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#Post#: 8063--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: July 10, 2011, 11:41 pm
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--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
> Not apples to apples Tony .. unless they are supposed to be in
sync with each other .. get a few out of sync and they show like
a sore thumb. Good teams of quality birds are easy to judge ,
others are very difficult due to having to sort through the
garbage.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hey Scott, I agree, when a team is working together and kitting
well, it can be easier to see the one's breaking together and
doing it right. I am flying a mix of older and younger birds
together and man the "action" looks like crap at times, but then
they show flashes of brilliance when 8 or so all break
simultaneously. I can't wait until later this summer when the
younger ones will have matured a bit and they all start working
more as a team.
#Post#: 8068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: July 11, 2011, 9:43 am
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Scott I wish that was the case, but unforunately, they are NOT
scored by manyjudges. We just had a national judge who, when
questioned about why this type of performance was not being
scored, he replied that he was only scoring balled up spiners
where the wings were not visible. So, I ask, will it be used by
all judges/flyers in a like manor? Obviously not. If we have
little or no consistency, we do not have a UNIVERSAL
understanding. We may have to add a few more details to your
minimum D&Q standard just to get more people understanding it
just the way you do. Cliff
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
> Cliff .. I think the worst thing that we can do is over
complicate it .. the min standard that I just described will be
scored by any judge.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: July 11, 2011, 11:00 am
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Ciff , that isn't all I saw scored.. and if it was then everyone
would have had zero .. many times I think that judges tell what
they would like to see in what makes a great kit and then it is
taken that is all he will score.
That min. standard will be scored by any judge .. the fact is
they will be hungry to see it. Trust me
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Scott I wish that was the case, but unforunately, they are
NOT scored by manyjudges. We just had a national judge who, when
questioned about why this type of performance was not being
scored, he replied that he was only scoring balled up spiners
where the wings were not visible. So, I ask, will it be used by
all judges/flyers in a like manor? Obviously not. If we have
little or no consistency, we do not have a UNIVERSAL
understanding. We may have to add a few more details to your
minimum D&Q standard just to get more people understanding it
just the way you do. Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: July 11, 2011, 1:16 pm
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Scott,
Try explaining that to the recent 52 WC qualifiers from the
US....Wishful thinking will get us nowhere.
Again....reduce it to writing, in a clear concise easy to
understand way....a minimum D&Q standard, that you feel is
UNIVERSAL in its meaning. Explain the different wing positions
and faults, that must be taken into consideration and would be
easy to understand by a veteran judge, an rookie judge, a loose
judge, a tight judge, or a judge from another country. If you
feel it is not possible for you to do........then we are in
worse shape than I thought. Just give it a try, you may
surprise yourself with your thoughts.
Cliff
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
> Ciff , that isn't all I saw scored.. and if it was then
everyone would have had zero .. many times I think that judges
tell what they would like to see in what makes a great kit and
then it is taken that is all he will score.
> That min. standard will be scored by any judge .. the fact is
they will be hungry to see it. Trust me
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8074--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: July 11, 2011, 2:39 pm
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Cliff .. keep it simple or complicate it .. your choice .. just
threw a suggestion to you.
We are all a product of our envirement and will judge according
to the standards that we know.. for some there is no standard
and then it simply goes up from there.
Every year is a new fly and a new judge.
Scott
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Scott,
> Try explaining that to the recent 52 WC qualifiers from the
US....Wishful thinking will get us nowhere.
> Again....reduce it to writing, in a clear concise easy to
understand way....a minimum D&Q standard, that you feel is
UNIVERSAL in its meaning. Explain the different wing positions
and faults, that must be taken into consideration and would be
easy to understand by a veteran judge, an rookie judge, a loose
judge, a tight judge, or a judge from another country. If you
feel it is not possible for you to do........then we are in
worse shape than I thought. Just give it a try, you may
surprise yourself with your thoughts.
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8075--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: July 11, 2011, 4:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scott Yes...Every year a new fly and a new judge... with a
different standard, too. This is so far from a professional
sport that it looses its so-called integrity and becomes nothing
more than a mere guessing game.....because...we do not KNOW the
judge's standard. Until the WC and NBRC come up with one (a
standard) , we will never know the judge's standard until he is
standing in our yard.....and all the competitors start
complaining on the internet again.... I am pleased you are
happy with the status-quo because we can only go up from here.
Cliff
#Post#: 8076--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: July 11, 2011, 4:39 pm
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Cliff .. No I don't have any problems with the current system ..
I know what a good team is at that is what I strive for , and it
has served me well regardless of the judges standard.
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Scott Yes...Every year a new fly and a new judge... with a
different standard, too. This is so far from a professional
sport that it looses its so-called integrity and becomes nothing
more than a mere guessing game.....because... we do not KNOW the
judge's standard. Until the WC and NBRC come up with one (a
standard) , we will never know the judge's standard until he is
standing in our yard.....and all the competitors start
complaining on the internet again.... I am pleased you are
happy with the status-quo because we can only go up from here.
Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 8084--------------------------------------------------
Re: Establish Professional Judges
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: July 12, 2011, 11:22 am
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Scott Then you won't mind if those of us that would like to
see more consistancy in judging (so that scores aren't all over
the board)develope a more detailed explanation of a Breed
standard, minimum judging standard, etc. and keep working toward
a resolution? Thanks for your insight. Cliff
"Lead....follow...or get out of the way!"
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