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#Post#: 8595--------------------------------------------------
Flying to FAST...
DIR By: windjammer loft
Date: August 17, 2011, 7:08 am
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This is for Oldfart or anyone else flying Ruby's for an extended
period of time. This is my first year fo flying Ruby youngsters.
Thom... do your birds fly "fast" and still roll? The reason I
ask is, my youngsters (15) range from 4 - 6 months old. I house
and fly them all together. Iam getting some flips and some tail
rides but, no rolling as of yet. Is this normal, or do I need
to wait alittle longer and adjust their feed?? I feed them a
pigeon mix of wheat/milo/peas. About 1 1/2 to 2 cups, after they
fly. What's your take??
#Post#: 8598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: August 17, 2011, 9:58 am
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Hey Paul, a little more information is needed...
1: how long are the birds flying on average?
2: how long have they been flying as a team?
3: How many days a week are you flying them?
4: What are you feeding them and what amounts per bird?
5: Have you considered removing the oldest birds (5 to 6 months)
to their own kit?
Also, the best roller kits are made of the "best of" birds over
multiple years. So rather than trying to get birds that are
younger than say about 6 months to roll, focus on building good
habits i.e. kitting properly, trapping in fast on landing,
flying the time required to develop "prowess" in the air,
etc...the performance will come...
Try to do too much with feed to get performance when they are
young will be frustrating for you and hinder their development
unnecessarily. Just manage the birds properly over the first 6
months or so and the roll will come on its own. Its in the
blood.
You will find some birds develop early regardless of your
efforts, I don't get too excited about this as now its a bird
that I may have to babysit to make sure it is getting proper
feed, I have to handle it and move it around from this pen to
that pen to make sure it stays even with the rest...
I would rather have a bird that is marginally rolling and not
very deep (a couple feet) as a young bird and then once it
reaches maturity (say 6 months and beyond) see it go to another
level, at this point is when I will work with the feed and
training regimen to see what it can really do.
==
As for slowing them down, too much protein will get them too
strong and cause fast flying, not enough and they want to land
early. Try reducing the protein content and adding some milo.
Make a gradual reduction, not too fast. Also, think in terms of
quantity for a young pigeon of about 2 to 3 tablespoons per bird
to fill full. Use this merely as a benchmark and make your
changes from there.
* Protein will build muscle, feather and body
* Carbo will generate energy
* Fat can add girth which might slow bird down but also cause it
to not want to fly very long
Develop a chart to track progress. Create a benchmark and begin
making changes until you have the performance you expect.
#Post#: 8599--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: oldfart
Date: August 17, 2011, 10:09 am
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Hey Paul, I will speak about "my" birds. I feed 1/3 wheat/1/3
milo/ 1/3 peas. 16.3% protein/67.1 carb./1.9 fat ( I augment
with safflour seed during the moult). I also fly a few old birds
in with each kit. I fly with the sexes seperated, with the
exception of very young cocks in with the hens until thay can
hang with the cock kit.
I feed twice a day even on a non-flying day. I fly as early as I
possible in order to get both kits in, normally my birds fly 1
to 1/2 hours or longer.
My birds come into the roll around six months, more or less. I
don't worry that much about how they fly until after the moult
as long as they kit and do their time. Once they are starting to
act as a team, kitting well and preforming together, I adjust
the feed. To increase roll, I increase wheat and peas, to slow
their wing beat, I feed slightly more milo but do not decrease
the wheat and peas. When I intend to fly early, I feed late, 12
hours from the intended flying time. From this basic point, it
is all in flying/resting/feeding mixture and timing. Once into
the roll and kitting they must have rest days to rebuild and
form muscle. The harder they work, the more rest, after a hard
work day they get two days rest, not so great of a fly, they get
one days rest.
Paul, my Ruby's come into the roll around six months but I have
learned to have patience. I never judge them until then next
year and only cull the most sever cases, "true roll downs " not
bumpers", non kitters that have been given every chance, tree
sitters get one or two chances.
Good luck my friend
Take care
Thom
#Post#: 8609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: bman
Date: August 17, 2011, 2:16 pm
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I'll throw in my two cents and you can keep the change. If they
are flying at least an hour (once a day). I would cut them back
to 1 1/4 cups maybe 1/4 to have being wheat.
But for the mosy part the youngsters tend to go through that
stage. As long as they are kitting,trapping and flying about an
hour it will pass. A lot of my original Rubies where coming into
the roll at 6-8 months. Now it 4-6 months. this will bring alot
of crossfire but at 6 months the majority of there feed is
wheat.
ron
#Post#: 8622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: windjammer loft
Date: August 17, 2011, 8:25 pm
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I guess Tony get first info....hehehe
(1) on average they fly 30 - 50 mins
(2) all but 5 have been flying as a team for about 2 -3 weeks.
I have just been putting the youngsters in the kit box as I wean
them. The last 5 were add within the last week and are just
flying around all overby themselves still.
(3) I have been flying them at least 5 days aweek
except for when it has been rainning. Once in awhile I fly them
twice daily. Early mornings and early evenings.
(4) I have a mix of wheat/milo/peas and saflower. I don't feed
individual grains. Usually 2 cups for the 15 birds. Or I try to
use the 1 tbl per bird theroy.
(5) I wasn't sure about separating them. That's why I house them
altogether in 1 kitbox.
Thom and Ron.. I will also take your comments to heart and put
them to use.
Thanks so much for all your advise guys..
#Post#: 8624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: August 17, 2011, 11:25 pm
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Paul.. at around that age I start slowing them down with Wheat .
--- Quote from: windjammer loft link ---
>
> This is for Oldfart or anyone else flying Ruby's for an
extended period of time. This is my first year fo flying Ruby
youngsters. Thom... do your birds fly "fast" and still roll?
The reason I ask is, my youngsters (15) range from 4 - 6 months
old. I house and fly them all together. Iam getting some flips
and some tail rides but, no rolling as of yet. Is this normal,
or do I need to wait alittle longer and adjust their feed?? I
feed them a pigeon mix of wheat/milo/peas. About 1 1/2 to 2
cups, after they fly. What's your take??
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8625--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: oldfart
Date: August 18, 2011, 6:26 am
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Hey Scott, I can only speak about my birds but I have found
exactly the reverse. Wheat jacks my birds up, increases the roll
and depth
to the extent that I have to be careful and only increase wheat
in small amounts. Milo slows them down in flying speed and wing
beat.
I do not know if this is management or family oriented. I know
other Ruby flyers that feed almost straight wheat with success.
Take care my friend
Thom
#Post#: 8626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: August 18, 2011, 7:52 am
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Thom.. it takes about four days, it is a slower approuch than
Milo due to Milo is just more of a fill feed . Milo I will use
to get them where I want fast .. but I prefere the slower route.
I think what you are seeing with the Wheat is the intitial bump
of stimulation due to diet change . What many reading this stuff
need to understand is that you don't feed these ind. seeds
forever . If I use Wheat I'm still going to pound Protien to
them once a week or so.
--- Quote from: oldfart link ---
>
> Hey Scott, I can only speak about my birds but I have found
exactly the reverse. Wheat jacks my birds up, increases the roll
and depth
> to the extent that I have to be careful and only increase
wheat in small amounts. Milo slows them down in flying speed and
wing beat.
> I do not know if this is management or family oriented. I know
other Ruby flyers that feed almost straight wheat with success.
> Take care my friend
> Thom
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: oldfart
Date: August 18, 2011, 11:26 am
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Hey Scott, I will give the wheat another try ( with caution )
and allow plenty of time for the birds to adjust. I would
however like to ask why you think milo is just a "fill feed"
true it is not as protein rich as wheat but milo at 11.3%
protein/71.3% carb/ 2.9 fat as compared with wheat 15.2%
protein/ 70.9 carb/ 1.8 fat does not seem to be just a filler
but rather another means to fine tune the protein intake. Just
courious. :)
Take care my friend
Thom
#Post#: 8634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying to FAST...
DIR By: Joe Asaro
Date: August 18, 2011, 12:35 pm
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Thom.... Where are they in the molt? Changing feed could put
them back in another molt if they are done. ;D Joe
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