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#Post#: 11095--------------------------------------------------
no control of roll impulse
DIR By: slvrollers
Date: May 24, 2012, 3:53 pm
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I have a Roller that is starting to not be able to control the
roll impulse. He is about a year old and started out kiting and
rolling under control. The last three or four times i have flown
this roller he rolls about every 15 seconds. The rolls have been
getting deeper and today he bumped the roof of my house
slightly. He flew right back up to immediately roll 40 feet to
the ground. He did do it with good style. Rolled so fast it was
a blur. My question is can i breed this bird to one that rolls
only 10 feet and get good results? Or should i go a head and
cull this bird. I have all the foster breeders i need.
#Post#: 11096--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: May 24, 2012, 4:22 pm
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Hi Mike, give the bird a rest for a couple weeks and give it a
bit more protein. From what you said it seems the bird is
kicking it up a notch or two and is having trouble with it.
Treat it like a young bird that is starting the roll too early
for its maturity.
The EASY answer to your question is "no" don't breed from it. If
the roll velocity was turned up the second year and the bird has
that trait, use it. Get a couple rounds and see what happens.
See for YOURSELF!
#Post#: 11097--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: slvrollers
Date: May 24, 2012, 5:11 pm
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Hi Tony
I will rest this bird as you suggested and give it some more
protein and see what happens.
This birds is definitely taking its velocity and depth to a new
level. It has been gradually getting faster and deeper rolls.
Thanks Tony
#Post#: 11098--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: wishiwon2
Date: May 24, 2012, 6:32 pm
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slvrollers, you got some good advice from Tony C. Give it a
chance to get ahold of itself. Give some rest and extra feed.
One of 2 things will happen; it will figure it out and be able
to deal with the impulse and may go on to become a sound
performer OR it will continue to digress and become a rolldown
or outflier, neither to be trusted and of no use in a breeding
program. If you continue to fly it, I garuantee it will not stay
the same.
This is precisely the reason old timers (and I agree with them)
promoted flying birds a full 2 yrs. Most birds continue to
develope beyond the initial onset of rolling. Many will continue
to develope their rolling until they complete their first adult
molt.
I recommend you do not use it as a breeder. It is easy to breed
unstable, over cooked, bouncers. You will need to establish a
line in your mind about what you will tolerate in-so-far as
faults in your breeders. None of us have perfect birds. I have
bred from birds like you're describing and it was not a long
term productive decision. I did get some good qaulity spinners
but sooner or later, most of them would pull a dummy and roll
out of control. I understand when you are beginning, you must
make more allowances than once you're loft is established. Just
dont make excuses for birds. If it crosses your predetermined
line of unacceptable, stick to it. Fly it and enjoy it, but be
cautious and selective what you use to breed from. Best of luck!
#Post#: 11099--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: slvrollers
Date: May 24, 2012, 8:03 pm
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Thanks wishiwon2
More solid advice from you. I really appreciate you taking your
time to answer me back. I really thought this roller would have
to be culled. I will rest it, feed it more protein and fly it.
If it progresses I will keep it in the kit and if it gets worse
i will cull it. I wont even consider putting it in my breeding
loft if it does not prove it is worthy of being a breeder.
#Post#: 11114--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: LittleJohn
Date: June 1, 2012, 9:52 am
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Very interesting topic, and one I am sure will garner many
different opinions. I agree with the feed em up and rest idea
as a first measure. I had the same scenario play out in my own
loft this spring....twice.
Here's how it went...a solid kitbird that I have been flying for
2 years now, and raised from an egg...rolled down from about 120
feet. He survived, and into a pen by himself he went, all the
good food he could eat and fresh water daily.
Fed him up and rested him for a week, then put him back in with
the kit. Got back up to about 100 feet triggered...and down he
came again and splat...i walked over to pick him up and he took
off flying and went back up to about the same height and down he
came again all the way to the ground.
This is after a week of rest and good food. He is pretty much
done, I wont use him for breeding and he isnt really able to fly
is he...so what use is he to me? None...he is a feed
consumer...or a cull...call it what ya want. A few weeks later,
I had a hen do the identical same thing....and I gave her the
same treatment.
She rolled down repeatedly as well. She wasnt as fortunate
however and damaged one of her eyes on one of her splat
missions.
I have had only one bird that rolled down, that has "pulled"
out of that habit. I would tell you the story, but you
wouldn't believe it...hell I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't
seen it with my own eyes. Best of luck...hope it works out for
ya.
LittleJohn
#Post#: 11116--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: wishiwon2
Date: June 1, 2012, 1:15 pm
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--- Quote from: LittleJohn link ---
>
>
> I have had only one bird that rolled down, that has "pulled"
out of that habit. I would tell you the story, but you
wouldn't believe it...hell I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't
seen it with my own eyes. Best of luck...hope it works out for
ya.
>
> LittleJohn
>
--- End Quote ---
LJ, I have not had one I was completely able to remedy either. I
have, however, been able to extend the useful fly time for
several. Meaning I could get them through another season or two,
in the kit. Almost everyone that I have tried to work through
control issues has shown additional symptoms that it has taken
me years to recognize and relate to the underlying problem of
lack of control.
Hitting the ground, roof, etc are obvious symptoms (even though
it took me a while to admit they were a problem sometimes). I
believe the ability to control rolling if mapped out on a
continuum (line), would range from non performers on one extreme
to stone cold rolldowns on the other. In between would be a
myriad of excessive frequency (mad rollers), too deep, chronic
bumpers, outfliers and birds that roll at 'the wrong time'. All
are signs of control that each bird possess of the impulse to
roll. Yes, if you read this critically, I am saying I believe
that depth and frequency are regulated by the same mechanism and
are very closely related. There is a single roll impulse, how
that impulse is handled in each bird varies and can show up as
frequency, depth or timing.
Off track a little. I can and have fixed some lack of control in
individuals, but they almost always have shown other symptoms of
lacking control. I have not been able to ever resolve all of
them. Had I been wiser initially, I would have rid myself of
them when I first recognized they showed a problem. But, like I
said above, in some cases, I got a few more years of enjoyment
out of them in the kit before they did something else stupid
that caused me to move past them.
#Post#: 11308--------------------------------------------------
Re: update no control of roll impulse
DIR By: slvrollers
Date: July 10, 2012, 5:39 pm
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Hey Tony and Wishiwon2
You guys hit the nail right on the head. Some rest, protein and
a month an a half of time. This Roller is flying with the kit
and has worked through the roll impulse problems. It is flying
out of the roll with control and is rolling with the kit again.
Its the fastest spinner i have and 30 feet of depth. Its crazy i
thought for sure it would be a roll down and kill its self. It
could not fly twenty feet with out rolling. Thanks to your
advice I did not cull this bird.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#Post#: 11309--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: rubee
Date: July 12, 2012, 2:36 pm
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Great, slvrollers. I'm glad that the rest and feed has seemed
to work for your bird. I have a different problem--a 3 month
old bird that has been turning over fast only a few times each
has suddenly started to roll down and hit the ground. Could
this very young bird learn control with rest before I try her
again
or is she just going to kill herself eventually? What should I
do?
Thanks, Rubee
#Post#: 11310--------------------------------------------------
Re: no control of roll impulse
DIR By: slvrollers
Date: July 12, 2012, 5:52 pm
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Hi Rubee
My bird was starting to roll down. Several times it rolled to
the roof of my house to immediately fly up 20 feet then rolled
to the ground from 40 feet. Your bird is a lot younger then my
bird. I would say try the same thing Tony and wishiwon2 told me
to do. Feed more protein and rest. I fed it some high protein
pigeon pellets for a month and a half. I noticed right away
that it was rolling with control and could kit again. I would
say it is possible for this bird to get control again after
watching mine get it back together. Good luck
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