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#Post#: 7632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 11, 2011, 2:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The only thing that sould be scored are those that meet the
standard of the breed .. there is no lesser standard .. honestly
a couple of decent pigeons doesn't impress me.
What does impress me is a solid team of quality birds hammering
hard rolling breaks .. this is what seperates the men from the
boys .. It's easy to peck greatness and some grand standard
above comp flyers on these forums, putting them up is another
thing.
Jon you pretty well nailed it , without being as competitive as
I was for many years I would not know these birds or the breed
as I know it . Couldn't have done it any other way. It has also
put me under kits of nearly every top flyer in the US and
Canada.
It was same shooting competitive archery , competition took me
to a level that couldn't have been matched any other way.
Scott
--- Quote from: Tony Chavarria link ---
>
> [quote author=Steve49 link=topic=587.msg7619#msg7619
date=1307754856]
> Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
>
--- End Quote ---
Steve, you are talking about competition rules, not the commonly
accepted standard for aerial performance that identifies a True
Birmingham Roller: "Inconceivable rapidity through a
considerable distance".
[/quote]
#Post#: 7633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 11, 2011, 2:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff, the difference now is it would much easier to bounce back
in .. my stock is solid. Only because of the drive of where
competition took me. But the longer my heads out of the game the
harder that will be as times goes on. I'm realist.
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
>
> Scott
> You said: I'm not as competitive as I was.. and it shows big
time."
> So why? You don't want to compete, you have lost that interest
in flying? Your birds are crap? Or you don't have the time to
put into the birds? No one raises good kits every year? There is
some luck involved in this game.
> Usually, a good kit is just a reflection of a good handler....
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 11, 2011, 2:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
What it takes Joe is the whole package. I havn't seen tumblers
scored except by loose judges. I garantee you when you see a
score over 500 points very marginal birds were also scored
except for the rarest cases.
You will also hear this same thing come up with the new Fall fly
judge .. This guy won't fool around , that I can assure you. And
trust me if it doesn't represent the breed he will not score it.
--- Quote from: joeb link ---
>
> [quote author=Ty Coleman link=topic=587.msg7630#msg7630
date=1307806208]
> [quote author=Tony Chavarria link=topic=587.msg7627#msg7627
date=1307765280]
> [quote author=Steve49 link=topic=587.msg7619#msg7619
date=1307754856]
> Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
>
--- End Quote ---
Steve, you are talking about competition rules, not the commonly
accepted standard for aerial performance that identifies a True
Birmingham Roller: "Inconceivable rapidity through a
considerable distance".
[/quote]
Tony, I'm glad to see you still have respect for the ONLY
breed standard we have and have not fallen victim to the comp
standard like Steve and so many others have done. I thought I
was the only one left that hadn't.
[/quote]
Ty there are a few of us around that won't knuckle under to the
old english flying tumbler rules. This thing has gotten away
from us, when the breaks are more important than the quality and
depth of the kit we have digressed in my view.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
[/quote]
#Post#: 7635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Steve49
Date: June 11, 2011, 2:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
JoeB, Tony and Ty, where do i say i don't want velocity or
depth? i'm just saying i want my birds to break together, not
individually. isn't the 11 bird for the individual performer? i
think we should realize that a 20 bird kit is designed for
larger breaks, and there's no reason you can't have your cake
and eat it too.
--- Quote from: joeb link ---
>
> [quote author=Ty Coleman link=topic=587.msg7630#msg7630
date=1307806208]
> [quote author=Tony Chavarria link=topic=587.msg7627#msg7627
date=1307765280]
> [quote author=Steve49 link=topic=587.msg7619#msg7619
date=1307754856]
> Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
>
--- End Quote ---
Steve, you are talking about competition rules, not the commonly
accepted standard for aerial performance that identifies a True
Birmingham Roller: "Inconceivable rapidity through a
considerable distance".
[/quote]
Tony, I'm glad to see you still have respect for the ONLY
breed standard we have and have not fallen victim to the comp
standard like Steve and so many others have done. I thought I
was the only one left that hadn't.
[/quote]
Ty there are a few of us around that won't knuckle under to the
old english flying tumbler rules. This thing has gotten away
from us, when the breaks are more important than the quality and
depth of the kit we have digressed in my view.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
[/quote]
#Post#: 7636--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: samir
Date: June 11, 2011, 5:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I beleive that the Birmingham roller is developed by competition
for competition and as such is the best breed in the world. In
the world of backyard flying you wil find other aspects to look
for, where BR will fall midiocer.
Initial quote in this tred can be aplied to 10 % of stars in
flying BR around the world, who sucseed with diferent birds and
circumctances. They posses high EQ (Emotional Inteligence) that
made them to chalenge their own work every step of the way and
in a way compete ws. themself. Posesion of formal education or
deep theeoretical knowledge is of secondary importance.
An example of this would be 2006 WC champion Ferid Catak (a
friend) who is mentor to a large group of flyers wich will
eventualy produce another champion. Ferid works so hard on
promotion of this breed and sport and he is already a legend.
I read his book, fool of practical methods, not much of biology
lecture.
Most people will never compete, some will newre even try. But
only those who try will have a shot to stardom.
I've withnesed discusions on competition vs backyard flying.
One thing seem to be owerlooked; a competitor can always release
his kit in the backyard for fun. A backyard kit can't get into
competition just like that without making funy.
Competition at the other hand can be scaled to suit diferent
levels and provide chalenge to everyone to acomplish something
for their stage.
Samir
#Post#: 7637--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: joeb
Date: June 11, 2011, 7:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
> What it takes Joe is the whole package. I havn't seen tumblers
scored except by loose judges. I garantee you when you see a
score over 500 points very marginal birds were also scored
except for the rarest cases.
> You will also hear this same thing come up with the new Fall
fly judge .. This guy won't fool around , that I can assure you.
And trust me if it doesn't represent the breed he will not score
it.
>
>
>
> [quote author=joeb link=topic=587.msg7631#msg7631
date=1307809262]
>
> [quote author=Ty Coleman link=topic=587.msg7630#msg7630
date=1307806208]
> [quote author=Tony Chavarria link=topic=587.msg7627#msg7627
date=1307765280]
> [quote author=Steve49 link=topic=587.msg7619#msg7619
date=1307754856]
> Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
>
--- End Quote ---
Steve, you are talking about competition rules, not the commonly
accepted standard for aerial performance that identifies a True
Birmingham Roller: "Inconceivable rapidity through a
considerable distance".
[/quote]
Tony, I'm glad to see you still have respect for the ONLY
breed standard we have and have not fallen victim to the comp
standard like Steve and so many others have done. I thought I
was the only one left that hadn't.
[/quote]
Ty there are a few of us around that won't knuckle under to the
old english flying tumbler rules. This thing has gotten away
from us, when the breaks are more important than the quality and
depth of the kit we have digressed in my view.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
[/quote]
[/quote]
Okay Scott, I'll bite, who is the Fall Fly judge.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
#Post#: 7638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 11, 2011, 9:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
joeb
Last I heard , depth and quality define a TRUE BIRMINGHAM
ROLLER...... And the number of birds that perform together is
NOT even mentioned.
Perhaps the 11 bird fly is staying MORE true to the
standard...... :0)
Cliff
#Post#: 7639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 11, 2011, 9:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scott
As I look at the scores from 20-30 years ago, they started out
LOW, then got way too high, and now it seems the pendulum may be
swinging back to the low side again. It could be a combination
of reasons; tinkering with the rules, ideas on judging changing,
more BOP, what have you.....Simple evolution of the sport , the
ebb and flow of changing ideas.
High scores or low scores, the contests are to designed to
evaluate the flyers and their birds, who wins, and whether the
kits getting better or worse, and whether we are making
progress. Makes little difference to me if the winning score is
150 or 950 or 2000, it is just a number. It represents a judges
overall opinion and evaluation of the performance, he observed.
We all know it is an extremely SUBJECTIVE estimation and we
accept it as such. The judge who socres kits low are of no
greater value than the ones who score them high.
We all look forward to the judge coming to score the birds, be
he tight , loose, or just right. Besides, ther's not a whole lot
we can do about it as long as the rules require the judge to
score kits according to his own standard.
Cliff
#Post#: 7640--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 11, 2011, 10:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff .. I have not seen this to be the case at all .
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
>
> joeb
> Last I heard , depth and quality define a TRUE BIRMINGHAM
ROLLER...... And the number of birds that perform together is
NOT even mentioned.
> Perhaps the 11 bird fly is staying MORE true to the
standard...... :0)
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7641--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: June 11, 2011, 10:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff .. that standard starts at low or nonexistant to on up ..
those that score everything cheat the good teams on every break
that they give.
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
>
> Scott
> As I look at the scores from 20-30 years ago, they started out
LOW, then got way too high, and now it seems the pendulum may be
swinging back to the low side again. It could be a combination
of reasons; tinkering with the rules, ideas on judging changing,
more BOP, what have you.....Simple evolution of the sport , the
ebb and flow of changing ideas.
> High scores or low scores, the contests are to designed to
evaluate the flyers and their birds, who wins, and whether the
kits getting better or worse, and whether we are making
progress. Makes little difference to me if the winning score is
150 or 950 or 2000, it is just a number. It represents a judges
overall opinion and evaluation of the performance, he observed.
We all know it is an extremely SUBJECTIVE estimation and we
accept it as such. The judge who socres kits low are of no
greater value than the ones who score them high.
> We all look forward to the judge coming to score the birds, be
he tight , loose, or just right. Besides, ther's not a whole lot
we can do about it as long as the rules require the judge to
score kits according to his own standard.
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
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