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#Post#: 10240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: joeb Date: December 8, 2011, 10:12 am
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Not sure why anyone would consider yellow or cream as a "rare"
color. It is simply the dilute of ash red or recessive red. So
if you consider cream or yellow a rare color, then I guess you
consider ash red a rare color as well. Makes no sense to me. I
have bred many dilutes in both cream and silver from my old
Vaughn line of Pensom rollers. They all spin well, the creams or
yellows tend to be a little unstable, in fact I have never had
one make it past the 3rd year without crashing.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
#Post#: 10241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: 2y4life Date: December 8, 2011, 10:32 am
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I understand genetics enough now to know that yellow and cream
are nothing more than dilute ash red.
Anyhow, here is a picture of one of Pensom's champion hens WHILE
HE WAS STILL IN ENGLAND. More proof that Pensom had cream long
before he came to the states:
[img width=640
height=480]
HTML http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m256/M_K_Y/Pigeons/DSC00276.jpg[/img]
#Post#: 10242--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: trammell Date: December 8, 2011, 10:37 am
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hey all im new to the breeding aspect but i have many colors in
my loft i got black, blue, white bars, i have spread ash red, i
have solid reds. i have a yellow cock with white specs in face
and hen she is solid, i have tortus shells. i got bald heads
ect.
i pretty much got em all but how do you get opal?
how do you get creams?
how do you get bronze?
please explain in beginner terms i dont know what recessive and
all that means. if you have hatched some of these before just
tell me what two color birds u used to get that. I think i got
the birds to get what i want but i just dont know which ones to
put together.
#Post#: 10243--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: trammell Date: December 8, 2011, 10:40 am
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and joeb ive been looking for a yellow bald head for a long time
and i havent found one so it may be kinda rare. ive only had one
and when i was buying him the guy let it slip out his hand and
the bird was gone. so if you got one of those ill take them
all.....
marvintrammell87@yahoo.com
#Post#: 10244--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: Cliff Ball Date: December 8, 2011, 10:47 am
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[quote author=2y4life link=topic=808.msg10239#msg10239
date=1323359911]
Oh, I'm not discounting Yellows at all because I know they can
perform. Dick Kollman said one of the best birds he saw when he
judged the NCF last year was a yellow bird in Don Simpson's 2010
Championship kit.
I know there are alot of guys that still consider yellow to be a
"color/rare" bird and my question is "Is cream considered to be
a rare color too like yellow is among many fanciers?"
[/quote]
Toe,
Yes, I know that you have no anti-yellow or anti-color agenda.
And I am very familiar with Don Simpson's yellow in his National
Championship kit. I have seen her in the air many times, having
judged her in the regionals the year he won. And I agree with
the judge's assessemnt of the bird's performance (as did the
gallery.)
So I would answer your question like this. Any misinformed
individual who considers yellow to be a rare color, is just as
likely to consider cream to be a rare color, since a cream bar
is a dilute ash red bar, just as a yellow check is a dilute ash
red check. Another question that I have always wondered is why
they reject the dilute of ash red (yellow), yet accept the
dilute of blue (silver). Dilute is dilute. I seriously doubt the
color modifier in itself has any relationship to performance.
Yet it is illogical to accept one dilute as part of the Pensom
family and reject the other.
JMHO,
Cliff
#Post#: 10245--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: joeb Date: December 8, 2011, 12:57 pm
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Trammel,
I gave 2 yellow bald head cocks away last summer before I left
Kansas. John Hayworth got one and Frank Roberts got the other.
The only dilutes I brought with me to Texas are silvers.
To answer your question on how you get yellows, the easiest way
is to get an ash red cock that carries dilute and mate it to an
ash red hen. You will get 25% dilute hens, breed the best one
back to her sire and you will get a percentage of dilute cocks.
Can't answer your question on opal as I have no experience with
that factor.
Bronze is simply a manifestation of a bird carrying kite or
recessive red. Mated to a blue check or bar should produce some
birds with bronze.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
#Post#: 10246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: joeb Date: December 8, 2011, 1:04 pm
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Cliff,
You and I are in total agreement on this issue. In my particular
family, the creams tend to be a little unstable so I generally
breed away from yellow or cream. The silvers hang pretty good,
can't explain it, just a quirk with this Vaughn family. I love
the look of a good cream bar or yellow check better than the
silvers but the silvers in this family tend to be better in the
air. I have seen some very good yellows or creams over the years
so I know they do work out well in some cases.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
#Post#: 10256--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's color birds
By: Ty Coleman Date: December 8, 2011, 5:19 pm
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Joe, what about the ash reds in the family ? How do they stack
up ?
Trammel, to get opal you must have it. There was a rec opal
project going on years ago but I think it flunked out. So to
have it you will have to see it. You metioned you had white
bars, that is one of 3 gene's. opal,reduced,or stencil. Post a
picture and i'll try and help you figure it out.
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