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#Post#: 8586--------------------------------------------------
Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: Paul Conway
Date: August 16, 2011, 2:28 pm
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Hi folks, the more I read of Mr. Pemson the more I'm coming to
believe that he was not in favor of the competitions as are
presently held. IF I'm reading things right he was
consistently talking about that one "Champion" bird that could
spin far, fast and tight. I believe I also read where there
were one on one "competitions" so to speak between fliers for
bragging rights ,etc. So my thought is that Mr. Pensom be in
favor of (that takes onions saying doesn't it) what racing
pigeon fanciers are doing- one loft races. I'm not advocating
doing it, I'm not saying we should, etc, etc, etc. I'm just
saying that putting 8,10, 15 birds up from different lofts and
judging the most frequent, deepest, fastest, tightest bird as a
Champion would strike at the heart of how Mr. Pensom viewed
birmingham rollers. Am I comprehending Mr. Pensom's writtings
correctly? Thanks folks. Now I really gott get to my firewood
cutting. Paul Conway.
#Post#: 8587--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: joeb
Date: August 16, 2011, 3:28 pm
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Paul,
I believe you are reading his writings in the same light as I
am. Mr Pensom cautioned against kit competition as a danger to
the breed. If this instantaneous break business that the Euros
are pushing takes hold it will not be good for the breed as a
whole. JMHO ???
Keep em spinning
Joe B
#Post#: 8588--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: 2y4life
Date: August 16, 2011, 4:33 pm
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I believe it was in 1962 that Mr. Pensom wrote an article
clearly stating that a kit of 20 champions would not do well in
a 20 bird competition. He clearly states that you could only
have 3-4 first class rollers and then the rest would have to be
"junk rollers" and that type of kit would do well in
competitions.
When getting 20 birds (or x amount of birds) to break at the
same time is the ultimate goal and way to score points, that's
when roller competition stops being about the roll. I believe,
as Pensom did, that the focus should always be about, first and
foremost, the quality of the roll. That's ultimately what we
should be breeding for. I'm with both of you on this. These are
rollers are animals, not humans so I don't know why this
instantaneous breaking is so important. The 1/2 second rule
should've been suffice a blink of an eye is even less than half
a second. To demand instantaneous breaking from rollers in order
to score is demanding fanciers to focus more on the
instantaneous breaking than the actually quality and depth of
the roll. Just my two cents.
#Post#: 8591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: donnie james
Date: August 16, 2011, 8:01 pm
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hay paul,
you brought out some good points in your post i like to see this
happen but they're not going to do this i'm thinking that
everyone else is thinking their bird(s) wouldn't do as good as
the next follow bird(s) i'm willing to try this if everyone else
is ............................donnie james
#Post#: 8593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: bman
Date: August 17, 2011, 5:05 am
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Is that not what the 11 bird fly for?
Ron
#Post#: 8594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: Paul Conway
Date: August 17, 2011, 5:45 am
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Hi Ron,
since birds can be scored if they roll individually and
scored on how depth and quality I would think that's more in
line with the exceptional individual performer. Curious as to
how it's actually scored by judges. Can a kit with an
exceptional peformer and a bunch of average performers beat a
kit with 4,5,6 good rollers in it? and should it?
I'm not looking to say that competitions are inherintly
flawed. Maybe the opposite It seems to me that Birminham
Rollers are "kit" birds at thier heart. It's as much a part of
them as is the roll. My thoughts right now are that the roll,
of course, is the number one consideration for a good roller,
but kitting is number 2, if not 1A. Competitions, especially
the larger kit competitions favor the collective over the
individual. I'm thinking that Pensom's statement that
competitions are bad for the breed has some truth to it and
some untruth in it. You can indeed hide some average performers
being carried by your good performers, but to favor the
individual over the kit as a whole is going away from the
nature of the birmingham roller as much as breeding sloppy
rollers. and yes, I've been leaning over a chainsaw for long
hours the last couple of days breathing in gas/oil mixed fumes.
Not trying to create a controversy, just looking for some
thoughts on this is all. Paul Conway.
#Post#: 8597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: windjammer loft
Date: August 17, 2011, 7:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
First of all, let me say that Iam not a believer in Comp Flying
as it stands. Their are way too many variables that can affect
the type of preformance of the birds. I don't believe that "we"
have that much control of our birds as to make them all break at
the same time consistancely. No matter how many birds are in a
"kit". To my liking, I would like to see the fly rules gone over
with a fine tooth comb and adjustments made accordingly. Kinda
bring things up to date, so to speak.... Lets bring the rules up
todate with the birds of the "now" generation.. Plus, "not"
leave it up to the individual judges "personel expectations" on
how the birds should preform...
#Post#: 8601--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: August 17, 2011, 10:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Paul.. at that time competition was flown under Competition
Tumbler rules .. no min quality or depth rules applied. If they
wiggled at the same time it scored. Not the case today, the
rules are in place for Birmingham Rollers and not tumblers.
--- Quote from: Paul Conway link ---
>
> Hi folks, the more I read of Mr. Pemson the more I'm coming to
believe that he was not in favor of the competitions as are
presently held. IF I'm reading things right he was
consistently talking about that one "Champion" bird that could
spin far, fast and tight. I believe I also read where there
were one on one "competitions" so to speak between fliers for
bragging rights ,etc. So my thought is that Mr. Pensom be in
favor of (that takes onions saying doesn't it) what racing
pigeon fanciers are doing- one loft races. I'm not advocating
doing it, I'm not saying we should, etc, etc, etc. I'm just
saying that putting 8,10, 15 birds up from different lofts and
judging the most frequent, deepest, fastest, tightest bird as a
Champion would strike at the heart of how Mr. Pensom viewed
birmingham rollers. Am I comprehending Mr. Pensom's writtings
correctly? Thanks folks. Now I really gott get to my firewood
cutting. Paul Conway.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8602--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: August 17, 2011, 10:45 am
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Paul .. you are incorrect on this point , it takes work and
experence to pull it all in together. A hard working team of
hammers is the ultimate . But it aint easy, nor are they a dime
a dozen.
--- Quote from: windjammer loft link ---
>
> First of all, let me say that Iam not a believer in Comp
Flying as it stands. Their are way too many variables that can
affect the type of preformance of the birds. I don't believe
that "we" have that much control of our birds as to make them
all break at the same time consistancely. No matter how many
birds are in a "kit". To my liking, I would like to see the fly
rules gone over with a fine tooth comb and adjustments made
accordingly. Kinda bring things up to date, so to speak.... Lets
bring the rules up todate with the birds of the "now"
generation.. Plus, "not" leave it up to the individual judges
"personel expectations" on how the birds should preform...
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8606--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pensom's view on competition
DIR By: Joe Asaro
Date: August 17, 2011, 1:32 pm
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The big thing that turned it around to blood thirsty competition
and all rolling at the same time is the thirst of the MONEY
payout.Simple as that.Pensom was right on. :D Joe
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