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DIR Return to: Selection From The Air and Perch
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#Post#: 5825--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: 2y4life
Date: March 31, 2011, 6:44 pm
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--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> I know that some of you have heard me tell this story already,
but when North Carolina hosted the NBRC Convention, I trained a
kit of birds donated for auction, by Master Flyer Clay Hoyle,
NBRC 11-bird Champion Jay Yandle, World Cup Champion Joe Bob
Stuka, NBRC 20-bird Champion Charlie Stack, NBRC 11-bird
Champion Don Simpson, myself and several other reputable
Carolina fliers in our region. Before we flew them, we asked the
convention attendees, which included novice and veteran fliers
from accross the nation, to select the bird that would be judged
the best performer in the air when we flew them. After displaing
them in show cages and the men made their selections, we flew
the kit and a three-man panel composed of Randy Gibson, Scott
Campbell and Brent Martindale selected the best performer. Not
one NBRC convention attendee chose the correct bird from the
show cage as the best performer that was selected from the air!
You would think that at least one guy would have gotten lucky!
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
I think this answers the original post best. And yes Cliff, any
flyer can watch watch 30 rollers in separate cages for months
and more likely than not, won't be able to pick the best
performing bird. The air is the true test. A man one told me
when I asked about what eye colors are best in rollers based on
his 40 years of working with rollers and he said "Tou, all I
look for in eyes is that it has two eyes; one on each side of
its head and they work."
This is like another oft asked question: "Would you stock an
unflown, unproven bird?" If I truly believe that I've got the
"Eye" to spot a champion roller, then I'd stock it without ever
flying it.
That's why I believe that a person can't base ability from the
perch or show cage alone. Now if you have a family that you have
worked with for many years, it is more likely that you may be
able to tell which bird is more likely to be a better performer.
Even at that, the chances of looking at birds without ever
seeing them fly and being able to pick the ONE is slim to none.
Again, just my personal opinion.
#Post#: 5827--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: Joe Asaro
Date: April 1, 2011, 12:00 am
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2y4life....Pensom was able to go to a loft and pick matting's
that produced some great birds for the breeder. :o Joe
#Post#: 5828--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: April 1, 2011, 1:03 am
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No , it impossible to tell by anyone and it is a fast road to
nowhere , true bums can be be spotted with an experianced eye
but everything else is a wild card..there just simply are no
shortcuts
--- Quote from: n00bR0113rs link ---
>
> Was there ever a case where picking from the perch you just
knew that, that bird was going to be good in the air?
> What was his or her characteristic traits?
> Maybe personality/ attitude?
> Did his or her body structure look very appealing?
> How does this one bird interact with other birds?
> Maybe i'm thinking too much but i like observing my
birds.(sometime has to much time on lol..)
>
> Pigeon people are the best.
> Xee
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 5829--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: April 1, 2011, 1:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Really ? or was he just able to eliminate the bums easily from
non refinded birds that bred all over the board ?
--- Quote from: Joe Asaro link ---
>
> 2y4life....Pensom was able to go to a loft and pick matting's
that produced some great birds for the breeder. :o Joe
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 5830--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: April 1, 2011, 1:10 am
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Jon is a 100 0/0 correct
--- Quote from: Tony Chavarria link ---
>
> [quote author=wishiwon2 link=topic=464.msg5792#msg5792
date=1301509995]
> "...Experience will give you the chance to make an educated
guess. It has become the achilles heel of lots of rollermen and
bloodlines. Thinking they know what to look for, they make wrong
choice after wrong choice and end up will substandard performers
over the long term..."
>
> This breed is all about what it can do, not how it looks or
acts. There are correlations between them, but they are not
absolute.
>
--- End Quote ---
Provide evidence please.
[/quote]
#Post#: 5831--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: April 1, 2011, 1:22 am
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The reason for that is simple Cliff ,it was simply an average
looking kit bird , nothing stood out as far as good or bad , but
what it had was what can't be seen from anyone now or ever, no
one can see what a bird has inside as far as roll impulse.. sure
you can pretty accuratly see strong or weak in the mental and
physical department which plays an important part in guestaments
, but that is all there is.. but what can't be seen is the
impulse to roll and how much it has .. obviously the ideal is
the strong pigeon loaded with the roll impulse.
--- Quote from: Cliff Ball link ---
>
> I know that some of you have heard me tell this story already,
but when North Carolina hosted the NBRC Convention, I trained a
kit of birds donated for auction, by Master Flyer Clay Hoyle,
NBRC 11-bird Champion Jay Yandle, World Cup Champion Joe Bob
Stuka, NBRC 20-bird Champion Charlie Stack, NBRC 11-bird
Champion Don Simpson, myself and several other reputable
Carolina fliers in our region. Before we flew them, we asked the
convention attendees, which included novice and veteran fliers
from accross the nation, to select the bird that would be judged
the best performer in the air when we flew them. After displaing
them in show cages and the men made their selections, we flew
the kit and a three-man panel composed of Randy Gibson, Scott
Campbell and Brent Martindale selected the best performer. Not
one NBRC convention attendee chose the correct bird from the
show cage as the best performer that was selected from the air!
You would think that at least one guy would have gotten lucky!
> Cliff
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 5832--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: April 1, 2011, 1:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Never should anyone breed from the perch, and I mean never , but
what you can learn by observation is how to pair your birds far
more efficient after they have prooven themselfs in the air ,
what they did from day one in the kitbox to maturity into the
roll absolutly has to be taken into account also in the
pairings.. there simply is no other way... it is also worth
noting that not all birds good in the air should be bred out of
either for one reason or another.
--- Quote from: Tony Chavarria link ---
>
> Yeah Cliff, I remember that story. But I just want to point
out that I think the real value to this thread is that keen
observation over lengthy period of time tends to produce a
better result when picking birds from the perch. I think also
that no one is claiming to to spot champions, just the subtle
sign and cues that perhaps point to a better than average bird.
>
> I think it should also be pointed out that the goal for these
specially selected birds is to produce the goods in their
offspring. If they can't, it was a bad selection, if they
produce good ones, it was a good selection. So there is a
process by which these types of birds are tested.
>
> So if you have a higher propensity to pick good ones from the
perch, you got the eye to pick "the one".
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 5833--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: MOTHERLODELOFTS
Date: April 1, 2011, 1:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I could show you two kitboxes , one loaded with as good as they
come and the other all culls , few could pick which is which...
just a something to chew on
--- Quote from: WhiteWing link ---
>
> Hello Tony, and thanks for the welcome. I totally agree with
you there, IF a breeder selects for certain traits in his birds,
along with the rolling ability of course, they can be bred to
resemble a certain desired look or structural appearance
accompanying the traits of a good roller. I'll be the first to
admit, I haven't gotten to that height of standard yet with my
family, but I know it can be achieved.
>
> I'm a young gun to the roller world, so any input is welcomed
:D
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 5834--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: April 1, 2011, 4:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MOTHERLODELOFTS link ---
>
> Never should anyone breed from the perch, and I mean never ,
but what you can learn by observation is how to pair your birds
far more efficient after they have prooven themselfs in the air
, what they did from day one in the kitbox to maturity into the
roll absolutly has to be taken into account also in the
pairings.. there simply is no other way... it is also worth
noting that not all birds good in the air should be bred out of
either for one reason or another.
>
> [quote author=Tony Chavarria link=topic=464.msg5822#msg5822
date=1301604377]
> Yeah Cliff, I remember that story. But I just want to point
out that I think the real value to this thread is that keen
observation over lengthy period of time tends to produce a
better result when picking birds from the perch. I think also
that no one is claiming to to spot champions, just the subtle
sign and cues that perhaps point to a better than average bird.
>
> I think it should also be pointed out that the goal for these
specially selected birds is to produce the goods in their
offspring. If they can't, it was a bad selection, if they
produce good ones, it was a good selection. So there is a
process by which these types of birds are tested.
>
> So if you have a higher propensity to pick good ones from the
perch, you got the eye to pick "the one".
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Strong assertion is not evidence
#Post#: 5836--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "One"
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: April 1, 2011, 4:17 am
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As usual, nuances and personal experience are ignored for bull
in the china shop dogmatism. How uninteresting and devoid of any
value.
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