DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Roller Pigeons
HTML https://rollerpigeon.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Flying and Breeding Ruby Rollers
*****************************************************
#Post#: 7695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 14, 2011, 10:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
No doubt about it, Jay, a comprehensive approach that would
include trainng and certifying judges, along with a written
performance standard to tighten up the loopholes, would go a
long way toward resolving these issues. BOTH flyers and judges
MUST start judging using the same exact minimal standard. One
without the other will not solve this confusion. It will always
be up to the judges descretion if that standard was met but we
still should all be on the same page. Nothing will ever be
"perfect", but it will get us more consistancy in scoring
rollers accross the board in our competitions.
Cliff
--- Quote from: Jay Knepp link ---
>
> Cliff,
> I admire your efforts to get everybody on the same page
....... my question is will a written standard get us to that
point without first getting the judges on the same page
concerning what quality is such as being able to distinguish
when a bird wing switches or does not finish the spin correctly,
how deep 20 feet is, what a 1.5 quality bird looks like, etc.,
etc.... In the past I did not feel that judging clinics were the
the way to go but I have changed my view on this recently and
now feel that we could have regional judging clinics and
possibly get our judges closer to the same page... Jay
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 14, 2011, 10:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I wish it was that simple, Scott. The problem is...that's the
way we have tried to do it...and it has gotten us where we are
today.....there are just not enough judges like that around. I
think that most of the time, judges are selected out of
desperation.....and regional judges tend to be among
friends....and want to keep it that way! LOL! But I am not so
concerned about regional judges. The regional flys are where new
judges cut their teeth. Here they learn how to follow and judge
by a standard. A training ground , if you please. As I said,
some of these regions just get whomever they can, however they
can, whenever they can. The finals judge is my big concern.
Cliff
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
> Jay, The best way to handle the judging is choosing a judge
that you know will score them with a standard. In other words be
selective. The fact is though some regions choose judges that
make's everyone feel good
> by scoreing very liberal.
>
>
>
>
>
> [quote author=Jay Knepp link=topic=587.msg7690#msg7690
date=1308060563]
> Cliff,
> I admire your efforts to get everybody on the same page
....... my question is will a written standard get us to that
point without first getting the judges on the same page
concerning what quality is such as being able to distinguish
when a bird wing switches or does not finish the spin correctly,
how deep 20 feet is, what a 1.5 quality bird looks like, etc.,
etc.... In the past I did not feel that judging clinics were the
the way to go but I have changed my view on this recently and
now feel that we could have regional judging clinics and
possibly get our judges closer to the same page... Jay
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
#Post#: 7698--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 14, 2011, 11:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Scott
Bear with me....one more time.... I'm still not clear....Did
you or did you not VOTE, when the NBRC had to adopt their own
Fly Rules? If you voted, did you vote in favor of the Fly Rules
that were approved by the NBRC EC? If you voted in favor, you
voted to accept the changes to the Fly Rules both 20 and 11. To
be honest, though, I really don't understand your fuss over the
rules of a competition fly that you do not participate in (the
NBRC 11-bird Championship). But every time we mention the need
for a standard, you bring up this "dummeid down 11-bird rules"
issue as a reason not to move forward. Do you think you will
get every one to agree with every point? If so we have no place
to go with this.
First we write a minimal scoring standard.
Second we note what is below the standard. List the wing
positions, good better and best and sub standard.
Third we list the faults that can cause a bird to not meet the
minimum standard.
The way the NBRC tried recently to change the standard was
flawed from the start. NO ONE was clear on the "V" wing style.
Had they just listed the "X" style, it may have had a better
showing. It was a good idea that was poorly drafted, so it
failed. But that's no reason not to continue to move forward.
They were on the right track. I give them credit for trying. We
can learn from their mistakes.
Again I applaud your open-mindedness.
Cliff
#Post#: 7704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 14, 2011, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No Cliff I did not vote on it .. nor was I on the commitee at
that time.
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Scott
>
> Bear with me....one more time.... I'm still not clear....Did
you or did you not VOTE, when the NBRC had to adopt their own
Fly Rules? If you voted, did you vote in favor of the Fly Rules
that were approved by the NBRC EC? If you voted in favor, you
voted to accept the changes to the Fly Rules both 20 and 11. To
be honest, though, I really don't understand your fuss over the
rules of a competition fly that you do not participate in (the
NBRC 11-bird Championship). But every time we mention the need
for a standard, you bring up this "dummeid down 11-bird rules"
issue as a reason not to move forward. Do you think you will
get every one to agree with every point? If so we have no place
to go with this.
>
> First we write a minimal scoring standard.
>
> Second we note what is below the standard. List the wing
positions, good better and best and sub standard.
>
> Third we list the faults that can cause a bird to not meet the
minimum standard.
>
> The way the NBRC tried recently to change the standard was
flawed from the start. NO ONE was clear on the "V" wing style.
Had they just listed the "X" style, it may have had a better
showing. It was a good idea that was poorly drafted, so it
failed. But that's no reason not to continue to move forward.
They were on the right track. I give them credit for trying. We
can learn from their mistakes.
>
> Again I applaud your open-mindedness.
>
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 14, 2011, 8:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I realize you were not on the NBRC EC. But the NBRC members had
to vote on FLY rules because the WC changed theirs and the NBRC
did not feel the club wanted to go in that direction. SO the
NBRC EC submitted a set of fly rules to the flyers for a vote,
both 20 and 11. So you didn't vote? So if you didn't vote why do
you want to bitch about anything to do with the fly rules?
It was a yes or no vote and if you didn't like it, why didn't
you vote NO?
Cliff
#Post#: 7709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 14, 2011, 8:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff .. it was fact I threw out there .. Not that it is your
business but I procrastinated and missed the deadline .. any
more qustions ?
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
>
> I realize you were not on the NBRC EC. But the NBRC members
had to vote on FLY rules because the WC changed theirs and the
NBRC did not feel the club wanted to go in that direction. SO
the NBRC EC submitted a set of fly rules to the flyers for a
vote, both 20 and 11. So you didn't vote? So if you didn't vote
why do you want to bitch about anything to do with the fly
rules?
> It was a yes or no vote and if you didn't like it, why didn't
you vote NO?
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 15, 2011, 9:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Scott
Just one. If you and I are going to all this trouble, to work on
a judging standard, do you think you can make time to vote on it
? As a National Roller Club our members are very lax when it
comes to voting. Everybody wants to bitch about everything,
committees are formed, work is done, ballots are printed, and
then few take the time to cast their vote. I hope, I can count
on you in the future to do more than argue about issues that we
will encounter. Thanks!
Cliff
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
>
> Cliff .. it was fact I threw out there .. Not that it is your
business but I procrastinated and missed the deadline .. any
more qustions ?
>
>
>
> [quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=587.msg7708#msg7708
date=1308100596]
>
> I realize you were not on the NBRC EC. But the NBRC members
had to vote on FLY rules because the WC changed theirs and the
NBRC did not feel the club wanted to go in that direction. SO
the NBRC EC submitted a set of fly rules to the flyers for a
vote, both 20 and 11. So you didn't vote? So if you didn't vote
why do you want to bitch about anything to do with the fly
rules?
> It was a yes or no vote and if you didn't like it, why didn't
you vote NO?
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
#Post#: 7715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 15, 2011, 9:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff ... ah never mind
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Scott
> Just one. If you and I are going to all this trouble, to work
on a judging standard, do you think you can make time to vote on
it ? As a National Roller Club our members are very lax when it
comes to voting. Everybody wants to bitch about everything,
committees are formed, work is done, ballots are printed, and
then few take the time to cast their vote. I hope, I can count
on you in the future to do more than argue about issues that we
will encounter. Thanks!
> Cliff
>
>
> [quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=587.msg7709#msg7709
date=1308103040]
>
> Cliff .. it was fact I threw out there .. Not that it is your
business but I procrastinated and missed the deadline .. any
more qustions ?
>
>
>
> [quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=587.msg7708#msg7708
date=1308100596]
>
> I realize you were not on the NBRC EC. But the NBRC members
had to vote on FLY rules because the WC changed theirs and the
NBRC did not feel the club wanted to go in that direction. SO
the NBRC EC submitted a set of fly rules to the flyers for a
vote, both 20 and 11. So you didn't vote? So if you didn't vote
why do you want to bitch about anything to do with the fly
rules?
> It was a yes or no vote and if you didn't like it, why didn't
you vote NO?
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 7727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Ty Coleman
Date: June 16, 2011, 7:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Scott
>
> Bear with me....one more time.... I'm still not clear....Did
you or did you not VOTE, when the NBRC had to adopt their own
Fly Rules? If you voted, did you vote in favor of the Fly Rules
that were approved by the NBRC EC? If you voted in favor, you
voted to accept the changes to the Fly Rules both 20 and 11. To
be honest, though, I really don't understand your fuss over the
rules of a competition fly that you do not participate in (the
NBRC 11-bird Championship). But every time we mention the need
for a standard, you bring up this "dummeid down 11-bird rules"
issue as a reason not to move forward. Do you think you will
get every one to agree with every point? If so we have no place
to go with this.
>
> First we write a minimal scoring standard.
>
> Second we note what is below the standard. List the wing
positions, good better and best and sub standard.
>
> Third we list the faults that can cause a bird to not meet the
minimum standard.
>
> The way the NBRC tried recently to change the standard was
flawed from the start. NO ONE was clear on the "V" wing style.
Had they just listed the "X" style, it may have had a better
showing. It was a good idea that was poorly drafted, so it
failed. But that's no reason not to continue to move forward.
They were on the right track. I give them credit for trying. We
can learn from their mistakes.
>
> Again I applaud your open-mindedness.
>
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
No doubt about the V causing it to fail, If a X had of been
used I'm almost certain it would have passed.
#Post#: 7736--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 17, 2011, 1:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree that the V was not the best way to put forth .
Scott
*****************************************************
Page 6 of 8
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page