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#Post#: 1217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: October 10, 2010, 12:19 pm
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Shawn.. Axel wingers being considered culls in "not" and
opinion.. it is a fact.. and that is why there is even a
discussion about it.. You won't have this same discussion with
birds that roll with their wings up.
#Post#: 1220--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Ty Coleman Date: October 10, 2010, 12:40 pm
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Prove your "fact" in a rule or standard Scott. You can't ! And
as far as raising my standard i'm fine with it, i'm within the
written NBRC rules. P.S I have never owned a axle as you like to
insinuate. But I do have several fast x wingers that should be
scored no matter who is the judge.
#Post#: 1221--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: BigShawn Date: October 10, 2010, 12:49 pm
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I was just wondering if there was away to have them (judges)
certified? That way who ever else was to judge would be
certified with the same standards. It would take alot to start
something like that. But it would stop alot of arguing on what
is right and wrong with eachothers birds. We all like certain
things about our own birds but if up wings are the standard then
we will start to cull axle rollers and vise versa. It's just
hard to watch people who take their likes and dislikes with
eachother so personaly. I joined this site to learn from people
who love to fly as much as I. I dont mean to prech but I dont
like to read the arguing insted of conversing and sharing of
what you have learned. Shawn
#Post#: 1222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: BigShawn Date: October 10, 2010, 12:54 pm
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Ty I wish I could come to Ga. and see your birds fly and just
sit and shot the s**t. There are many on here I would like to
spend the day with. But for now I enjoy chatin on here with you
guys. I went to collage and played football for 3 years and when
I stopped playing I think in a way I stopped learning. Now I
want to learn as much as I can about this little athletic little
bird from as many people as I can. Thanks for sharing guys.
Shawn
#Post#: 1223--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Ty Coleman Date: October 10, 2010, 1:04 pm
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[quote author=BigShawn link=topic=128.msg1221#msg1221
date=1286732940]
I was just wondering if there was away to have them (judges)
certified? That way who ever else was to judge would be
certified with the same standards. It would take alot to start
something like that. But it would stop alot of arguing on what
is right and wrong with eachothers birds. We all like certain
things about our own birds but if up wings are the standard then
we will start to cull axle rollers and vise versa. It's just
hard to watch people who take their likes and dislikes with
eachother so personaly. I joined this site to learn from people
who love to fly as much as I. I dont mean to prech but I dont
like to read the arguing insted of conversing and sharing of
what you have learned. Shawn
[/quote]
Shawn, Scott loves me what can I say. I am just trying to make a
point. If H style is the standard then put it in print, then we
will all comply but until then even a axle should score, that is
the rules ! And no one person should use the loop holes the NBRC
has left in the rules to force there own personal opinion. I
don't consider this a argument but more of a debate. It does
gripe me that a handfull of fliers are trying to put this in a
rule without going to the general membership for a vote though,
well thats what I was told anyway it may just be a rumor.
#Post#: 1224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Ty Coleman Date: October 10, 2010, 1:08 pm
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[quote author=BigShawn link=topic=128.msg1222#msg1222
date=1286733248]
Ty I wish I could come to Ga. and see your birds fly and just
sit and shot the s**t. There are many on here I would like to
spend the day with. But for now I enjoy chatin on here with you
guys. I went to collage and played football for 3 years and when
I stopped playing I think in a way I stopped learning. Now I
want to learn as much as I can about this little athletic little
bird from as many people as I can. Thanks for sharing guys.
Shawn
[/quote]
Come on down anytime ! The hawks have been better to me than
last year so I still have a descent kit in the air as of now. If
I can just keep them up and together untill November.
#Post#: 1227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: MOTHERLODELOFTS Date: October 10, 2010, 3:06 pm
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Ty.. a bird spinning like a ball is a bird showing "NO" wing ..
I used H wing as my min. standard while judging the finals last
year.
The 11 bird fly is "supposed" to be a venue for top shelf
quality .. X wing is bottom shelf any way you shake it.
Don't get me wrong.. I breed more X wingers than I care to
admit.. the difference is I guess is that I know they (X
wingers) are bottom rung.
Now if you change your mindset that such birds are undesireable
and unacceptable what is going to happen in your breeding
program ?
Ty.. I'm going to share with you the best advice that I ever got
about competition .. here goes ( Put up a team that can't be
denied and there will never be a question about the judge) I
have found this to hold very very true .. never have I had a
truelly good kit not score under "any" judge.
Now quit thinking bottom shelf !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#Post#: 1229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Ty Coleman Date: October 10, 2010, 5:31 pm
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I used H wing as my min. standard while judging the finals last
year.
The 11 bird fly is "supposed" to be a venue for top shelf
quality .. X wing is bottom shelf any way you shake it.
THIS IS STILL YOUR PERSONAL OPINION. This is not fact or in the
rules. Show me it written in the rules...Until then it will
remain your personal opinion and all birds that fit within the
written NBRC rules should be scored. ;)
#Post#: 1233--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Cliff Ball Date: October 10, 2010, 8:51 pm
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[font=bookman old style]
Ty
I have been harping on the vagueness of our rules for many
years. Until the NBRC EC discusses all wing positions and comes
to agreement how they should be ranked, good, better , best,
average and unscore able, and the flying members vote to accept
the EC's judgement, only the judge can determine what is
scoreable and what is unscoreable. The integrity clause you
posted gives the judge every right to set his own rules and his
own standard. We have no say in the matter. As long as he is
consistent throughout the kits he judges, the best kit should
win.
As you can see, wing positions are not mentioned in the fly
rules, EXCEPT the wording " SPINNING QUICKLY LIKE A BALL". That
is what it says and a judge is within his rights to ONLY judge
birds than meet that standard. A lot of wing positions can look
like a spinning ball depending on the vantage point of the
observer, though "MOST" judges would score other wing positions
also, not just the "spinning ball".
You have pointed out the fact that it seems like another
wording error has been found and needs to be examined. But I
doubt it will. Too many guys like the vague rules just the way
they are.
I personally feel this should be taken up by the NBRC EC ASAP,
but most hot button issues fail to get addressed until the
membership raise enough stink to get the attention needed.
Personally, I have never seen performance interpreted so
literally before.
Cliff[/font]
#Post#: 1234--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wing position
By: Cliff Ball Date: October 10, 2010, 8:58 pm
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[font=Bookman Old Style]
Guys,
This whole argument about axle wing rollers, is a mole hill made
into a mountain.
Scott, how many did you personally witness during your NBRC
finals judging? Nobody breeds for this style and when they
happen to pop up they are more a novelty than anything else. The
fact is, they are few and far between and "most " flyers
wouldn't have them around, and have probably never even seen
one..
They are only one a wing position, and all wing positions need
to be addressed, discussed and listed as score-able or nonscore
able.
Right now your "UNIVERSAL" opinion is NOT so universal, but is
an opinion who a majority of flyers share and it needs to be
addressed in the fly rules so it is known by all who fly
competition. THEN... it's universal. smile
Judges who will judge axle rollers are as rare as judges who
refuse to score anything but Spinning ball type rollers, so the
two cancel each other out. But, just to clarify.....ball type
rollers are NOT an, H or an X..... they are 0 ( ball) type
rollers.
Cfliff[/font]
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