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#Post#: 8492--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 8, 2011, 2:27 pm
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You make some excellent points, Paul. The time is right...the
time is now.....
Cliff
[quote author=Paul Conway link=topic=579.msg8482#msg8482
date=1312774613]
Cliff , for nearly 15 years I've watched those that actualy
judge by a standard that don't count tumblers,
wingswitches,short rolling and all get slammed by the masses .
While those that count near everything that wiggles get a pat on
the back.
We'll why do you think this is. When you have judges scoring
almost everything it undermines those that score tight. Your
statement is an arguement for fleshing out the standard,
training judges to judge to the standard and changing the rules
to read "judge to the NBRC/ WC/Whatever organization is best
inserted here standard and not the judges own personal
standard. One of you folks who wants no changes in the rules
for judging stated in a post ( I went back and read some to
learn from and nothing more) that your standard for good birds
might be a 1.2, so and so's might be a 1.1 and others upwards of
a 1.4. . This range, stated with acceptance, is not ok and
exactly what leads to the moaning and groaning. The moaning and
groaning will never stop entirely, but with fleshed out rules
for scoring folks that do moan and groan, won't gain much
traction when they do so. In addition, the judging should bunch
up and those scoring either way too tight or way too loose will
stick out like a sore thumb. You can't have someone's birds
score well with one judge, advance to the next level of
competiition, fly the same and score poorly. Who is the flyer
gonna moan about- the tight judge of course, not so much because
he scores tight, but because some of his fellow judges score
loose. flyers are gonna moan. Some of you folks are very hard
on your birds, others birds, other flyers and have done so here
on the forum, even speaking to them directly about the quality
of thier birds. Now you know thier birds better than I do so
whether that's correct or not I do not know, but what I do know
is I watch the same couple folks hold absolutely everything
about competition flying to a very high standard, except the
rules under which they are judged. Paul Conway
[/quote]
#Post#: 8493--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 8, 2011, 2:29 pm
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donny,
But how can we come up with a test when every judge's answer is
correct because it is HIS standard? Until we all get on the same
page under one standard, we cannnot train and certify judges....
Cliff
[quote author=donnie james link=topic=579.msg8486#msg8486
date=1312823960]
the more i think about this we should quite talking about it and
break down and come up with a test to see how they judge and if
they don't get 85% or better on the score they don't pass i'm
sure that someone will come up with a test ...................
.........donny james
[/quote]
#Post#: 8499--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: donnie james Date: August 8, 2011, 9:22 pm
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hay cliff,
if their a will theirs a way but in the pass flies i seen scores
a 1,000 plus and the when the same guy gets his birds judge
again he he gets less then a 100 points that's should tell you
theirs 2 different judges that's tells me 1 is a looser judge
then the other and if the judges was on the same page the score
would be the same right?that's why we need a stander for a
judge(s)so the score would be in the same ball park i hope this
make since ...............donnie james
#Post#: 8500--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: tom wingfield Date: August 8, 2011, 10:22 pm
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it.s not the judging that is going to bring the end to the world
cup it is the poor sportsmenship...
#Post#: 8501--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: samir Date: August 9, 2011, 8:16 am
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I found wery interesting to read WC judges coments. "Loose
kits, birds out of kit, flying to high-to far to judge,
trees............"
These are big and abvious things, at the higest competition
level.
Samir
#Post#: 8504--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: tom wingfield Date: August 9, 2011, 9:44 am
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no one in the world scored a half turn...??
#Post#: 8505--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Paul Conway Date: August 9, 2011, 10:02 am
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don't envy the WC folks at all- different countries, different
continents for that matter, the questions are always gonna be
there. From coordination, communication, logistics, etc, etc,
etc, what an undertaking. Seems silly to me to have a world
class judge looking up in the sky at world class birds, visiting
the loft of some of the best established and rising fanciers in
our sport with the same and some of us other run of the mill
fliers looking on, judging birds to a standard that seems like
it would be culled if held to the standards the fliers, thier
birds, and thier performance are held to. The most tranquil
and beautiful pond in the world will breed mosguito's if
conditions are right. Sportsmanship on all levels in all
sports is a growing issue in all areas of competition. Our
local little leagues no longer have stands between the first and
third base lines. New fields are made with the stands down the
outfield lines and behind the outfield because of oppossing
parent and parent/umpire conflicts. There's lots of reasons
for unsportsmanlike conduct that cannot be changed and highlight
the worst in all of us as human beings, but to throw aside all
those who dissent as unsportsmanlike in light of how the judging
standards read for competition is holding the fliers to a higher
standard than you are the judging standards, which seem to get
a free pass in my opinion. respectfully, Paul Conway.
#Post#: 8506--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 9, 2011, 10:26 am
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You are a very wise man, Paul.
Cliff
[quote author=Paul Conway link=topic=579.msg8505#msg8505
date=1312902164]
don't envy the WC folks at all- different countries, different
continents for that matter, the questions are always gonna be
there. From coordination, communication, logistics, etc, etc,
etc, what an undertaking. Seems silly to me to have a world
class judge looking up in the sky at world class birds, visiting
the loft of some of the best established and rising fanciers in
our sport with the same and some of us other run of the mill
fliers looking on, judging birds to a standard that seems like
it would be culled if held to the standards the fliers, thier
birds, and thier performance are held to. The most tranquil
and beautiful pond in the world will breed mosguito's if
conditions are right. Sportsmanship on all levels in all
sports is a growing issue in all areas of competition. Our
local little leagues no longer have stands between the first and
third base lines. New fields are made with the stands down the
outfield lines and behind the outfield because of oppossing
parent and parent/umpire conflicts. There's lots of reasons
for unsportsmanlike conduct that cannot be changed and highlight
the worst in all of us as human beings, but to throw aside all
those who dissent as unsportsmanlike in light of how the judging
standards read for competition is holding the fliers to a higher
standard than you are the judging standards, which seem to get
a free pass in my opinion. respectfully, Paul Conway.
[/quote]
#Post#: 8507--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 9, 2011, 11:08 am
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[font=Bookman Old Style]
wingpatchloft
I believe if the WC EC refuses to address a few
misunderstandings , it could show to a major loss of
sportsmanship and lead directly to fewer flyers. If the game is
rigged , who wants to play? We must all agree to play by the
same rules or it is not fair to all. If that fact is not clear,
it could be soon enough.
Cliff[/font]
[quote author=wingpatchloft link=topic=579.msg8504#msg8504
date=1312901070]
no one in the world scored a half turn...??
[/quote]
#Post#: 8512--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: tom wingfield Date: August 9, 2011, 5:11 pm
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mr. ball that is right, and as far as the judging goes , no
matter how a judge scores or sees things it has to stay the same
from country to country, everone and anyone no matter what
strain or family they fly....i havent flown in yrs. and the way
it looks will not, for some of the same reasons yrs. ago in the
international , if i have to be in some kind of click , it aint
for this old boy....as to my last post the way i see it no one
that flew this year acording to the judge should be getten the
big head..... 8 birds breaking at the same time
woooooooopy........ ............".world cup the best of the
best"
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