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#Post#: 7848--------------------------------------------------
Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: cokoboi
Date: June 28, 2011, 3:48 pm
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I was wondering, when you are trying to breed the best kid back
to their parents, do you try to color match them like a red
check kid with its blue check parent or it doesn't matter as
long as it is the best kid?
#Post#: 7849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: charles_b
Date: June 28, 2011, 4:04 pm
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My opinion is that if you are not interested in breeding
specific colours then you should go for the best bird back to
the parent bird.
#Post#: 7850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: cokoboi
Date: June 28, 2011, 5:02 pm
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Good thinking charles_b. That's what I'm guessing too. But you
know how they say that sometimes breeding different colored
birds will balance out the roll. That's what I heard.
#Post#: 7863--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: WhiteWing
Date: June 30, 2011, 8:05 am
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cokoboi, you are referring to color balancing. Some are for it,
and some are against it. It's just whatever your personal
opinion is on the matter. Personally, I believe that there is
such a thing as color balancing your matings and I have found it
to be self evident. Others will argue and tell you that there
is no such thing, but I have found it to be a useful tool in
breeding quality rollers.
-Caleb
#Post#: 7864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: wishiwon2
Date: June 30, 2011, 3:01 pm
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I believe there is some value in color balancing in your
breeding. It is way down on the list of importance of priorities
to look for, though. I also think if your breeding as tight as
parent to offspring, color balancing wont matter as much.
I consider red check a hard color anyway same with blue check so
there is little to balance there, unless you have grizzle,
spread, smokey, bronze, pied or other factors in conjunction
with the base color. Straight-up ash red is considered basically
same as blue as being close to wild type, or hard colored,
strength side.
I dont mate that close, parent to offspring, except in rare
cases. I usually try to put ash red to blue, just so that ash
red doesnt dominate my loft, being that it is genetically
dominant.
#Post#: 7867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: Fhtfire
Date: June 30, 2011, 7:07 pm
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You guys already know where I stand on close breeding...NO CAN
DO G.I......Again, I feel that close inbreeding is just a
tool...a tool that should be used only if warranted. An example
is when you may or may not bring in a birds that carries
something that your birds don't have. If you breed that outcross
to you stock and it hits...then you breed back to try and lock
that trait in...then once you have it you should not inbreed any
further...no need. Inbreeding is ONLY to lock in a trait or
ATTEMPT to lock in a trait.
I feel people inbreed now just because they heard it is the
thing to do...or they got a good shot by doing once or
twice...again..continuing to inbreed leads to inbred
depression....and inbred depression is not obvious...like a
third leg growing or an extra eye. It can be as subtle as poor
eggs, low mortality rates and immune system deficiencies as
examples....
I myself again...do not do it unless I had to or unless I see a
need and I have yet to see either.
rock and ROLL
Paul
#Post#: 7894--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: raul carreiro
Date: July 1, 2011, 11:40 am
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--- Quote from: Fhtfire link ---
>
> You guys already know where I stand on close breeding...NO CAN
DO G.I......Again, I feel that close inbreeding is just a
tool...a tool that should be used only if warranted. An example
is when you may or may not bring in a birds that carries
something that your birds don't have. If you breed that outcross
to you stock and it hits...then you breed back to try and lock
that trait in...then once you have it you should not inbreed any
further...no need. Inbreeding is ONLY to lock in a trait or
ATTEMPT to lock in a trait.
>
> I feel people inbreed now just because they heard it is the
thing to do...or they got a good shot by doing once or
twice...again..cont inuing to inbreed leads to inbred
depression....and inbred depression is not obvious...like a
third leg growing or an extra eye. It can be as subtle as poor
eggs, low mortality rates and immune system deficiencies as
examples....
>
> I myself again...do not do it unless I had to or unless I see
a need and I have yet to see either.
>
> rock and ROLL
>
> Paul
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi Paul, I respect your opinion on the use of inbreeding!
However The fact is in all animals and birds the most successful
have been those who utilize and continue to inbreed!! Yes it is
only a tool, when used correctly it will and has been proven for
over a centry to be the best availible method of breeding, again
when used correctly! One only has to look at Thourbred Horses,
Racing pigeons and even inbred plant varieties as only a few
examples that inbreeding has proven time and again to be the
most succesful avenue!! As you state you will only inbreed if
there is a trait that you wish to establish in your line, we
must remember that more likely than not the bird/birds you will
use for the trait are the results of inbreeding! For example
were not the Rubys that you incorperated into your line inbred?
I must add that like you I too agree that to close inbreeding
such as father/daughter matings carried on for many generations
can lead to in time to inbreeding depression! JMHO
#Post#: 7903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: wishiwon2
Date: July 1, 2011, 6:23 pm
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--- Quote from: Fhtfire link ---
> I feel people inbreed now just because they heard it is the
thing to do...or they got a good shot by doing once or
twice...again..cont inuing to inbreed leads to inbred
depression....and inbred depression is not obvious...like a
third leg growing or an extra eye. It can be as subtle as poor
eggs, low mortality rates and immune system deficiencies as
examples....
>
> I myself again...do not do it unless I had to or unless I see
a need and I have yet to see either.
--- End Quote ---
I agree full heartedly Paul. I know there are lots of people who
use it. Some guys use it wisely, others do it because thats what
they heard would work. There is no 'golden plan' for breeding
rollers. A breeder must first have a specific goal or focus, the
methods used to get there are less important that what the
desired outcome is.
--- Quote from: raul carreiro link ---
>
> One only has to look at Thourbred Horses, Racing pigeons and
even inbred plant varieties as only a few examples that
inbreeding has proven time and again to be the most succesful
avenue!!
--- End Quote ---
Raul,
I dont think that is true in performance/production bred
animals. Horses, dogs, cattle etc that are the most sucessful
are those that are linebred much more than inbred, a subtle but
important distinction. You are right about horticulture and
plant breeding, but hybrids are king in that arena. Not so for
performing rollers
#Post#: 7916--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: Jay_Mua_Lee
Date: July 2, 2011, 1:30 am
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Cokoboi,
You must know what is a True Birmingham Roller and you must
understand the word PERFORMANCE and what is your purpose of
raising roller?
:D
Jay........
#Post#: 7952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Breeding Youngs w/ Parents Question
DIR By: cokoboi
Date: July 4, 2011, 2:23 am
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hi you guys. Thanks for the advice.
As for "color balancing", so you don't need to look for color
balancing when breeding hard colored birds, such as a red check
pair should produce a balanced bird? So, only for soft colored
birds, such as yellow with a rec red or soft color with hard
color?
As for the "inbreeding part", it was just a thought, because I
heard that you can achieve what you want in a inbreeding pair
faster than not inbreeding them at all. Well, I understand you
guys on the part that a parent to kids breeding might be too
close. So how about Parents to Nieces and Nephews?
Well, Jay, those are some of the things that I am still finding
the answer to. But, I know my purpose of raising rollers: I
love the adrenaline rush when you see your bird start falling
from the sky in a ball of feathers, somersaulting endlessly as
if it wasn't a bird at all, and then stopping in midair
effortlessly and without hesitation, goes back up and do it
again...That is my purpose...and also, I love to see young birds
finally coming into their rolls, knocking me by surprise,
they'll catch my attention and my eyes won't let them out of my
sight until I see it a second time. ;D
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