DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Roller Pigeons
HTML https://rollerpigeon.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 11768--------------------------------------------------
The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: KevinM
Date: October 8, 2012, 9:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Can we get a name addition of Birmingham tumblers for those
birds that are from birmingham roller stock but just do a few
flips or tumbles. They may look like a classic birmingham roller
but just dont possess the "goods". A marketing tool to avoid
misrepresentation of lesser quality but which retain the classic
birmingham look and parentage?
#Post#: 11769--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: October 8, 2012, 9:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Kevin, I think we have a distinction already and it is the
use of the adjective "true" as in "...there is the true
Birmingham Roller which turns over backwards with inconceivable
rapidity through a considerable distance like a spinning ball ."
... which is considered the breed standard describing the
performance of the ideal Birmingham Roller.
So what is needed in the hobby is a proper understanding and
comprehension of the words used in the standard that is printed
in Pensom's book "The Birmingham Roller Pigeon" on page 18
paragraph 3.
So here is how the word "true" would be used or not used; one
can say something like this: "These are true Birmingham
Rollers...wanna buy some?" versus "these are Birmingham
Rollers...wanna buy some"? The informed roller fancier would
then ask "ahhh...but are they TRUE Birmingham Rollers"? ;)
How the person responds will clearly indicate his comprehension
of the breed standard and your proper use of the adjective
"true". I wrote an article regarding the breed/aerial standard
where I have broken it down, here is the link to read it CLICK
HERE
HTML http://www.roller-pigeon.com/articles/article/8406517/162645.htm.
#Post#: 11771--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: Sound Rollers
Date: October 9, 2012, 7:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The Birmingham Roller is not a breed, just a designation, a
designation of the best Tumbles.
Here's how it would go if Mr. Pensom were to visit my loft;
Me - Mr. Pensom how do you like my Birmingham Rollers?
Pensom - Those are not Birmingham Rollers "The true Birmingham
Roller is one which turns over backwards with inconceivable
rapidity through a considerable distance like a spinning ball ."
Pensom - You have a nice kit of Tumblers, keep trying.
John
#Post#: 11773--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: raul carreiro
Date: October 9, 2012, 8:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
John, you have given me a really good laugh out of your post
LOL! If we cant laugh at ourselves once in a while we would go
nuts with these birds LOL!
#Post#: 11778--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: KevinM
Date: October 9, 2012, 10:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My response to Mr. Pensom would be, prove to me what
inconceivable rapidity is and considerable distance is. Because
my True Birmingham Roller Revolves over its transverse axis 5
times per 1/4 second, for a duration of 1.5 seconds, for a
distance of 30-35 feet(as recorded by a altimeter device that is
calibrated for an accuracy up to the inch). My inconceivalbe
rapidity can be conceived, not because its a tumbler but I have
used technology to precisely dictate what I mean!!
This should be the standard we move towards. You dont say you
have a fast car without someone saying, what is its top speed,
quarter mile time etc.
Id rather have birds that can be shown to spin at so many
rpms(either via high speed camera or other means) and shoot for
goals of numbers(distance, time, revolutions) not because I use
the tree in the 60 foot tree in my yard as a measuring stick,
but technology or some less subjective way
#Post#: 11781--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: October 9, 2012, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Kevin, I think you are setting up a straw man where there is
not need for one. If you read the article I linked to and
comprehend its context, you will understand that roller men in
the 1800's (when this phrase was coined) and perhaps until you
now, just did not have the technology you are fortunate enough
to have access to as you were born in a time of history where
such technology is available (nothing you did).
What's interesting is your "data" ??? coincide perfectly with
Pensom's quote of Lewis Wrights written description. Perhaps
what you fail to understand is that Pensom is merely using
"rhetoric" not the "dialectic" to describe the performance. He
did not have access to your equipment, if he did, something
tells me he would have used it to back up the rhetorical
description. 8)
Now, my question is can you make your measuring device
economical for the rest of us to own one so we too can measure
with such precision as you? If not, then the rhetoric is all we
have... :D
#Post#: 11783--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: KevinM
Date: October 9, 2012, 11:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Tony, I just want to stir some interest in you guys being
more objective with your birds because you do an outstanding job
breeding and flying. I understand Pensom didnt technology like
we do and would have used it if he did! I DO NOT have such data!
It is only the dream to look forwards too. However, it can be
set up to be done with affordability in mind. I would love to
give someone my altimeter to see what you get and how it can be
used if at ALL! Theoretically, why not! But practically
speaking, still needs to be flushed out. As for counting
revolutions, high speed cameras are becoming affordable but not
for everyone. It would be a great business idea however.
We will start with you Tony, Ill come out, we shall film some
birds with high speed telesopic video, get some great footage,
slow it down watch style/conformation etc. document as much as
we can!
ANother idea is each club raise money to buy such things, that
way everyone can have access and start working on capturing
quality footage and using some quantitative tech.(All an idea,
not reality)
Basically getting video like this:
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGwDOzpTcgs
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGwDOzpTcgs
shouldnt have to be something we cant do ourselves.
#Post#: 11785--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: Tony Chavarria
Date: October 9, 2012, 2:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike, I will get a team ready for next flying season and you
can come out. I think it would be cool to get some good video of
my birds. I will let you know when the birds are ready and we'll
make arrangements. Thanks! :D
As for having facts/video proof or whatever...reminds me of
this: I remember a while back I get a call from a guy
challenging me on how a roller should roll and I ask him after
much prodding to explain to me the aerial/breed standard for the
Birmingham Roller that is published and pretty much accepted as
the standard description and he finally admits he does not know.
How does a guy go around pontificating on the roll and doesn't
have a clue as to what the conventional wisdom is? ???
He says he does not keep a bird that does not show the hole
EVERY TIME it rolls. I asked him how, if the hole which is about
the size of a quarter - does he see this when his birds are
flying 150 to 300 feet in the air or higher? So the fact of the
matter is is that he does NOT actually see the hole each and
every time his birds roll. ::)
Now other guys will say that unless the bird "balls up" and
almost stands still in the air, it is not rolling with proper
velocity. :o On and on it goes. People need to be taught what
the aerial standard is so that there is commonality in our
understanding of any standard and the Lewis Wright quote is
probably the best we have and had stood the test of time for
over a hundred years.
Okay, I have to go ship birds now or some customers are going to
wonder why they didn't get their birds this week! ;D
Good topic!
#Post#: 11787--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: raul carreiro
Date: October 9, 2012, 2:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Tony this is a good topic indeed! What I find most interesting
is that there is only one standard or lack of a standard that
when interpreted, according to the understanding of each
individual, often times leaves the novice such as myself even
more bewildered! As you rightly point out how can anyone just
keep birds that show the hole each and every time while flying
at different altitudes and viewing positions? The elusive hole
many talk about in my experience, I have only seen from a side
view. Now Im sure that a few on here will disagree and want to
pick me apart on my view!
#Post#: 11822--------------------------------------------------
Re: The birmingham tumbler??
DIR By: nephilim
Date: October 16, 2012, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey all.
This is a fantastic post and one that can run
forever,as everyone has a opinion to what a birmingham roller
is. I got back into the hobby last year after 20yr break, and
found hundreds of would be rollers for sale on the internet. I
travelled up and down Britain trying to buy the type of bird I
used to keep. Now no disrespect to anyone but on the whole I
thought the birds I saw a poor show for the roller I remembed
and kept. I saw birds doing single flips to 15ft drops all rung
with a known national club ring!! These birds in my mind are
tumblers, I expect a roller to travel the depth of a two storey
house or farther! As I looked more I discovered the "short"
rollers are in vogue with competition flyers, because they
return to the kit faster! But is this what Pensom call a true
roller? Again the birds fly lower than use to. So maybe the
birmingham tumbler is correct? My best bird spins for just under
3seconds but is nowhere near 40feet nevermind greater, my 2nd
best cock spins for same time, but looks as if he's stationary
he's that tight in his roll. Since getting back into tje birds
I've decided to try and breed for depth and follow what I
believe to be the true roller.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 4
DIR Next Page