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#Post#: 7408--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: May 26, 2011, 4:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Actualy Cliff none of my birds came directly from Kenny .. No we
don't compare notes on pairs as they are pretty far removed from
each other and he doesn't know my pairs nor I his.. we will talk
about feed and bouce off each other where the teams might be
condition wise coming up to a major fly... There are no
shortcuts finding your key birds , my best were stumbled on by
accident.
I did try one hen he gave me 10 years or so ago that didn't pan
out. I run a tight ship over here and anything different just
takes up breeder and perch space that I need .. I don't like a
lot of birds and numbers just confuse things... Lets get
something straight, when I'm talking about color bird crosses I
talking about all crossbreds regardless of who bred them.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7405#msg7405
date=1306440938]
Hehehehe. You're so full of it, Scott. Sorry, my friend. I just
don't believe you when you say that in your first couple of
years after getting birds from KGB that you didn't try any other
birds from him, or didn't compare notes on performance and
production of certain pairs. It has nothing to do with pumping
your ego. It's called cultivating friendship and comraderie in
the sport.....finding our how certain pairings and certain
sub-lines are producing.
And this line of yours, "we rarely talk about families as there
are far more important things to discuss where these birds are
concerned.This game is far more about individule effort and
stock sence than particular families".....is this the real Scott
Campbell? We have all heard you post specifically and
consistantly about the stability and problems you believe are
inherent in specific families that you have little experience
with, such as the Turners. I don't ever believe I have heard you
reference the fact that it may be individual birds at fault. You
always fault the family!
And I am definitely filing this statement away of yours for
posterity..."This game is far more about individule effort and
stock sence than particular families. Like I have said before,
it isn't about the family it is about finding the right few key
birds to build a program around where you don't have to rely on
the numbers game to try and be competitive".....though I agree
whole-heartedly! LOL!
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7402#msg7402
date=1306438220]
No Cliff we never swap birds as there is no reason to .. Nor do
I track my birds in others hands as I don't need to pump my ego
.. Kenny and I have two seperate programs and directions where
the birds is concerned.
In fact the same holds true with all those that I stay in
contact with , we rarely talk about families as there are far
more important things to discuss where these birds are
concerned.
This game is far more about individule effort and stock sence
than particular families. Like I have said before, it isn't
about the family it is about finding the right few key birds to
build a program around where you don't have to rely on the
numbers game to try and be competitive.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7401#msg7401
date=1306437405]
Scott
I care because we fly the same family of birds....because we
swap birds..... and because, I know he has a few birds from
other families and I want to know which birds are excelling. If
you give birds to a flyer whom you were monitoring, wouldn't you
care if your birds did well? Kinda like Tony wanting to see his
Ruby influenced Fullerton birds do well. I bet KGB was very
pleased when you did very well with his birds, and I bet he
monitored how you did with them. I suspect you traded a few back
and forth and compared notes. That's all it is. It is beyond my
understanding why you would care! LOL! I do agree that many
have good birds, and often times, it is the better managed birds
that win.
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7390#msg7390
date=1306429390]
Cliff it is beyond my understanding on why you would care what
he flew. Around here we could care less what is flown , it is
much more about the flyer.
As for you and your fly, with what seems to be a solid judge
looking for real breaks vrs activity. I would be careful a
youngbird team that is still in development and a knack for
quick triggers, not that a youngbird team can't be good. But
they can certainly be inconsistant as a real working team as a
team depending on the day.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7389#msg7389
date=1306428483]
It's lunch time here, Scott...but Good Morning to you. I spoke
with Jay to be sure what birds he flew, and it was a kit of
yearling (2010) Turners that qualified for him. Interesting
note: it was a kit of yearlings that won it for me also over my
old-bird team. So now it's a tough call as to whether to stay
with the young birds (were they just lucky?) or whether to go
with the old-birds, even though they had a bad day. I am
training both kits and will decide, depending on how they hold
up under the preparation for the finals.
Cliff
PS I didn't mention any names in my post...but if the shoe
fits...for goodness sakes, wear it! LOL!
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 7417--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: May 26, 2011, 8:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Of coarse particular charactorsics follow some birds depending
on how tightly they are bred. Cliff as you yourself know those
birds have stability issues which is why most cross them. Did
you find a stable side without crossing ?
On my end my birds like to fly high and are a pain to manage
properly , there are also a host of other minor faults I have to
deal with. I'm realistic and honest about my birds faults.
(We have all heard you post specifically and consistantly about
the stability and problems you believe are inherent in specific
families that you have little experience with, such as the
Turners)
#Post#: 7418--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: Cliff Ball Date: May 26, 2011, 8:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=bookman old style]
Scott
OK, so you and KGB just share in similar birds from a common
background. That's fine.
And who said anything about shortcuts? I've been minimg this
vein of gold for six years now! Let me set your mind at ease.
Don't worry about it. You are such a hoot.
Cliff[/font]
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7408#msg7408
date=1306444900]
Actualy Cliff none of my birds came directly from Kenny .. No we
don't compare notes on pairs as they are pretty far removed from
each other and he doesn't know my pairs nor I his.. we will talk
about feed and bouce off each other where the teams might be
condition wise coming up to a major fly... There are no
shortcuts finding your key birds , my best were stumbled on by
accident.
I did try one hen he gave me 10 years or so ago that didn't pan
out. I run a tight ship over here and anything different just
takes up breeder and perch space that I need .. I don't like a
lot of birds and numbers just confuse things... Lets get
something straight, when I'm talking about color bird crosses I
talking about all crossbreds regardless of who bred them.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7405#msg7405
date=1306440938]
Hehehehe. You're so full of it, Scott. Sorry, my friend. I just
don't believe you when you say that in your first couple of
years after getting birds from KGB that you didn't try any other
birds from him, or didn't compare notes on performance and
production of certain pairs. It has nothing to do with pumping
your ego. It's called cultivating friendship and comraderie in
the sport.....finding our how certain pairings and certain
sub-lines are producing.
And this line of yours, "we rarely talk about families as there
are far more important things to discuss where these birds are
concerned.This game is far more about individule effort and
stock sence than particular families".....is this the real Scott
Campbell? We have all heard you post specifically and
consistantly about the stability and problems you believe are
inherent in specific families that you have little experience
with, such as the Turners. I don't ever believe I have heard you
reference the fact that it may be individual birds at fault. You
always fault the family!
And I am definitely filing this statement away of yours for
posterity..."This game is far more about individule effort and
stock sence than particular families. Like I have said before,
it isn't about the family it is about finding the right few key
birds to build a program around where you don't have to rely on
the numbers game to try and be competitive".....though I agree
whole-heartedly! LOL!
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7402#msg7402
date=1306438220]
No Cliff we never swap birds as there is no reason to .. Nor do
I track my birds in others hands as I don't need to pump my ego
.. Kenny and I have two seperate programs and directions where
the birds is concerned.
In fact the same holds true with all those that I stay in
contact with , we rarely talk about families as there are far
more important things to discuss where these birds are
concerned.
This game is far more about individule effort and stock sence
than particular families. Like I have said before, it isn't
about the family it is about finding the right few key birds to
build a program around where you don't have to rely on the
numbers game to try and be competitive.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7401#msg7401
date=1306437405]
Scott
I care because we fly the same family of birds....because we
swap birds..... and because, I know he has a few birds from
other families and I want to know which birds are excelling. If
you give birds to a flyer whom you were monitoring, wouldn't you
care if your birds did well? Kinda like Tony wanting to see his
Ruby influenced Fullerton birds do well. I bet KGB was very
pleased when you did very well with his birds, and I bet he
monitored how you did with them. I suspect you traded a few back
and forth and compared notes. That's all it is. It is beyond my
understanding why you would care! LOL! I do agree that many
have good birds, and often times, it is the better managed birds
that win.
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7390#msg7390
date=1306429390]
Cliff it is beyond my understanding on why you would care what
he flew. Around here we could care less what is flown , it is
much more about the flyer.
As for you and your fly, with what seems to be a solid judge
looking for real breaks vrs activity. I would be careful a
youngbird team that is still in development and a knack for
quick triggers, not that a youngbird team can't be good. But
they can certainly be inconsistant as a real working team as a
team depending on the day.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7389#msg7389
date=1306428483]
It's lunch time here, Scott...but Good Morning to you. I spoke
with Jay to be sure what birds he flew, and it was a kit of
yearling (2010) Turners that qualified for him. Interesting
note: it was a kit of yearlings that won it for me also over my
old-bird team. So now it's a tough call as to whether to stay
with the young birds (were they just lucky?) or whether to go
with the old-birds, even though they had a bad day. I am
training both kits and will decide, depending on how they hold
up under the preparation for the finals.
Cliff
PS I didn't mention any names in my post...but if the shoe
fits...for goodness sakes, wear it! LOL!
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 7419--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: May 26, 2011, 9:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It is more than that Cliff .. my birds came down from a family
that he developed.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7418#msg7418
date=1306461425]
[font=bookman old style]
Scott
OK, so you and KGB just share in similar birds from a common
background. That's fine.
And who said anything about shortcuts? I've been minimg this
vein of gold for six years now! Let me set your mind at ease.
Don't worry about it. You are such a hoot.
Cliff[/font]
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7408#msg7408
date=1306444900]
Actualy Cliff none of my birds came directly from Kenny .. No we
don't compare notes on pairs as they are pretty far removed from
each other and he doesn't know my pairs nor I his.. we will talk
about feed and bouce off each other where the teams might be
condition wise coming up to a major fly... There are no
shortcuts finding your key birds , my best were stumbled on by
accident.
I did try one hen he gave me 10 years or so ago that didn't pan
out. I run a tight ship over here and anything different just
takes up breeder and perch space that I need .. I don't like a
lot of birds and numbers just confuse things... Lets get
something straight, when I'm talking about color bird crosses I
talking about all crossbreds regardless of who bred them.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7405#msg7405
date=1306440938]
Hehehehe. You're so full of it, Scott. Sorry, my friend. I just
don't believe you when you say that in your first couple of
years after getting birds from KGB that you didn't try any other
birds from him, or didn't compare notes on performance and
production of certain pairs. It has nothing to do with pumping
your ego. It's called cultivating friendship and comraderie in
the sport.....finding our how certain pairings and certain
sub-lines are producing.
And this line of yours, "we rarely talk about families as there
are far more important things to discuss where these birds are
concerned.This game is far more about individule effort and
stock sence than particular families".....is this the real Scott
Campbell? We have all heard you post specifically and
consistantly about the stability and problems you believe are
inherent in specific families that you have little experience
with, such as the Turners. I don't ever believe I have heard you
reference the fact that it may be individual birds at fault. You
always fault the family!
And I am definitely filing this statement away of yours for
posterity..."This game is far more about individule effort and
stock sence than particular families. Like I have said before,
it isn't about the family it is about finding the right few key
birds to build a program around where you don't have to rely on
the numbers game to try and be competitive".....though I agree
whole-heartedly! LOL!
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7402#msg7402
date=1306438220]
No Cliff we never swap birds as there is no reason to .. Nor do
I track my birds in others hands as I don't need to pump my ego
.. Kenny and I have two seperate programs and directions where
the birds is concerned.
In fact the same holds true with all those that I stay in
contact with , we rarely talk about families as there are far
more important things to discuss where these birds are
concerned.
This game is far more about individule effort and stock sence
than particular families. Like I have said before, it isn't
about the family it is about finding the right few key birds to
build a program around where you don't have to rely on the
numbers game to try and be competitive.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7401#msg7401
date=1306437405]
Scott
I care because we fly the same family of birds....because we
swap birds..... and because, I know he has a few birds from
other families and I want to know which birds are excelling. If
you give birds to a flyer whom you were monitoring, wouldn't you
care if your birds did well? Kinda like Tony wanting to see his
Ruby influenced Fullerton birds do well. I bet KGB was very
pleased when you did very well with his birds, and I bet he
monitored how you did with them. I suspect you traded a few back
and forth and compared notes. That's all it is. It is beyond my
understanding why you would care! LOL! I do agree that many
have good birds, and often times, it is the better managed birds
that win.
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7390#msg7390
date=1306429390]
Cliff it is beyond my understanding on why you would care what
he flew. Around here we could care less what is flown , it is
much more about the flyer.
As for you and your fly, with what seems to be a solid judge
looking for real breaks vrs activity. I would be careful a
youngbird team that is still in development and a knack for
quick triggers, not that a youngbird team can't be good. But
they can certainly be inconsistant as a real working team as a
team depending on the day.
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7389#msg7389
date=1306428483]
It's lunch time here, Scott...but Good Morning to you. I spoke
with Jay to be sure what birds he flew, and it was a kit of
yearling (2010) Turners that qualified for him. Interesting
note: it was a kit of yearlings that won it for me also over my
old-bird team. So now it's a tough call as to whether to stay
with the young birds (were they just lucky?) or whether to go
with the old-birds, even though they had a bad day. I am
training both kits and will decide, depending on how they hold
up under the preparation for the finals.
Cliff
PS I didn't mention any names in my post...but if the shoe
fits...for goodness sakes, wear it! LOL!
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 7420--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: Cliff Ball Date: May 26, 2011, 9:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No, you still have it all wrong Scotty. These birds DO NOT have
significant stability issues, anymore than your family has
issues with being stiff. And most guys I know are NOT crossing
the Turners, and the ones that do, do so because they are in
search of creating a more perfect family of rollers, most, like
Joe Bob, regretting that they did so instead of selecting from
within the family for birds that possess the characteristics
they were looking for. I DO NOT cross my family of rollers and I
have been on a program of culling out any lines that I obtained
from anyone else that did so, following the lead of guys that
have worked with the family for 20-30 years. The straight
Turners have everything within the family that is needed, just
as most families of rollers do, including your own. It's a
matter of selecting the right individual pigeons and breeding
them tight.
I suppose I could ask you the same questiion. You yourself know
that Pensoms tend to be extremely stiff, which is why most guys
have been crossing them for decades....to get some roll in them.
I guess it's like in Randy Gibson's case in crossing the Turners
with your base line of birds, Joe Kiser's Pensom family. Did he
do so to put stablity in the Turners or to put more roll in the
Kisers? I guess the answer depends on one's perspective and
agenda.
When it comes right down to it, I don't really care what you
think of my family of rollers, Scott. I only care when you try
to spread false rumors and your deluded fantasies about them.
You are just one guy's opinion. GOT IT BIG BOY? But you and I
participate in, and enjoy the same hobby, so I know that we
both love the performance found in this breed of pigeons. So
we're stuck with each other, my friend....the ying and yang of
the roller world.
I'm just enjoying seeing more and more guys successful in
competition at the Regional, National and International level
with the Turner family of Birmingham Rollers.
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7417#msg7417
date=1306458106]
Of coarse particular charactorsics follow some birds depending
on how tightly they are bred. Cliff as you yourself know those
birds have stability issues which is why most cross them. Did
you find a stable side without crossing ?
On my end my birds like to fly high and are a pain to manage
properly , there are also a host of other minor faults I have to
deal with. I'm realistic and honest about my birds faults.
(We have all heard you post specifically and consistantly about
the stability and problems you believe are inherent in specific
families that you have little experience with, such as the
Turners)
[/quote]
#Post#: 7421--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: May 26, 2011, 10:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good luck in the finals Cliff !
[quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=562.msg7420#msg7420
date=1306462604]
No, you still have it all wrong Scotty. These birds DO NOT have
significant stability issues, anymore than your family has
issues with being stiff. And most guys I know are NOT crossing
the Turners, and the ones that do, do so because they are in
search of creating a more perfect family of rollers, most, like
Joe Bob, regretting that they did so instead of selecting from
within the family for birds that possess the characteristics
they were looking for. I DO NOT cross my family of rollers and I
have been on a program of culling out any lines that I obtained
from anyone else that did so, following the lead of guys that
have worked with the family for 20-30 years. The straight
Turners have everything within the family that is needed, just
as most families of rollers do, including your own. It's a
matter of selecting the right individual pigeons and breeding
them tight.
I suppose I could ask you the same questiion. You yourself know
that Pensoms tend to be extremely stiff, which is why most guys
have been crossing them for decades....to get some roll in them.
I guess it's like in Randy Gibson's case in crossing the Turners
with your base line of birds, Joe Kiser's Pensom family. Did he
do so to put stablity in the Turners or to put more roll in the
Kisers? I guess the answer depends on one's perspective and
agenda.
When it comes right down to it, I don't really care what you
think of my family of rollers, Scott. I only care when you try
to spread false rumors and your deluded fantasies about them.
You are just one guy's opinion. GOT IT BIG BOY? But you and I
participate in, and enjoy the same hobby, so I know that we
both love the performance found in this breed of pigeons. So
we're stuck with each other, my friend....the ying and yang of
the roller world.
I'm just enjoying seeing more and more guys successful in
competition at the Regional, National and International level
with the Turner family of Birmingham Rollers.
Cliff
[quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=562.msg7417#msg7417
date=1306458106]
Of coarse particular charactorsics follow some birds depending
on how tightly they are bred. Cliff as you yourself know those
birds have stability issues which is why most cross them. Did
you find a stable side without crossing ?
On my end my birds like to fly high and are a pain to manage
properly , there are also a host of other minor faults I have to
deal with. I'm realistic and honest about my birds faults.
(We have all heard you post specifically and consistantly about
the stability and problems you believe are inherent in specific
families that you have little experience with, such as the
Turners)
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 7451--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: Cliff Ball Date: May 28, 2011, 9:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Scott. We both know that there is a certain amount of
luck involved, too.
Cliff
#Post#: 7476--------------------------------------------------
Re: North Central World Cup Regionals
By: Johnnie Williams Date: May 30, 2011, 9:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Next Saturday is going to be GREAT DAY Cliff's Birds are going
to Preform at there BEST I'm sure-- and WEST TEXAS ROLLER CLUB
is having Picnic-auction and raffle in Hobbs New Mexico-- at
building across street from 3611 W. Alabama. Lunch is $12.00
Raffle tickets I think are 3for $5.00 if going call Brian
Goodwin Cell # 1-575-631-5716 to order lunch need to to that by
Wed. meal is catered-- SURE GRATE TIME WILL BE HAD BY ALL!!!
GOD Bless!!!
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