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#Post#: 10203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: oldfart Date: December 6, 2011, 8:14 pm
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Marvin, I understand we will never have a meeting of the minds
but I would at least try to make my point. I care tooo much for
my birds to set them free in to nature. Free to starve because
they do not know how to find food because I have fed them from
the day they hatched. Free to be killed and suffer while being
eaten alive or free to hide and slowly freeze to death or
....... I cull, it is quick and there is no long drawn out
suffering. Culling is a neccessery part of keeping and managing
a loft properly.
I am finished
Thom
#Post#: 10204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: nephilim Date: December 6, 2011, 8:58 pm
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Hi All.
This is my first post with you guys! So hello from
England. I'm not sure I'm totally getting the point of this
thread/topic. But to add my little point is:- That in the
loft/coop we the keeper is god, we provide food,water and a safe
place to live sleep and breed. So therefore it's down to us who
lives and who dies. We being roller men are probabley more
relaxed than the racing man, to what lives in our world! The
racing man will cull the smaller chick in the nest, the bird
that doesn't home in an acceptable time, the bird that spends to
long on the house roof, when returning from a race, the bird
that is constantly late in training. And if the bird is reported
as a stray. I know this as I've been there. All in the persuit
of perfection. Does the racing man sell on his unwanted birds?
Not always, for if it's not good enough for him, it's not good
for anyone.And think of the reputation if a below par bird is
moved on and mocked by others that watch it fly, it wont be I
took it to save it's life, more like this is from a so called
champ flyer. Although with the current climate of finacial
hardship, some of the not so goods could be spared a short life.
I myself only got back into rollers around april this year and
have bred 10 birds! Of those as I type this only 3 look like
they will breed next year. I also culled a whole round of
youngsters and a hen along with her 2 young. To me she wasn't a
good mother and the chicks looked sick and feeble. I culled a
whole round because my corn supplier didnt have the corn I had
been using, and the youngsters where just not growing as good as
the previous round on the stuff i had to use. To the guy who
feeds his sick birds to the hawk, why? what about the fear the
bird has in it's last few moments? and are you not bringing the
hawks to your door? These predetors are not daft birds they know
about routine, and will become dependant, then your flock will
be on the menu. Well hope i've sort of got the point, and I
hope i've not offended anyone.
#Post#: 10205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: raul carreiro Date: December 6, 2011, 9:19 pm
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Hi nephilim, welcome to the site! Very well written and thought
out post! What strain of birds are you flying/breeding? I fly
Rubys and Bob Brown birds.
#Post#: 10206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: Tiraderoller Date: December 6, 2011, 10:54 pm
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Marvin,
Culling is ones own choice, right or wrong for you, but taking
your "sick" birds away from your loft and letting them go for
BOP bait is not a wise decision at all. If your "sick" bird
evades predators it could then spread what ever illness it has
to wild birds, whether they be BOPs or songbirds, it doesn't
matter, but that is worse than ending its life by your own hand.
Imagine how many birds could be infected by doing this! It may
seem inhumane to you, but killing many birds by allowing one
sick to have a last shot at freedom is far worse. Just my two
cents, but think about it!
Paul
#Post#: 10209--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: nephilim Date: December 7, 2011, 5:26 am
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Hi raul.
Thanks for the welcome. Ive kept rollers off and on
for forty years. My current birds are bred down from two
competion flyers and one pleasure flyer. The pleasure flyer has
had the same strain of birds for nearly thirty five years, and
when he wants to add some new blood he goes back to the original
guy who started him up[who's kept the same family for sixty
years] occasionaly he'll buy from a club auction, his birds are
mainly reds, red grizzle or red spangle they start to turn at
about six months and are tight short spinner doing about ten
feet or two seconds. The comp breed birds are a mix of colours
blues, black badge, grizzle and dark checker. Of these one
family are very loose wingy type when they turn and although
deeper don't look as neat, they do around the depth of two
storeys, these birds start turning around six months also. The
final family are inter bred and are various colours these birds
take there time in starting to turn, but when they do watch out!
They are very deep and are very fast [I wait to hear the dull
thud as they hit the roof or floor] on the whole they have good
control over there spinning, although are very late to start,
some being around the ten month when they start! Which I think
is no bad thing, as they've learnt to extend there flying time
and seem to manage in the windy weather better. I beleive that
observation is the key with the birds watch every move they
make, how they behave in the coop, with other birds, how they
feed, are they a picker, a seed chaser or just head down no
messing eater? My dad used to keep pigeons and budgies{which he
flew out during the breeding season!!!} He told me to watch the
birds, and as we've read on here on more than one occasion
Pensom could pick a good bird on the perch, my dad does the
same. He looked at my birds a few weeks ago and said which he
would pair to which. I don't know if he sits in his car a few
blocks away and watches or genuinely have the knack. Maybe
listening to him has passed something on to me. I recently went
to a fellow flyers house to collect a bird that had gone
missing. I didn't know the guy nor his birds, had never been
anywhere near his place, yet after chatting and looking at his
birds I managed to pick out his best birds from an open shed
while they fed on the floor! My set up is two sheds one ten by
six foot the other eight by six foot. I don't fly to kit boxes,
I understand the theory behind using them. But I have also kept
race birds and they kit very well, without the use of a kitbox!
I keep my birds on a semi darkness system, and when I open the
trap to let them out they're bouncing all over the place, like a
little child on a visit to the candy store, just waiting to fly.
Wow think I've took quite a lot of room and maybe branched from
the original subject a little. I really enjoy reading the
threads and post on this site, and hope to add to them in the
future. Regards
#Post#: 10210--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: oldfart Date: December 7, 2011, 7:32 am
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Nephilim, Welcome and I am certian you will make a fine addition
to this list! :) We can be a bit testy sometimes but overall,
not so bad. ;D
I look forward to reading your posts.
Take care
Thom
#Post#: 10538--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: windjammer loft Date: January 22, 2012, 8:08 am
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I can certainly understand the sensitivity of this subject. I
guess when some people "hear" the word CULL, the first things
that comes to mind is for it to be killed. Which for some, is
HARD to take. Culling, doesn't necessarily need to be done in
that manner. In our case, some do think that way, which I am one
of them. BUT..... if you have the room, you could just keep all
your culls separated, fly them, enjoy them but, "NEVER" breed
them. You just need to find out where your comfort level is...
Hope this puts some of you at ease...
#Post#: 10541--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: oldfart Date: January 23, 2012, 6:07 pm
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Hey Paul, Culling is a necessary part of pigeon keeping and none
more then the performance breeds suffers because of the
hesitancy of some breeders. Even if there is enough room, money
and time to keep them all it distracts a loft from moving
forward. There are legitimate reasons for keeping birds that
other wise would be a cull. Use as fosters would justify keeping
such birds but giving them to newbie’s would not. Many prefer to
turn them loose into “The Wild” thinking this a kindness but the
truth is most will starve and even if they survive only add to
the wild pigeon population within cities or cause farmers
problems. I urge everyone to cull with the thought of improving
the performance of our breed for the enjoyment of everyone.
Take care my friend
Thom
#Post#: 10542--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: windjammer loft Date: January 24, 2012, 8:03 am
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Thom... I agree with YOU 110%.. I do cull hard. But, for those
who "won't, can't or don't believe in culling". These are just
bird keepers.. To me they are "more" damaging to our hobby
(sport) then the BOP. Just my opinion I am trying to cut these
people some slack and be easy on them...haha
#Post#: 10544--------------------------------------------------
Re: Culling And Selective Breeding
By: oldfart Date: January 24, 2012, 5:58 pm
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Joe, It will not effect my loft either but I would like to see
the hobby grow. If a newbie starts with inferior birds he will
lose interest and leave without ever knowing how great our birds
really are.
Paul, I like the way you think! :)
Take care my friends
Thom
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