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#Post#: 1295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Cliff Ball Date: October 12, 2010, 4:04 pm
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Let's say the kit was 500-600 yards away, a distance far enough
away where the birds were "visible" and the depth was able to be
estimated but the wing positions were not discernable. Now what
should the judge do? If we really believe that a wing position
alone is grounds for NOT scoring a bird, then if the wing
position is clearly NOT evident during a break..... Then some
would have us believe the entire break is not scoreable! Some
want us to believe that we just extrapolate the wing positions
from what the judge could see clearly as they elevate or before
time in or wing positions seen but not during a break. I say
the rules clearly state that the D&Q are averaged only from
birds that scored. YOU ARE THE JUDGE, what should you do? Ask
the flyer if he wants to call a time out till the birds return
into range that the wing positions are clearly visible? How far
do we really want to push this issue? Hey, if you don't see a
fault, the judge should score the bird. But this is different,
If you can't clearly see the wing positions of all birds
involved in a break, should it be scored? A reasonable
solution would be to count the breaks as long as the depth can
be estimated and the birds counted. If an axle wing is in the
break but rolls fast enough and rolls deep enough, either deduct
the number of non-scoring birds ( Like any other bird with
faults) from the break If he can , or if he can't, lower the Q
to compensate for the poor quality observed. I see both ways
as ways for a solution to this tiny problem. If the judge simply
deducts birds from the break, then even tho axle wingers are
present in the kit the Quality multiplier should NOT be affected
since the birds in question were not scored? Oh yeah, should
the over-all quality of the kit should play into these
calculations? NOPE only birds scored in the breaks. If birds
with faults do not get scored, they also do not count against
the quality. That requires great discipline onthe part of the
judge. Cliff
#Post#: 1297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: michael salus Date: October 12, 2010, 5:53 pm
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I would never, never, score a kit that's 500 or 600 yards
away ....!!!!
#Post#: 1299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: wannaroll Date: October 12, 2010, 6:57 pm
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I have heard judges say the birds are too high to score, or they
are getting close to that. My understanding is if 5 or more
birds roll together more than 10 feet they should be scored.
that's why the judges give the quality multiplier from 1 to 2.
As the comp rules are now they should be scored. Now not all
judges score the birds this way, but there should be some kind
of written standard and all judges should abide by this. I think
we should go as far as certifying judges and maybe having two or
more judges for the World Cup and Fall Fly. I have heard that
some clubs are using more than 1 judge and averaging the scores
between the 2.
Personally my birds mostly ball up but their depth is not always
there. Hopefully I gain some depth as the birds mature.
Dave Almon (SBMS)
#Post#: 1300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Ty Coleman Date: October 12, 2010, 7:03 pm
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[quote author=deepwithspeed link=topic=128.msg1285#msg1285
date=1286901500]
Ty,
When it says that "loose" and "sloppy" rolls should not be
scored, what does that mean to you? Birds with their wings
sticking out, are "loose" and "sloppy" rollers.
DeepWithSpeed
[/quote]
Birds with there wings out are not always loose and sloppy, that
is just your opinion. A loose bird to me is one that can't get
balled up [cant see the whole because of being loose], a sloppy
bird to me is just what it say's sloppy, two different wing
positions or either rolling sideways, coming out backwords, not
clean going in, basicly a bird with a glitch[ non scorable]
#Post#: 1301--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: BigShawn Date: October 12, 2010, 7:03 pm
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[quote author=Wannaroll link=topic=128.msg1299#msg1299
date=1286927866]
I have heard judges say the birds are too high to score, or they
are getting close to that. My understanding is if 5 or more
birds roll together more than 10 feet they should be scored.
that's why the judges give the quality multiplier from 1 to 10.
As the comp rules are now they should be scored. Now not all
judges score the birds this way, but there should be some kind
of written standard and all judges should abide by this. I think
we should go as far as certifying judges and maybe having two or
more judges for the World Cup and Fall Fly. I have heard that
some clubs are using more than 1 judge and averaging the scores
between the 2.
Personally my birds mostly ball up but their depth is not always
there. Hopefully I gain some depth as the birds mature.
Dave Almon (SBMS)
[/quote]Thats a good idea to have 3 judges score the fly then
average the 3. Shawn
#Post#: 1303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: BigShawn Date: October 12, 2010, 7:06 pm
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[quote author=Ty Coleman link=topic=128.msg1300#msg1300
date=1286928198]
[quote author=deepwithspeed link=topic=128.msg1285#msg1285
date=1286901500]
Ty,
When it says that "loose" and "sloppy" rolls should not be
scored, what does that mean to you? Birds with their wings
sticking out, are "loose" and "sloppy" rollers.
DeepWithSpeed
[/quote]
Birds with there wings out are not always loose and sloppy, that
is just your opinion. A loose bird to me is one that can't get
balled up [cant see the whole because of being loose], a sloppy
bird to me is just what it say's sloppy, two different wing
positions or either rolling sideways, coming out backwords, not
clean going in, basicly a bird with a glitch[ non scorable]
[/quote]Ty I think that all goes back to writing and addoptting
a standard approver by the fliers. Shawn
#Post#: 1305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Ty Coleman Date: October 12, 2010, 7:09 pm
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Shawn, a good thought out written standard would put us all on
the same page and take all the opinions " your's ,mine, and all
others" out of the playing field.
#Post#: 1313--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: wannaroll Date: October 13, 2010, 12:23 am
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One problem we will run into is that the NBRC doesn't seem to
want any change. Hell the website is so outdated it's almost
embarrasing. How can we go about changing rules and adopt
standards? I guess it will take voting in change. :o
#Post#: 1315--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Jay_Mua_Lee Date: October 13, 2010, 12:34 am
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wannaroll you should just focus on the dept LOL.... :o backfire
LOL
[quote author=Wannaroll link=topic=128.msg1313#msg1313
date=1286947418]
One problem we will run into is that the NBRC doesn't seem to
want any change. Hell the website is so outdated it's almost
embarrasing. How can we go about changing rules and adopt
standards? I guess it will take voting in change. :o
[/quote]
#Post#: 1322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Cliff Ball Date: October 13, 2010, 8:00 am
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Superior Spinners OK, would you score a break where you could
NOT identify the wing positions? If it were, maybe, too Dark,
too bright, at a bad angle, but you could estimate the depth and
count the number of birds in the break, would you score it?
Cliff
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