roll, does seem
to increase the breaks. I'm gonna leave them on that mix untill
1st Sept and then I plan to change to 1p,2w,1m, see what
happens. They might be just too young. as far as flyin, when I
flag them up they come out and climb very high for about 40
minute, they be at about 150' till they trap.No there is no wind
to speak of. I usually fly 6 days and rest them on sunday, As
far as intelligent management, I didn't know crap, thanks to
you guys I've learned a little, gotten tonys book etc. read it
several times, NBRC book, and picked up a little plain ole
common sence? then I wonder! As far as quality breaks ,no i
wouldn't think so, they just be flyin then several do some
crazy flutter droppin, and then it likethe other birds keeping
time untill these dummies get back to flyin, they dont roll,
seems like they just stop flutter some and sometime rest of
kit just disperse and then when all the flutter is done ,which
is only a second or two then they kit and fly again. all days
are not as much as were when i posted. No i dont have a kit of
birds older thhan these, so I've got some waiting to do, as far
as juice! I didn't think they did, now I'm not sure. The only
Juice that I have faith in, is the Rubys that I'm rasing lol. i
think its like kevin said these bird act as if they are
waiting to see what the other does, like working togather!I am
patient with them, cause I know I've got a potiental ace in the
hole 'rubys' I've never seen one roll, but Mr. Tom says they do,
and he says some could put the spin in a duck, hell I belive
him. OK I appreciate you all,cause if it wan't for this web I
wouldn't know what a kit box is!! thanks for all the :-[
help....Chesley
#Post#: 11482--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: August 25, 2012, 9:58 pm
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Okay, I am trying to understand you better, you are flying Ruby
Rollers? If so, how many and what are the approximate ages? Are
you flying them separate or with other strains and are they
breeders that you are flying? Are they flying out of kit boxes
or a large loft? Approximately how many tablespoons of the mix
are you giving them per day? Thanks!
#Post#: 11484--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: chesley l warren
Date: August 26, 2012, 3:15 pm
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No I'm not flying rubys yet. Don;t have any old enough, maybe 4.
These that I'm flying They are just a mix of birds i bought from
a near by local. I saw on this web that some one call birds
hodgepodge and i assumed that ment varity of most anything,, My
defenition of what Im flying is Heinz-57 varities!. I'm feeding
1 1/2 tablepsoon per bird, sometimes 1.3 if they start lazy
trappin. No i'm not flying breeders,these are the off spring of
the breeders, they are not rubys. I do fly them out of kit pin,
approx 3'w,5'h,6'long. I'm sorry for not being so clear, no
they aren't breeders. They hatched in dec,jan, and feb , this
yr dec of last yr. and i'm feeding once a day , I try to fly
about 7:30 am or 8, then feed when they come down. I'm thinking
they are still young, but it puzzles me as to why they do this
break looking stuff, flutter some and get back to kit. I suppose
what brought my question up in the first place was that i was
reading in nbcr i think, about judges and calling a roll a roll
not fluttering, to be miss interpented , and that got me to
thinking about these birds. I'm just a rookie, but I try to
watch a particular bird when they do this, and to be honest I
can't call it a roll. My question was has this happen to someone
else? Kevin last post said that happen to him, so maybe its just
time and more patience , I'm retired and spend too much time
watching birds to see what happen since the last time I went to
look at them!! I thought for a while no one was gonna comment
on my post. and i said to myself, Oh well guess I'm Nuts!!
Thanks for help. chseley
#Post#: 11485--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: August 27, 2012, 6:36 am
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Okay thanks for the clarification. ;D Now I understand that
you are flying birds less than a year old but have been flying
for 6 or more months. I always tell guys to properly feed and
manage them and let the birds genetics do the rest...here are my
suggestions based on my understanding that the birds are not
rolling properly but fluttering or perhaps showing "action" but
no rolling itself.
Here are some general thoughts; the birds are from differing
family lines, you are not sure if these birds were bred for roll
or if some old guy simply bred them in an open loft without any
regard to matching birds to roll properly suggesting to me that
they are not the higher quality type rollers that are available
from myself and some others.
So, you cannot get from them what IS NOT there! Of course this
hasn't been proven at this point but with a good program of
flying, feeding and management you should know within the next
few months if there is any roll in the mix.
I do not want to spend allot of time fixing what amounts to
someone else's responsibility to help you with if they are
selling birds but I will just say that a bird that is a frequent
roller may be just what fluttering birds need to have in order
to trigger the roll in the others. Get one of those, also, stop
the the pellets and put them on 100% wheat for 2 to 3 weeks.
This will shock their systems and agitate them more while
flying. Another thing, you may find that one or more birds
really are the culprit...start to remove and replace one or more
at a time from the kit and and see if they are following a
"leader" and not breaking due to this birds influence. Just like
you can have a trigger bird, you can have a bird that actually
upsets the natural chemistry of the team and simply throws them
off.
My sense is that your birds are old enough and are mature
rollers in that they are more than 6 months old. Time to get
them properly stimulated and flying 60 to 90 minutes for a
couple months and see what they have. It may be time to move on
from this group if you do not see any progress after 60 days.
Good luck! :D
#Post#: 11488--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: chesley l warren
Date: August 27, 2012, 12:43 pm
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Thanks again Tony, I'm appreciative that you spent time helping
me. These birds are all I have, untill I can get enough Rubys
raised. I can see some potiential in these birds, but not
enough to make me want to wait forever to find out. That is why
I bought Rubys. I plan to get rid of the birds we have been
discusing when I get more Rubys to breed from, fly from, etc. I
just want some birds to be proud of and put on a show when
friends come by. You have answered my questions and feeding
also.pointers on flying when I'm fully aware that you didn't
have to . I'm going to set some rubys out in training cage and
watch them awhile!! Thank you very much. Chesley
#Post#: 11494--------------------------------------------------
Re: birds break, no roll
DIR By: wishiwon2
Date: August 28, 2012, 12:28 am
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Keep in mind too that regardless the family, you will likely
raise only a few real good spinners compared to the percentage
of mediocre or lesser quality rollers. I guess Im saying have
realistic expectations of what you will produce. It sounds as
though you are flying a round or two of young. If you had 50% or
more that turned out to be dandies, you are ahead of the class.
Very typically production of good roll runs under 50%. You will
raise more culls than keepers if you have a high standard set
for yourself and your loft.
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