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#Post#: 7158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: May 14, 2011, 7:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff.. I know what it's like to fly in a competitive region ..
keep in mind this region used to take in all of N. Calif. Our
state fly took in all of those that qualified for the NBRC and
WC , yea a little competitive to say the least. It makes you
step up your game no doubt.
Maybe I'm a little Calased because I honestly don't know how
many times I've qualified for the WC or the NBRC .. all that
matters for me is the finals for the record and I am honestly
not that impressed at all where regionial flys are concerned.
The finals is where the rubber truely meets the road as far as
where I am concerned and that is where the real competition is.
There is two things that I never do , one is boast about my fly
record , and the other is you never see me talking up my birds.
The fact is I don't need too, they stand on thier own merit.
But one thing is for sure,,these birds can make it look like
amature day on any given day regardless of who you are.
With all of this said I am more just playing with the pigeons as
a backyard flyer at this point due to work . So yes my teams
will suffer at least for now. Good luck in the finals !
Scott
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Good morning to you too, Scott
> You don't place much stock in regional fly wins, do you? I
have some real competition flyers in my region and I think the
qualifiers in my region, have to try just a little harder to
earn that spot in the finals. Maybe you would understand better
if you were flying in this region. I think Ty understands my
point. If you don't understand , don't worry about it, it's just
my opinion anyway.
>
> I think it was Joe A who started making regional comparisons.
I'm just helping him compare apples to apples.
>
> Cliff
>
> PS. I haven't had to elevate myself much since I hit 6'9". Big
Grin
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7164--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: Ty Coleman
Date: May 15, 2011, 10:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My take on it is it is like our U.S politics, the few control
the mass and is doing a piss poor job of it all because it is
the way it has always been done. We need to think for ourself
and voice it a bit louder. ;)
#Post#: 7167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: May 16, 2011, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Scott That fine! Glad we understand each other. I was right
that you are not impressed with regional contests. And we will
leave it at that. But remember, those regional wins accumulated
those points toward you Master Flyer award! So they do count for
something. Thanks for the good luck, I will need it. I will
always be an amateur, 365 days a year. I like to boast of the
fly records of the flyers in my region, but I am pleased with
whatever luck I have with my birds. I too, am a back yard flyer
most of the time, and proud of it. On the rare occasions a judge
stops by , I try to put up a kit or two for his evaluation and
see if his standard is close to mine. I don't think anyone
would begrudge a master flyer talking about his birds, good or
bad. Who knows your strain better than you? Cliff
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
> Cliff.. I know what it's like to fly in a competitive region
.. keep in mind this region used to take in all of N. Calif.
Our state fly took in all of those that qualified for the NBRC
and WC , yea a little competitive to say the least. It makes
you step up your game no doubt.
> Maybe I'm a little Calased because I honestly don't know how
many times I've qualified for the WC or the NBRC .. all that
matters for me is the finals for the record and I am honestly
not that impressed at all where regionial flys are concerned.
The finals is where the rubber truely meets the road as far as
where I am concerned and that is where the real competition is.
> There is two things that I never do , one is boast about my
fly record , and the other is you never see me talking up my
birds. The fact is I don't need too, they stand on thier own
merit. But one thing is for sure,,these birds can make it look
like amature day on any given day regardless of who you are.
> With all of this said I am more just playing with the pigeons
as a backyard flyer at this point due to work . So yes my teams
will suffer at least for now. Good luck in the finals !
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=536.msg7113#msg7113
date=1305307010]
> Good morning to you too, Scott
> You don't place much stock in regional fly wins, do you? I
have some real competition flyers in my region and I think the
qualifiers in my region, have to try just a little harder to
earn that spot in the finals. Maybe you would understand better
if you were flying in this region. I think Ty understands my
point. If you don't understand , don't worry about it, it's just
my opinion anyway.
>
> I think it was Joe A who started making regional comparisons.
I'm just helping him compare apples to apples.
>
> Cliff
>
> PS. I haven't had to elevate myself much since I hit 6'9". Big
Grin
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
#Post#: 7168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: wannaroll
Date: May 16, 2011, 10:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Is it my imagination or did Scott and Cliff almost agree on
something?.....LOL
One of the problems with the regional fly's is that the RD's
usually use their buddies as judges. I feel it's very hard to
get a fair shake. Even if the judge is a fair one, they will
still favor their freinds in the multiplier dept. because they
have seen their birds fly multiple times over the years and know
what they have. I'm not saying they do this on purpose, but
maybe sub consiously. ???
#Post#: 7169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: 2y4life
Date: May 16, 2011, 10:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
While I have been on here less than a year, I've seen Cliff and
Scott agree on quite a few things actually...it just doesn't
happen and probably will never happen when it comes to "colored"
birds.
I have not competed so I can't really comment too much on what
Wannaroll wrote but I would think that having a friend as a
judge would be a little biased. Even unconsciously, there may be
some bias there.
With that said though, most of the rollermen seem to know each
other so is it possible to have a judge that is not a friend to
ANYONE in the region at all? Also, I would think that a judge
would try to judge as fairly as possible because s/he is not
only judging birds but is also being judged by all the flyers
attending the fly.
I wonder, has there been any serious controversy over the way a
judge has judged in the past? Meaning has there even been an
uproar because a judged gave a flyer a very high score when
others attending the fly universally felt that another flyer had
better birds and a better fly? (I doubt this question will be
answered due to the subsequent controversy bound to follow)
#Post#: 7170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: May 16, 2011, 10:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Cliff, just counting on regionals for master flyer would take
forever . At least once the 11 bird fly loophole fly was closed
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> Scott That fine! Glad we understand each other. I was right
that you are not impressed with regional contests. And we will
leave it at that. But remember, those regional wins accumulated
those points toward you Master Flyer award! So they do count for
something. Thanks for the good luck, I will need it. I will
always be an amateur, 365 days a year. I like to boast of the
fly records of the flyers in my region, but I am pleased with
whatever luck I have with my birds. I too, am a back yard flyer
most of the time, and proud of it. On the rare occasions a judge
stops by , I try to put up a kit or two for his evaluation and
see if his standard is close to mine. I don't think anyone
would begrudge a master flyer talking about his birds, good or
bad. Who knows your strain better than you? Cliff
>
>
> [quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=536.msg7158#msg7158
date=1305418923]
> Cliff.. I know what it's like to fly in a competitive region
.. keep in mind this region used to take in all of N. Calif.
Our state fly took in all of those that qualified for the NBRC
and WC , yea a little competitive to say the least. It makes
you step up your game no doubt.
> Maybe I'm a little Calased because I honestly don't know how
many times I've qualified for the WC or the NBRC .. all that
matters for me is the finals for the record and I am honestly
not that impressed at all where regionial flys are concerned.
The finals is where the rubber truely meets the road as far as
where I am concerned and that is where the real competition is.
> There is two things that I never do , one is boast about my
fly record , and the other is you never see me talking up my
birds. The fact is I don't need too, they stand on thier own
merit. But one thing is for sure,,these birds can make it look
like amature day on any given day regardless of who you are.
> With all of this said I am more just playing with the pigeons
as a backyard flyer at this point due to work . So yes my teams
will suffer at least for now. Good luck in the finals !
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=536.msg7113#msg7113
date=1305307010]
> Good morning to you too, Scott
> You don't place much stock in regional fly wins, do you? I
have some real competition flyers in my region and I think the
qualifiers in my region, have to try just a little harder to
earn that spot in the finals. Maybe you would understand better
if you were flying in this region. I think Ty understands my
point. If you don't understand , don't worry about it, it's just
my opinion anyway.
>
> I think it was Joe A who started making regional comparisons.
I'm just helping him compare apples to apples.
>
> Cliff
>
> PS. I haven't had to elevate myself much since I hit 6'9". Big
Grin
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 7171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: May 16, 2011, 10:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Tou , any judge that can't just lock onto the team at hand
without outside interference shouldn't be judging. When I am
judging there is only me and the team and nothing else
--- Quote from: 2y4life link ---
>
> While I have been on here less than a year, I've seen Cliff
and Scott agree on quite a few things actually...it just doesn't
happen and probably will never happen when it comes to "colored"
birds.
>
> I have not competed so I can't really comment too much on what
Wannaroll wrote but I would think that having a friend as a
judge would be a little biased. Even unconsciously, there may be
some bias there.
>
> With that said though, most of the rollermen seem to know each
other so is it possible to have a judge that is not a friend to
ANYONE in the region at all? Also, I would think that a judge
would try to judge as fairly as possible because s/he is not
only judging birds but is also being judged by all the flyers
attending the fly.
>
> I wonder, has there been any serious controversy over the way
a judge has judged in the past? Meaning has there even been an
uproar because a judged gave a flyer a very high score when
others attending the fly universally felt that another flyer had
better birds and a better fly? (I doubt this question will be
answered due to the subsequent controversy bound to follow)
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: May 16, 2011, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Actualy Dave this can work both ways where the judge can be
tougher on his buddys to not give the favortism. Honestly out of
all the regionial flys that I have been a part of there was only
one time that I suspected a bias, and it evolved around someone
flying his birds
--- Quote from: Wannaroll link ---
>
> Is it my imagination or did Scott and Cliff almost agree on
something?.....LOL
>
> One of the problems with the regional fly's is that the RD's
usually use their buddies as judges. I feel it's very hard to
get a fair shake. Even if the judge is a fair one, they will
still favor their freinds in the multiplier dept. because they
have seen their birds fly multiple times over the years and know
what they have. I'm not saying they do this on purpose, but
maybe sub consiously. ???
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: wannaroll
Date: May 16, 2011, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
>
> Actualy Dave this can work both ways where the judge can be
tougher on his buddys to not give the favortism. Honestly out of
all the regionial flys that I have been a part of there was only
one time that I suspected a bias, and it evolved around someone
flying his birds
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [quote author=Wannaroll link=topic=536.msg7168#msg7168
date=1305558542]
> Is it my imagination or did Scott and Cliff almost agree on
something?.....LOL
>
> One of the problems with the regional fly's is that the RD's
usually use their buddies as judges. I feel it's very hard to
get a fair shake. Even if the judge is a fair one, they will
still favor their freinds in the multiplier dept. because they
have seen their birds fly multiple times over the years and know
what they have. I'm not saying they do this on purpose, but
maybe sub consiously. ???
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Your right Scott, it can also work against you. It's a two way
street. Freinds can be brutal judging sometimes.
#Post#: 7177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the way of the roller hobby ?
DIR By: Cliff Ball
Date: May 16, 2011, 1:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scott Yes, you are correct. The Regional wins just get you to
the finals. Depending on how well you do in the finals, is where
you make the most MF points. The whole Master flyer concept was
not thought out well and has under gone enough changes to where
it is a pretty good program, now. Have you ever looked to see
where you would be in the Master Flyer Program without the
points from regional wins? Cliff
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
>
> Cliff, just counting on regionals for master flyer would take
forever . At least once the 11 bird fly loophole fly was closed
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=536.msg7167#msg7167
date=1305557445]
> Scott That fine! Glad we understand each other. I was right
that you are not impressed with regional contests. And we will
leave it at that. But remember, those regional wins accumulated
those points toward you Master Flyer award! So they do count for
something. Thanks for the good luck, I will need it. I will
always be an amateur, 365 days a year. I like to boast of the
fly records of the flyers in my region, but I am pleased with
whatever luck I have with my birds. I too, am a back yard flyer
most of the time, and proud of it. On the rare occasions a judge
stops by , I try to put up a kit or two for his evaluation and
see if his standard is close to mine. I don't think anyone
would begrudge a master flyer talking about his birds, good or
bad. Who knows your strain better than you? Cliff
>
>
> [quote author=MOTHERLODELOFTS link=topic=536.msg7158#msg7158
date=1305418923]
> Cliff.. I know what it's like to fly in a competitive region
.. keep in mind this region used to take in all of N. Calif.
Our state fly took in all of those that qualified for the NBRC
and WC , yea a little competitive to say the least. It makes
you step up your game no doubt.
> Maybe I'm a little Calased because I honestly don't know how
many times I've qualified for the WC or the NBRC .. all that
matters for me is the finals for the record and I am honestly
not that impressed at all where regionial flys are concerned.
The finals is where the rubber truely meets the road as far as
where I am concerned and that is where the real competition is.
> There is two things that I never do , one is boast about my
fly record , and the other is you never see me talking up my
birds. The fact is I don't need too, they stand on thier own
merit. But one thing is for sure,,these birds can make it look
like amature day on any given day regardless of who you are.
> With all of this said I am more just playing with the pigeons
as a backyard flyer at this point due to work . So yes my teams
will suffer at least for now. Good luck in the finals !
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [quote author=Cliff Ball link=topic=536.msg7113#msg7113
date=1305307010]
> Good morning to you too, Scott
> You don't place much stock in regional fly wins, do you? I
have some real competition flyers in my region and I think the
qualifiers in my region, have to try just a little harder to
earn that spot in the finals. Maybe you would understand better
if you were flying in this region. I think Ty understands my
point. If you don't understand , don't worry about it, it's just
my opinion anyway.
>
> I think it was Joe A who started making regional comparisons.
I'm just helping him compare apples to apples.
>
> Cliff
>
> PS. I haven't had to elevate myself much since I hit 6'9". Big
Grin
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
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