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#Post#: 7689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: J_Star
Date: June 14, 2011, 8:59 am
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Yellow wheat...Ohio grown yellow wheat. If you are feeding hard
red wheat then it is different story. Not everyone can get hard
red wheat and very expensive. Have you tried to take the ACV and
the red cell out of their diet and just put them on straight
wheat for a while as your initial post suggested?
A wheat fed pegions are full of muscles and develop fast flying
habbits. That is just my take for what ever it is worth.
Jay Alnimer
#Post#: 7691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: Jay Knepp
Date: June 14, 2011, 9:41 am
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J_Star,
I just started using the Red Cell approx. a year ago...prior
to that I used Red Grit and probiotics....I have used ACV almost
as long as I have had pigeons..... I feed southern Indiana
grown wheat for everyday flying and have used red wheat the last
day or two before competition if I think it might improve the
performance. My normal summer feed rate is 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 cups
per 20 birds..... I see more consistency in my birds thru out
the kits in performance and fly time and fly height from feeding
straight wheat.
I do feed differently when the birds are in the moult and the
youngbirds get some added nutrition up to 4 months old.....
Jay
#Post#: 7692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: J_Star
Date: June 14, 2011, 9:53 am
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Very good that wheat is working out for you. The environment
dictates to us what to feed the birds. I know of several master
flyers who only feed 50/50 wheat/peas. By the way, Peas enhances
tremendously the quality and speed of the spin. Hard red wheat
does the same.
By the way, have you looked to see what percentage of protein
the wheat you are feeding have? I believe usually from 9 to 11%.
I also believe that Red Grit and probiotics work in opposite of
each other. Meaning, that red grit makes the probiotics useless.
That is why when you medicate, you keep the grit away. I know
the probiots add bacteria to the gut but check on it.
Jay A.
#Post#: 7718--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: Wilbot
Date: June 15, 2011, 11:44 am
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Hi Jon,
Also had this problem, and my advise to you is to identify the
birds that are pulling the kit up and those who come down late.
Eliminate them from the kit and only fly the ones that have a
good work rate (frequent & deep) and build on from there.
Birds will often follow the ones that are flying high and adapt
to this bad habit of pinning out.
I don't think your problem lies in the feed. In South Africa
where I stay we mostly feed wheat with a dash of peas.
#Post#: 7720--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: oldfart
Date: June 15, 2011, 7:11 pm
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J-Star, How have you been old friend? Well I hope! :) Which pea
are you feeding?
Take care
Thom
#Post#: 7721--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: Jon
Date: June 16, 2011, 12:06 am
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Well. My birds are all bred at my place except for two which are
no problem. The wheat I feed my birds is a light tan color, I
don't know if that is considered white or what. If I cut the
feed so they only fly 10-15 minutes I'm sure they will attack me
when I feed them. I'm getting the idea that maybe I should cut
the milo and go with wheat and peas. I guess white is better
than red. I get my feed from JEDDS and looking at their catalog
they have red wheat but I don't see white. They have peas,
austrian, canadian, maple, which one should I use. The milo is
white Kafir. They also have seven kinds of corn, green mukng
beans,Flax, hemp seed, white millet,oats, peanuts,rice,
sunflower seeds, safflower seeds. buckwheat. They also have some
other stuff. They of course have the regular pigeon mix, either
12% or 16% protein. I think the 16% has the larger corn that I
was told that rollers will not eat. They may have some feeds not
in their catalog. I also use ACV and garlic water but not on a
regular schedule. What is RED CELL. Jon
Jon
#Post#: 7722--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: Jay Knepp
Date: June 16, 2011, 6:31 am
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Jon,
Red wheat has more protein than white wheat,I have tried to
compare the two and my birds seem to fly some higher on red
wheat then what they do on white wheat and also seem to fly
about 20% longer on the average.......but this is just with my
birds, it may work different for you....I do not believe any one
grain will effect every family of birds alike. I prefer Austrian
winter peas simply because they are smaller than most other peas
and easier for the birds to eat..... there is a gentleman in our
region who will not feed peas because he has tried them three
times and has had three overflys...so no more peas for him.
Red Cell is a liquid mineral and vitamin supplement for
horses that many people use for pigeons.....I am not sure if
Jedds carries it but I know Foys has in the past.
Jay
#Post#: 7723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: J_Star
Date: June 16, 2011, 7:05 am
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The birds can be overdosed on Red Cell, so be careful with that
stuff. Austrian peas or Canadian peas are fine to use. You can
always cut down on the peas or add more as you see the flight
pattern of the birds that fit.
I have seen people feeding only wheat and they are successful at
it. But all add ACV and/or red cell or other stuff with their
water. The draw back with that is when they get too strong, you
cannot control them with feed and you have many variables to
contend with. I believe pigeons are hardy and they do well
without the crap and medication we add to their water. Thank
god, for as long I have my pigeons, never had any break out and
not even canker. I do not add anything to their water. I only
mix Amoxillian with the water for the breeders for 10 days
before the breeding season start and that is it.
Feeding Wheat/Milo for more than few weeks will affect the birds
in ways that don't please you. Watching your birds will tell you
what you need to do.
When the birds sky out, it doesn't happen all of a sudden...one
day at 300t and the next day at 1000ft. If you keep an eye an
watch your birds, you will see that every day they add more
footage up, from 300ft to 400ft then 600ft and then skying out.
Once you start noticing the the decent upward, adjust the feed.
Oldfart...Thanks. I 've been around peaking from time to time
but very busy at work and home. The birds and the website are
taking a back seat for right now. Although, I fly the birds
everyday possible, but I am not spending enough time with them.
Jay Alnimer
#Post#: 7725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: Jay Knepp
Date: June 16, 2011, 9:37 am
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What is the Max. dosage and what are the overdose symptoms of
Red Cell? I would need to go thru some of my nutritional info to
be sure but I seriously doubt that you can negatively affect the
birds by giving it twice a week or even 3 or 4 times a
week......I find that the birds won't want to drink the water if
I add more than 3/4 to 1 TBS per Gal.
I like to use ACV ( Bragg's Organic Unfiltered) to keep an
acidic environment in the digestive system to help ward off
harmful bacteria such as Coccidiosis,Salmonella and
Paratyphoid.....I like to use Red Cell and Probiotics to enhance
the birds immune system and thus seeing improved overall health
in the birds.
I really, really do not like to use medication in my
birds......about a year after getting pigeons I had a sickness
in my birds and was losing a few birds in the kitboxes so I
called one of the pigeon supply companies, they shipped me the
stuff they said I needed which I used as prescribed .....
starting at two weeks after treatment I lost more birds than I
had before I treated. I finally contacted a local poultry
consultant and when I told him what I used and how I treated the
birds he like to came out of his chair.....He said, it is a
wonder that you have any birds left at all...that treatment
destoyed your bird's immune system and opened it up to every
disease that is out there.....So we worked on getting them built
back up and since then I have stayed away from medication and
have focused on natural preventitives....I am not saying I will
never use Meds but I won't go for the Med cabinet unless it is
something very, very serious. Jay
#Post#: 7744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Flying Kit birds
DIR By: Jon
Date: June 18, 2011, 1:25 pm
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Well I may have found out what part of my problem is. I turned
my birds loose a little late today and after about 1/2 hour I
saw a crow chasing what I though was one of my birds. A little
closer look and I realized that the crow was chasing a BOP. I
think it was a cooper but not sure. Then I saw the BOP chasing
my birds, not diving on them but trying to catch them. I know
one of my birds out flew him but I still have two birds out. One
old and one young. Time will tell. Seems like I have to fly the
birds before 6am to avoid the BOP.
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