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DIR Return to: In-Breeding Rollers
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#Post#: 11669--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: raul carreiro
Date: September 26, 2012, 3:09 pm
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--- Quote from: Mathieu link ---
>
> Hi Raul,
>
> I would also make an educated guess and say that the
percentage of producing good birds from good parents is higher
than breeding bad birds and trying to produce an average kit :D
. However I agree with you it's not that simple, it takes years
of experience and lots of hard work producing a great kit of
birds
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with you 100% The percentage of producing good birds
from good birds is higher than breeding from inferior birds :D
It is still my "educated" guess however that the percentage of
good birds bred from good birds is low, as much as 20% or
lower! There was another topic started on the subject of
percentages of good birds bred last year on the forum, maybe
Tony can find the link for us ;D
#Post#: 11670--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: Mathieu
Date: September 26, 2012, 11:31 pm
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Thanks Raul, I would appreciate that
#Post#: 11671--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: johnjay
Date: September 26, 2012, 11:42 pm
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My opinion inbreeding is not a bad thing but it is a tool...
Inbreeding can lead to all kinds of problems if not used
correctly.... I think line breeding is a form of inbreeding but
with less problems because more genes are in the pool for
meiosis. If you reintroduce that ideal blood back into the genes
pool again generation later, the better your chances of getting
that blood you want without the dangers of inbreeding.
#Post#: 11672--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: LittleJohn
Date: September 27, 2012, 6:28 am
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Raul, I would hope that my question about your educated guess
didn't strike a nerve, but you did explain it and I appreciate
that.
Inbreeding, in my opinion, and in my application...is used to
define and refine a family of birds. It is a method in which
the breeder becomes "nature" and natural selection is no longer
...natural, it's forced. To progress forward with only the best
examples of the stock you are working with, and constantly move
forward.
Will an inbred bird family of birds be excellent kit birds? In
my opinion no, nor can they be. But when they are crossed on
another line, or another inbred family, both families being
selected based on what you are trying to accomplish...and both
birds being..."the same" in several distinct areas....then you
can produce birds which will have the vigor and stamina that the
inbreds themselves lack....yet the qualities that they have been
bred to have.
This goes back to selection of the traits that you have selected
for from your inbred lines. They can only throw what they
are....
It's a very interesting and subjective topic, but truly a system
that can work very well if the time, patience and knowledge are
applied and strictly followed.
Have a great day guys, and keep em rollin'!
LittleJohn
#Post#: 11673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: raul carreiro
Date: September 27, 2012, 6:55 am
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LittleJohn,
If my addressing your question appears aggressive, I apologize.
That certainly was not my Intent! I respect and appreciate
everyones opinion on this forum. I am guilty at times however in
getting over excited when joining into a good debate :D AS a
matter of fact debates such as these are quite healthful and
invigorates the participation of others souls to join in ;) To
be clear I share the same opinion as you on the subject. As I
said I have not been in the roller hobby for very long, so my
opinion on breeding rollers does not carry much weight, but i
can say that with my involvement with other breeds over the
years, the best results I have come across have been when 2
Inbred lines were crossed together ;)
#Post#: 11674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: raul carreiro
Date: September 27, 2012, 7:05 am
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I would like the opinions from others on this forum. When one
crosses 2 inbred lines together and the results produce the
desired body type, feathering,performance etc, in the F1
crosses, can one maintain the desirable effects in the future
progeny of theses crosses without reverting back to Inbreeding?
#Post#: 11675--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: LittleJohn
Date: September 27, 2012, 9:17 am
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--- Quote ---
> the best results I have come across have been when 2 Inbred
lines were crossed together [img
alt=;)]
HTML http://rollerpigeon.createaforum.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif[/img]
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree!
To your last question, I believe that the only way to maintain
consistency in the F1 generation is to maintain inbred families
that you can use to create your flyers. JMO
LittleJohn
#Post#: 11676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: Mathieu
Date: September 27, 2012, 2:29 pm
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Mr. Pensome said that a good kit is one that performs the same
every time twelve months of the year. I agree with him, but
after years of breeding I have only had one or two kits which I
was proud to show my friends..........the only problem (Murphys
Law) they dind't perform as welll on the day :P .
I am happy with my birds but the perfect roller kit has illuded
me to date.
#Post#: 11677--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: raul carreiro
Date: September 27, 2012, 6:12 pm
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Well Mathieu, If Mr. Pensom were still around he would be
amazed at how much of a cult following he has! Shakespeare
once said that Macbeth was nothing more than the figment of its
creators imagination! Funny thing though is that there were no
Patent laws or Copy wright laws back then! Shakespeare was a
very wise man, he sold the idea of another mans creation as his
own product!!
#Post#: 11683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inbreeding Birmingham Rollers
DIR By: Mathieu
Date: September 27, 2012, 11:29 pm
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Good Morning Raul,
I agree with you. I know about Mr. Pensom because my Father's
friend gave me his book in the 70's. I know that many people
have a lot to say about Mr. Pensom good or bad, but the fact
remains that he made the effort to writte a book which gives
great guidelines about these facinating birds. In South Africa
we don't have much litreature on rollers we have to order our
books from the USA. I keep 3 breeding lofts. Loft one pure Ken
White strain which was imported by Mr. Cilliers in 1968 Loft two
Ollie Harris birds and loft three I am trying to create my own
strain which I have been battling for years. I also have three
kits which I fly and only keep the best birds for breeding and
cull the rest
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