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#Post#: 7613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: 2y4life
Date: June 10, 2011, 3:49 pm
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I don't think you have to compete to have good birds [B]BUT[/B]
I do believe that in order to have good birds without competing,
you have to have visited many lofts, seen many birds fly, and
previously participated in a roller fly or two.
#Post#: 7614--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: wishiwon2
Date: June 10, 2011, 4:04 pm
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The one thing that flying competition can do for you that only
back-yard flying doesnt; it makes you prepare for a particular
day and time to have your kit at its peak, or at least try to.
This specific preparation gives a chance to learn details about
the birds/kits nature that most likely would otherwise go
unnoticed. It makes you accountable, and gives you opportunity
to learn how to manage your kits faster and more reliably.
Flying for yourself, its true you can set your own deadlines,
but if you dont make it, so ...? Competing doesnt guarantee that
a person will learn or improve, just that there is greater
opportunity for it to happen and at an accelerated rate.
Im not arguing that it CANT be done Tony, but I will stand by
that in the vast majority of cases, it WONT. No matter if its
flying pigeons or any other activity where the application of
time, attention and effort effect the outcome, competition is a
superior motivator.
--- Quote from: Tony Chavarria link ---
> BTW, I am not against competition at all, I support it. I just
maintain that you don't have to be a comp flyer to have and fly
good Birmingham Roller stock, but you do have to be willing to
learn and know what good stock is and how to cultivate the best
traits. This requires a high level of self-discipline over time
and most people can't do it. :'(
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with this Tony, "that most people cant do it",
especially alone. Thats partially why I advocate participating
in competition for most ppl, to give them that extra push to
improve.
I have no problem with someone who choses NOT to compete. Just
dont come around telling the rest of us that your birds are all
that without being willing to prove it.
On another note;
IF the only reason you went to a guys house was to see a great
kit, perhaps you let him and yourself down with what you
potentially could have accomplished with that visit ...
#Post#: 7617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: June 10, 2011, 6:27 pm
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--- Quote from: wishiwon2 link ---
>
> The one thing that flying competition can do for you that only
back-yard flying doesnt; it makes you prepare for a particular
day and time to have your kit at its peak, or at least try to.
This specific preparation gives a chance to learn details about
the birds/kits nature that most likely would otherwise go
unnoticed. It makes you accountable, and gives you opportunity
to learn how to manage your kits faster and more reliably.
Flying for yourself, its true you can set your own deadlines,
but if you dont make it, so ...? Competing doesnt guarantee that
a person will learn or improve, just that there is greater
opportunity for it to happen and at an accelerated rate.
>
--- End Quote ---
In essence, what you are saying is that one is preparing his
birds in a manner that best conforms to a specific set of fly
rules in order to score the most points. For example, a high
quality performance from a true Birmingham Roller that does not
roll simultaneously with at least 4 others will be meaningless
to a comp judge but may very well been the type of bird that
Pensom might have considered a champion!
I will just mention the business management saying that "what
gets measured gets done". Question is, what is being measured
and by whom?
--- Quote from: wishiwon2 link ---
>
> Im not arguing that it CANT be done Tony, but I will stand by
that in the vast majority of cases, it WONT. No matter if its
flying pigeons or any other activity where the application of
time, attention and effort effect the outcome, competition is a
superior motivator.
>
--- End Quote ---
I would agree that the desire to win can be an intense
motivator, but it can also be the desire to be first at
something, an original or to be unique or live out a set of
personal values of just being the best you can be, these can all
serve as motivators as well. I think it depends on the person
and what gets the juices flowing - what motivates one to want to
be better today than yesterday? It is a very personal thing, can
most people give you the reason why they want to win?
--- Quote from: Tony Chavarria link ---
> BTW, I am not against competition at all, I support it. I just
maintain that you don't have to be a comp flyer to have and fly
good Birmingham Roller stock, but you do have to be willing to
learn and know what good stock is and how to cultivate the best
traits. This requires a high level of self-discipline over time
and most people can't do it. :'(
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: wishiwon2 link ---
>
> I agree with this Tony, "that most people cant do it",
especially alone. Thats partially why I advocate participating
in competition for most ppl, to give them that extra push to
improve.
>
--- End Quote ---
If that's what floats their boat, I am cool with it.
--- Quote from: Tony Chavarria link ---
>
> I have no problem with someone who choses NOT to compete. Just
dont come around telling the rest of us that your birds are all
that without being willing to prove it.
--- End Quote ---
I hear you. There are those I have heard before who brag way
beyond any justification. In my case I don't brag, I deal in the
real "market", it talks about my stock, it is where real dollars
are spent. This proves it for me and the record I have for my
customers who come back and buy more than once or twice, some
who come back and buy repeatedly is 63% last I checked. That is
a winning number by far.
--- Quote from: wishiwon2 link ---
>
> On another note; IF the only reason you went to a guys house
was to see a great kit, perhaps you let him and yourself down
with what you potentially could have accomplished with that
visit ...
>
--- End Quote ---
Again, I hear you. But usually, there is not much time to
provide feedback to a guy unless you get to drive with him onto
the next loft. Now, let me get you one on one and I will talk
your ear off, just ask some of my customers! LOL
#Post#: 7619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Steve49
Date: June 10, 2011, 8:14 pm
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Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
#Post#: 7624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 10, 2011, 10:54 pm
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Scott
I stand corrected and ask the same question Tony asked... So
suddenly all your birds have gone to pot and now you going to
look for another family? Somehow , I doubt that.
Cliff
#Post#: 7625--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 10, 2011, 10:56 pm
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Scott
You said: "I'm not as competitive as I was.. and it shows big
time."
So why? You don't want to compete, you have lost that interest
in flying? Your birds are crap? Or you don't have the time to
put into the birds? No one raises good kits every year? There is
some luck involved in this game.
Usually, a good kit is just a reflection of a good handler....
Cliff
#Post#: 7626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: June 10, 2011, 10:57 pm
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Tony
I hear you loud and clear, my friend.
Cliff
#Post#: 7627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: June 10, 2011, 11:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Steve49 link ---
>
> Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
>
--- End Quote ---
Steve, you are talking about competition rules, not the commonly
accepted standard for aerial performance that identifies a True
Birmingham Roller: "Inconceivable rapidity through a
considerable distance".
#Post#: 7630--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: Ty Coleman
Date: June 11, 2011, 10:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Tony Chavarria link ---
>
> [quote author=Steve49 link=topic=587.msg7619#msg7619
date=1307754856]
> Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
>
--- End Quote ---
Steve, you are talking about competition rules, not the commonly
accepted standard for aerial performance that identifies a True
Birmingham Roller: "Inconceivable rapidity through a
considerable distance".
[/quote]
Tony, I'm glad to see you still have respect for the ONLY
breed standard we have and have not fallen victim to the comp
standard like Steve and so many others have done. I thought I
was the only one left that hadn't.
#Post#: 7631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Considering Competition: Another View
DIR By: joeb
Date: June 11, 2011, 11:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ty Coleman link ---
>
> [quote author=Tony Chavarria link=topic=587.msg7627#msg7627
date=1307765280]
> [quote author=Steve49 link=topic=587.msg7619#msg7619
date=1307754856]
> Tony, i think its time to forget what Pensom wanted, regarding
individual performance, as today's flyers are wanting big breaks
at the same time, not waterfalling. the sport evolves, and so do
the flyers and their birds.
>
--- End Quote ---
Steve, you are talking about competition rules, not the commonly
accepted standard for aerial performance that identifies a True
Birmingham Roller: "Inconceivable rapidity through a
considerable distance".
[/quote]
Tony, I'm glad to see you still have respect for the ONLY
breed standard we have and have not fallen victim to the comp
standard like Steve and so many others have done. I thought I
was the only one left that hadn't.
[/quote]
Ty there are a few of us around that won't knuckle under to the
old english flying tumbler rules. This thing has gotten away
from us, when the breaks are more important than the quality and
depth of the kit we have digressed in my view.
Keep em spinning
Joe B
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