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#Post#: 10487--------------------------------------------------
Thoughts on South African Birds
DIR By: Johnnie Williams
Date: January 11, 2012, 6:57 pm
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I'm thinking about getting some S.A. birds--what are your
thoughts on them--are they as GOOD as some people think or
BETTER-- without mention names of breeders in USA give your
thoughts on them.
GOD Bless!!!!
#Post#: 10488--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts on South African Birds
DIR By: wishiwon2
Date: January 11, 2012, 9:44 pm
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Johnnie
I have never seen any perform first hand, so I cant fairly
comment on them. I can say that over the past 5-8 yrs fliers
from RSA have done proportionately better in WC competitions
than have fliers from anywhere else in the world. In my opinion
that speaks volumes about the birds they fly. I know in past
couple of years, much criticism has been leveled about judging
preferences and favoring different performance attributes over
others, but I dont think that can account for the overall sucess
South Africans have had since being included in WC competitions,
with a variety of judges, including from US.
I have had a few opportunities to visit with men who have seen
SA birds and judged them. It is my opinion that those birds
arent a huge advantage over what is already here in the US.
However, there are some subtle, refined differences that help
them excell in 20 bird competitions. The individual quality is
great but not supreme, depth potential is very good, teamwork is
great. Reportedly, they manage easy, maybe a bit towards the hot
side. One difference I have been told about is that the range or
variability from best to worst produced from those lines is
smaller than most of Pensom based lines in US.
The focus for breeders in US for decades, has been to produce
the best individual spinner possible. Building a kit or loft of
good birds has been a secondary effort, based on the success of
meeting the first goal. South African breeders have had a
different focus or goal in mind. That doesnt mean they settle
for inferior quality birds, but they are looking for more than a
superior individual, they are breeding for/building great kits
of high quality birds. They havent been inflluenced as much as
US breeders by 'tradition' and sentiment. They have not dabbled
with color or novelty projects.
Again, my opinon is based from 2nd hand information, reports and
a few conversations with breeders, not on having seen flown,
handling or flying myself these birds. I think there are equally
as good of quality of birds around within the US now, it
requires a bit of a paradigm shift on our part to match them in
all aspects and to move our birds/lofts forward in like manner.
I have no idea what it would cost to buy some, but I can only
imagine it would be cost prohibitive for me. Guys who have seen
the ones flying in WA state tell me they are the real deal, no
excuses.
#Post#: 10491--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts on South African Birds
DIR By: scott70
Date: January 12, 2012, 7:44 am
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hi Johnnie I have some of the blood line you are talking about
and am crossing the sa blood line with my masons to see what
happens as soon as I can get some young off them if you want I
will give you a couple young birds to try before you go and buy
any birds as far as how good they are I cant realy tell you yet
on that point as I am just starting with them my self.
You have some realy good birds from Cliff and Cliff has done
realy well with his birds so you have a good start already. I
would say there is no family out there that is going to take you
to the top right away it takes time with any family but I am
just starting out my self with them
#Post#: 10493--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts on South African Birds
DIR By: tom wingfield
Date: January 12, 2012, 9:04 am
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Johnny ,Wishinwon2 pretty much said it all , individual
performance is not on most all the compation flyers over seas
minds.. they breed to compete by the w. c. rules that
are in place.... kit performance....as i am sure you are aware
of more and more comp. flyers here are leaning towords wanting
to give credit for individual performance in compation flys and
changes in the rules to do so..on any given day every one likes
to see an out standing individual bird burn out of a kit , but
on compation day the rules state kit performance... i have
talked to several that own or have seen s. a. birds and mason
birds fly , they all say pretty much say the same thing , kit
tight and perform in unison........... I myself am going to
breed some masons to compare with the birds i have , but i
would not advise anyone to scrap what they have to do so , and i
would not cross to improve something in the birds i have before
i gave it a lot of time and real serious thought... The
birmingam man him self noted years ago compation will be the
demise of the true biringham roller.... my take on that has
always been he was speaking of the sought aftem " champion bird
" not the champion kit.... i strive for
#Post#: 10495--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts on South African Birds
DIR By: 2y4life
Date: January 12, 2012, 10:20 am
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Wishiwon2 hit it spot on. I haven't seen any SA birds but have
seen Wayne Feder's Mason's perform and they are top notch in
terms of kitting, concert performance/breaking together,
workrate, and big breaks.
BTW, Wishiwon2, I think it's time you change your screen name
lol. You've won the big one already...and it's time for me to
change my name to "WishIWon2" lol.
#Post#: 10498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts on South African Birds
DIR By: Steve49
Date: January 12, 2012, 4:49 pm
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keep in mind, the mason's are very similar to what the SA's are
flying. they both share similar birds in their pedigrees. and
another point, if you presently have mason's, which i also have
started with last year, do not mix them with other families when
flying them. the whole concept of kit performance and breaking
together cannot be brought out unless they fly slow enough to
setup together. this was told to me by two very exceptional
roller men. one switched to masons over 10 years ago. the other
started with masons last year, and brought some SA birds to the
US to breed pure and also to cross some with the masons. again,
the teamwork is one of their fine points, as told to me, and why
they interested me. since i couldn't get SA birds at the time,
the next best thing was the masons. i'll know better this year,
as i only bred 12 last year, and they only got to fly two months
before lockdown.
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