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#Post#: 8468--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: August 7, 2011, 12:15 pm
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I didn't to Jay , I already know that decent kits are very very
hard to come by while out judging . They are hard to come by in
my own backyard also. It is the rare year that I have a truely
good team.
Normaly those that do the most crying flew nothing to even give
thought to. This is a constant fact that has always baffled me.
[quote author=Jay Knepp link=topic=579.msg8466#msg8466
date=1312736836]
Scott, did you stand under a kit with eric while he was judging?
[/quote]
#Post#: 8469--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 7, 2011, 2:27 pm
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It is what it is, Scott and most people recognize it.
We[font=Bookman Old Style] have been seeing posts that question
the validity of "the judge using "HIS" standard" way before this
WC 2011.[/font][font=Bookman Old Style][/size]
This problem does not revolve around tight judge / loose judge.
It has to do with the lack of a written minimum quality standard
that every judge/flyer can use to base their judgements on.
It is NOT OK when tumblers ( less than 10 foot in depth) are
scored!
It is NOT OK when birds are scored that do not break together
in 5 or more.
Instead of having controversy, why not try to make the rules
set the standard? It should go a long way to improve these tacky
situations?
As far as "Judges that don't compete allowed to judge", The WC
approved the judge from a list of volunteers? Correct? My Gosh!
Did I just hear a rather high pitched snivel?
Being a TOP FLYER is not always translate into being, a
qualified judge, just as being a MASTER FLYER, does not always
translate into a man we should hold in high esteem.
Cliff[/font]
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=579.msg8465#msg8465
date=1312732333]
Yea lets stomp our feet and change the rules because a one of
the top flyers in the world was very strict while judging.
Funny it seems ok when tumblers and birds that don't break
together are scored . And It's ok to have those that don't even
compete judge. But by golly lets not repect this guy, he's too
tough and hurts our pride.
I'm tired of the constant whining and snilving like a bunch of
little girls.
[/quote]
#Post#: 8472--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: August 7, 2011, 4:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff , for nearly 15 years I've watched those that actualy
judge by a standard that don't count tumblers,
wingswitches,short rolling and all get slammed by the masses .
While those that count near everything that wiggles get a pat on
the back.
This years Fall fly judge is also going to get slammed as he
judges judges by a standard . I suggest that you put some care
into finding your regionial judge.
Honestly though I don't see the WC going much longer . With the
unsportmanship coming out of this country and the blantant
cheating coming from another on how they place their qualifiers
finaly coming to light. I don't put much faith in it's survival.
Nice gig on the Master Flyer view, know this though. Unless you
step it up in the finals it will take you forever and a day to
get there if at all. Master flyer is like good judges , you
don't have to be liked by the masses. in fact you normaly won't
be. I will take a top flyer as a judge anyday over one that has
never been able to do anything in competition.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=579.msg8469#msg8469
date=1312745275]
It is what it is, Scott and most people recognize it.
We[font=bookman old style] have been seeing posts that question
the validity of "the judge using "HIS" standard" way before this
WC 2011.[/font][font=bookman old style]
This problem does not revolve around tight judge / loose judge.
It has to do with the lack of a written minimum quality standard
that every judge/flyer can use to base their judgements on.
It is NOT OK when tumblers ( less than 10 foot in depth) are
scored!
It is NOT OK when birds are scored that do not break together
in 5 or more.
Instead of having controversy, why not try to make the rules
set the standard? It should go a long way to improve these tacky
situations?
As far as "Judges that don't compete allowed to judge", The WC
approved the judge from a list of volunteers? Correct? My Gosh!
Did I just hear a rather high pitched snivel?
Being a TOP FLYER is not always translate into being, a
qualified judge, just as being a MASTER FLYER, does not always
translate into a man we should hold in high esteem.
Cliff[/font]
[/quote]
#Post#: 8474--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: donnie james Date: August 7, 2011, 5:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
hay scott,
i have to agree with you on the world cup its going fall apart
like you said and i believe that their to much b.s. going in the
world cup i give a couple more years and its going to fall on
its face big time and that's it no more world cup and the judges
are some else like you said take a top flier to judge the w.c.
it might last a little while longer ............donnie james
p.s. i hope i made since
#Post#: 8475--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 7, 2011, 5:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=Bookman Old Style]
Scott
You know what they say about if the shoe fits? But I do agree
with you about the WC being in jeopardy.... for severalother
reasons, and those you just mentioned. Actually, Ive been saying
it for a couple years. I'm surprised it has lasted as long as it
has. Remember? You used to deny it categorcially! LOL!
I know lots of Master flyers who do get the respect they
deserve and all are good pigeon managers and most are really
good guys.... and then there are one or two will just never get
it. Basically this hobby is a fun sport for guys who like to
watch quality Rollers.
But hey, nothing but good guys here. Right?
Cliff[/font]
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=579.msg8472#msg8472
date=1312750824]
Cliff , for nearly 15 years I've watched those that actualy
judge by a standard that don't count tumblers,
wingswitches,short rolling and all get slammed by the masses .
While those that count near everything that wiggles get a pat on
the back.
This years Fall fly judge is also going to get slammed as he
judges judges by a standard . I suggest that you put some care
into finding your regionial judge.
Honestly though I don't see the WC going much longer . With the
unsportmanship coming out of this country and the blantant
cheating coming from another on how they place their qualifiers
finaly coming to light. I don't put much faith in it's survival.
Nice gig on the Master Flyer view, know this though. Unless you
step it up in the finals it will take you forever and a day to
get there if at all. Master flyer is like good judges , you
don't have to be liked by the masses. in fact you normaly won't
be. I will take a top flyer as a judge anyday over one that has
never been able to do anything in competition.
[/quote]
#Post#: 8477--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 7, 2011, 5:42 pm
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[font=Bookman Old Style]
PS
Thanks for the competition encouragement. But It takes what it
takes and if you are flying in a very competitive region (like
me) regional wins and getting to the finals are not easy tasks.
I didn't join the NBRC to be a Master flyer. I joined to learn
how to fly Rollers and enjoy the company of men who do the same.
Just between me and you, I think I would rather be friends with
the masses and earn their respect, than win some contest. To win
a major fly would just be icing on the cake.
If we take the NBRC HOF, not many were winners of contests but
many were well respected for their honesty and wisdom about
Rollers. Almost each of them was known for their ability to help
out, when asked and their distinct air of humility.
For me personally, It would be a far greater honor to be found
among the HOF members than anything else. For without those men,
we might not have had the Master flyer program.
Cliff
[/font]
#Post#: 8480--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: August 7, 2011, 7:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It isn't their wisdom of rollers that got them there Cliff .. it
was by going above and beyond for the sport.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=579.msg8477#msg8477
date=1312756925]
[font=bookman old style]
PS
Thanks for the competition encouragement. But It takes what it
takes and if you are flying in a very competitive region (like
me) regional wins and getting to the finals are not easy tasks.
I didn't join the NBRC to be a Master flyer. I joined to learn
how to fly Rollers and enjoy the company of men who do the same.
Just between me and you, I think I would rather be friends with
the masses and earn their respect, than win some contest. To win
a major fly would just be icing on the cake.
If we take the NBRC HOF, not many were winners of contests but
many were well respected for their honesty and wisdom about
Rollers. Almost each of them was known for their ability to help
out, when asked and their distinct air of humility.
For me personally, It would be a far greater honor to be found
among the HOF members than anything else. For without those men,
we might not have had the Master flyer program.
Cliff
[/font]
[/quote]
#Post#: 8481--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Cliff Ball Date: August 7, 2011, 9:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sure....that, too!
Cliff
(my record-setting shortest post ever! LOL!)
#Post#: 8482--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: Paul Conway Date: August 7, 2011, 10:36 pm
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Cliff , for nearly 15 years I've watched those that actualy
judge by a standard that don't count tumblers,
wingswitches,short rolling and all get slammed by the masses .
While those that count near everything that wiggles get a pat on
the back.
We'll why do you think this is. When you have judges scoring
almost everything it undermines those that score tight. Your
statement is an arguement for fleshing out the standard,
training judges to judge to the standard and changing the rules
to read "judge to the NBRC/ WC/Whatever organization is best
inserted here standard and not the judges own personal
standard. One of you folks who wants no changes in the rules
for judging stated in a post ( I went back and read some to
learn from and nothing more) that your standard for good birds
might be a 1.2, so and so's might be a 1.1 and others upwards of
a 1.4. . This range, stated with acceptance, is not ok and
exactly what leads to the moaning and groaning. The moaning and
groaning will never stop entirely, but with fleshed out rules
for scoring folks that do moan and groan, won't gain much
traction when they do so. In addition, the judging should bunch
up and those scoring either way too tight or way too loose will
stick out like a sore thumb. You can't have someone's birds
score well with one judge, advance to the next level of
competiition, fly the same and score poorly. Who is the flyer
gonna moan about- the tight judge of course, not so much because
he scores tight, but because some of his fellow judges score
loose. flyers are gonna moan. Some of you folks are very hard
on your birds, others birds, other flyers and have done so here
on the forum, even speaking to them directly about the quality
of thier birds. Now you know thier birds better than I do so
whether that's correct or not I do not know, but what I do know
is I watch the same couple folks hold absolutely everything
about competition flying to a very high standard, except the
rules under which they are judged. Paul Conway
#Post#: 8486--------------------------------------------------
Re: World Cup Southeast Region Finals
By: donnie james Date: August 8, 2011, 12:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
the more i think about this we should quite talking about it and
break down and come up with a test to see how they judge and if
they don't get 85% or better on the score they don't pass i'm
sure that someone will come up with a test
............................donny james
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