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#Post#: 7300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: June 6, 2017, 10:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[center]Big batteries can store power when the sun doesn't
shine[/center]
Lloyd Alter (@lloydalter) Energy / Renewable Energy June 5, 2017
pumped storage
© Andrew Roberts/ New York Times
SNIPPET:
What is the difference between a battery and a power source? It
is sometimes hard to distinguish. If you build a dam and capture
the energy of falling water, it is considered power generation
from a power source, namely gravity. But if you pump water up a
hill and store it behind a dam until you need it, that's acting
as a battery; it is not making energy, it is just storing it. It
is a really important distinction; it is one of the reasons we
are not fans of hydrogen, considering it more a battery than a
fuel.
Diane Cardwell of The New York Times writes about The Biggest,
Strangest "Batteries" and explains how really, anything that can
store energy and release it later is a battery.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif
Full article:
HTML https://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/big-batteries-can-store-power-when-sun-doesnt-shine.html
#Post#: 7456--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: July 9, 2017, 1:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[center]Tesla Wins Contract for South Australia Energy Storage
Project [img width=25
height=50]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png[/img][/center]
July 7, 2017
By Perry Williams, Bloomberg
SNIPPET:
Elon Musk’s Tesla Inc. has won a tender to supply what the
billionaire says is the world’s largest lithium-ion battery to
back up the state of South Australia’s blackout-plagued power
grid, making good on a promise first made over Twitter four
months ago to help solve the state’s energy woes.
Tesla will provide 100 MW of storage by Dec. 1, pairing it with
a wind farm at Hornsdale north of Adelaide operated by France’s
Neoen, according to a statement on Friday from South Australian
Premier Jay Weatherill. The system, which will have capacity of
129 MWh, will provide enough power for more than 30,000 homes,
Tesla said in a separate statement.
We’re talking about something that’s three times as powerful as
the next biggest battery installation in the world,” Musk told
reporters in Adelaide.
Musk had previously promised to build the system and get it
working within 100 days of a contract being signed or Tesla
would provide it free, a vow he backed up on Friday.
[quote]
“We actually insisted when doing the contract that we be held to
the 100 days or it’s free,” Musk said. “That’s what we said
publicly, that’s what we’re going to do.”
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif
[/quote]
full article:
HTML http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2017/07/tesla-wins-contract-for-south-australia-energy-storage-project.html
#Post#: 7650--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 7, 2017, 11:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://www.electrical4u.com/electrical/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Parthian-Battery.jpg[/img][/center]
[quote]In the year of 1936 during the middle of summer, an
ancient tomb was discovered during construction of a new railway
line near Bagdad city in Iraq. The relics found in that tomb
were about 2000 years old. Among these relics, there were some
clay jars or vessels which were sealed at the top with pitch. An
iron rod, surrounded by a cylindrical tube made of wrapped
copper sheet was projected out from this sealed top.
When these pots were filled with an acidic liquid, they produced
a potential difference of around 2 volts between the iron and
copper. These clay jars are suspected to be 2000 year old
battery cells.[/quote]
HTML https://www.electrical4u.com/battery-history-and-working-principle-of-batteries/
#Post#: 7653--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 7, 2017, 1:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Surly1 link=topic=559.msg136605#msg136605
date=1502126920]
[quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg136596#msg136596
date=1502124200]
[center][img
width=320]
HTML https://www.electrical4u.com/electrical/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Parthian-Battery.jpg[/img][/center]
[quote]In the year of 1936 during the middle of summer, an
ancient tomb was discovered during construction of a new railway
line near Bagdad city in Iraq. The relics found in that tomb
were about 2000 years old. Among these relics, there were some
clay jars or vessels which were sealed at the top with pitch. An
iron rod, surrounded by a cylindrical tube made of wrapped
copper sheet was projected out from this sealed top.
When these pots were filled with an acidic liquid, they produced
a potential difference of around 2 volts between the iron and
copper. These clay jars are suspected to be 2000 year old
battery cells.[/quote]
HTML https://www.electrical4u.com/battery-history-and-working-principle-of-batteries/
HTML https://www.electrical4u.com/battery-history-and-working-principle-of-batteries/
[/quote]
This area of investigation has always fascinated me. We are
ever-so-smug in our presentism, that the ancients were a bunch
of ignorant rubes, but there are enough discoveries found in the
wrong place to indicate that we are wrong.
And then of course is the question of where the knowledge came
from.
[/quote]
[img width=40
height=40]
HTML http://www.clker.com/cliparts/c/8/f/8/11949865511933397169thumbs_up_nathan_eady_01.svg.hi.png[/img]
Yep. Your observation has some very important nuggets of wisdom
that most people do not even begin to undertand, never mind
taking to heart in order to realize how delibertely dumbed down
our society is.
The most important part of your obervation is the fact that
people are indoctrinated to BE smug about our incredibly,
STUPID, suicidally destructive society.
Smugness breeds the overcondence that always precedes dumb, and
sometines trajic, errors in judgement.
We don't need to go back to ancient times to see that at work
now. Tesla made it quite clear in the early 20th century that we
DID NOT NEED to use fossil fuels for ANYTHING because energy was
plentiful. But ignorant, brain washed people claim cheap, clean
energy, especially those who have eaten the happy talk for the
fossil fuel liars and crooks, as advocated by Nikola Tesla (and
Thomas Edison too, by the way) is a "pipe dream". ::)
Smug, brain washed people that actually believe the BALONEY that
we "owe" our standard of living to our "loyal servants, the
fossil fuel industry", when there is NO QUESTION that the
microscope (and the discovery of germs that cause disease) is
the REAL REASON for the human population explosion, will
continue to wallow in their stupidity until it is too late.
Personal hygiene is the CAUSE of the human population explosion,
not the fossil fuel based "economy".
The ancients certainly were not ignorant rubes. Nikola Tesla and
Thomas Edison weren't rubes either.
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://streetdemocracy.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/945572_460379020720415_819738100_n.jpg[/img]
[/center]
[center][img
width=640]
HTML http://cutelovequotesforher.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Nikola-Tesla-Quotes-with-Photos.jpg[/img][/center]
Before Edison said the following, he had gone on record over a
decade earlier clearly stating that hydrocarbon fuels for
internal combustion engines were INFERIOR to ethanol BECAUSE of
all the waste heat and resultant added engine wear. Ethanol only
engines would be TWO THIRDS lighter than hydrocarbon powered
engines because ethanol runs cool (because it carries it's own
oxygen with it causing TOTALLY EVEN BURNING), as well as being
renewable and polluting less. And it is also propaganda
mendacity out there that claims we would "cut into world food
supply by growing ethanol crops".
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/tissue.gifhttp://www.pic4ever.com/images/shame.gif
But telling bold face crocodile tear laden lies has never
stopped the brain washers that so many here smugly worship.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/gen152.gif
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://d3pcsg2wjq9izr.cloudfront.net/files/40866/images/Edison-solar-energy.jpg[/img][/center]
#Post#: 7655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 7, 2017, 4:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Agelbert NOTE: The payback on this new super-capacitor is about
nine years. Some will claim that is too much. Those who do are
ignorant fools who do not GET the fact that COST of using fossil
fuels is the Sixth Mass Extinction. You CANNOT EVER GET ANY "PAY
BACK" FROM fossil fuel and nuclear POLLUTING ENERGY SOURCES!
It is amazing how STUPID people can be when they irrationally
cling to the unsustainable fossil fuel powered status quo. The
product below is NOT "pie in the energy sky". They are
manufacturing it NOW. It WORKS in tiny devices and in scale all
the way to an electric bus and even utility level storage
solutions.
Consequently, this super-cap will be fought TOOTH AND NAIL by
the fossil fuelers because it DESTROYS all their Renewable
Energy electric powered device hand wringing about "slow
charging times". Yes, you will probably need to "fill your tank"
with charge more often than filling your gasoline tank. But this
small inconvenience is justified considering you DO NOT EVER
POLLUTE and can recharge in 30 SECONDS. IOW, you can stop for a
cup of coffee or a bathroom break and keep going as FAR AS YOU
WANT TO GO.
NO MORE "range anxiety" on EVs means the DEATH of hydrocarbon
fueled polluting engines for transportation. GOOD!
This super-cap technology IS NOT "ten years away", as some
IDIOT(s) may try to claim here. But, it may be delayed by fossil
fuel loving CROOKS AND LIARS that corrupt and pollute the US
Government and our country. So, Europe and china will probably
be using this technology for EVs much sooner than the backward
banana republic called the USA. [img
width=40]
HTML http://images.zaazu.com/img/Incredible-Hulk-animated-animation-male-smiley-emoticon-000342-large.gif[/img]
[center]The Fuel Tank of Tomorrow - A Super Capacitor?
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif[/center]
[center]
HTML https://youtu.be/3K8JIC-ov_Y[/center]
Viodi
Published on Dec 9, 2016
KiloWatt Labs CEO Omer Ghani explains in the above interview,
filmed at the IDTechEX Show!, that his company has overcome
these challenges and has begun shipping large-scale, super
capacitor-based energy storage solutions for applications such
as microgrid, renewable, utility and mobility. He indicates
their solution is a cost-competitive replacement for traditional
battery approaches,
Read more at:
HTML http://www.viodi.tv/2016/12/09/the-fu...
#Post#: 7656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 7, 2017, 7:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Agelbert NOTE: If this genius inventor, [font=times new
roman]Lonnie Johnon[/font] [img
width=50]
HTML http://www.haleakalasolar.com/images/index-infobox2.jpg[/img],<br
/>had been given the funding he needs, we would no longer have A
NY
fossil fuel use in our WORLD, not just our country. And that is
probably why (this talk is THREE YEARS OLD!) he has had so much
difficulty obtaining the multi-million dollar funding he needs
to mass produce and market his engine (already recognized as the
most efficient engine ever invented!) and battery technology
inventions. [img
width=30]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-120716190938.png[/img]
[center]Revolutionary designs for energy alternatives: Lonnie
Johnson at TEDxAtlanta[/center]
[center]
HTML https://youtu.be/9y39WNUdbkM[/center]
TEDx Talks
Published on Jun 3, 2014
Through a combination of scientific establishment and
independent inventor credentials, Lonnie Johnson is creating
green technologies that will revolutionize our approach to
energy solutions.
About TEDx, x = independently organized event
In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of
local, self-organized events that bring people together to share
a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live
speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a
small group. These local, self-organized events are branded
TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED
Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but
individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain
rules and regulations)
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/34/5a/bd/345abd7f66737d31656fefb4b088195a.jpg[/img][/center]
[move][I][font=impact]The Fossil Fuelers DID THE Clean Energy
Inventions suppressing, Climate Trashing, human health depleting
CRIME,[COLOR=BROWN] but since they have ALWAYS BEEN liars and
conscience free crooks, they are trying to AVOID [/color] DOING
THE TIME or PAYING THE FINE! Don't let them get away
with it! Pass it on!
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/176.gif<br
/>[/font][/I][/move]
#Post#: 7663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 8, 2017, 12:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=David B. link=topic=559.msg136652#msg136652
date=1502161640]
[quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg136616#msg136616
date=1502142880]
Agelbert NOTE: The payback on this new super-capacitor is about
nine years. Some will claim that is too much. Those who do are
ignorant fools who do not GET the fact that COST of using fossil
fuels is the Sixth Mass Extinction. You CANNOT EVER GET ANY "PAY
BACK" FROM fossil fuel and nuclear POLLUTING ENERGY SOURCES!
It is amazing how STUPID people can be when they irrationally
cling to the unsustainable fossil fuel powered status quo. The
product below is NOT "pie in the energy sky". They are
manufacturing it NOW. It WORKS in tiny devices and in scale all
the way to an electric bus and even utility level storage
solutions.
Consequently, this super-cap will be fought TOOTH AND NAIL by
the fossil fuelers because it DESTROYS all their Renewable
Energy electric powered device hand wringing about "slow
charging times". Yes, you will probably need to "fill your tank"
with charge more often than filling your gasoline tank. But this
small inconvenience is justified considering you DO NOT EVER
POLLUTE and can recharge in 30 SECONDS. IOW, you can stop for a
cup of coffee or a bathroom break and keep going as FAR AS YOU
WANT TO GO.
NO MORE "range anxiety" on EVs means the DEATH of hydrocarbon
fueled polluting engines for transportation. GOOD!
This super-cap technology IS NOT "ten years away", as some
IDIOT(s) may try to claim here. But, it may be delayed by fossil
fuel loving CROOKS AND LIARS that corrupt and pollute the US
Government and our country. So, Europe and China will probably
be using this technology for EVs much sooner than the backward
banana republic called the USA. [img
width=40]
HTML http://images.zaazu.com/img/Incredible-Hulk-animated-animation-male-smiley-emoticon-000342-large.gif[/img]
[center]The Fuel Tank of Tomorrow - A Super Capacitor?
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif[/center]
[center]
HTML https://youtu.be/3K8JIC-ov_Y[/center]
Viodi
Published on Dec 9, 2016
KiloWatt Labs CEO Omer Ghani explains in the above interview,
filmed at the IDTechEX Show!, that his company has overcome
these challenges and has begun shipping large-scale, super
capacitor-based energy storage solutions for applications such
as microgrid, renewable, utility and mobility. He indicates
their solution is a cost-competitive replacement for traditional
battery approaches,
Read more at:
HTML http://www.viodi.tv/2016/12/09/the-fu...
HTML http://www.viodi.tv/2016/12/09/the-fu...
[/quote] The super capacitors have real potential. It will be
interesting to watch them roll out and see where they go. The
arrays on off grid systems are getting larger all the time
faster then the battery banks the super caps might be a good
bridge between the fast changing solar availability and the
batteries slow take up of charge.
Interesting times.
[/quote]
True. Notice what KiloWatt Labs CEO Omer Ghani said in the video
after explaining, step by step, that they had ALREADY overcome
the super-cap rapid discharge problems along with obtaining
lithium ion batttery energy density compatibility without the
high lithium ion price:
[quote]"We have to get people to believe us." :o[/quote]
Omer Ghani has the product, has the evidence that the product
works and is cheaper than lithium ion battery technology at the
same or greater energy density, YET, they have trouble getting
people to believe them! THAT is prima facie evidence of how
incredibly brain washed our society has become (at the level of
ENGINEERS!), to the point where they take as "thermodynamics
gospel" the biosphere math challenged ERoEI double talk (happy
talk for fosssil fuels and "it's just too costly" for clean
energy sources), published for the last half century BY THE
FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY (Yep, THEY put those numbers, including
thermodynamics and fluid mechanics assumptions, in the
engineering textbooks! Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain
Institute has proven by experimentation that a lot of those
numbers are WRONG!), as the "standard" for credibility and
doability.
[center] [img width=200
height=100]
HTML http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2009/347/2/6/WTF_Smiley_face_by_IveWasHere.jpg[/img][/center]
No wonder it is so hard to get out of the death grip of the
fossil fuel industry destructive influence on our biosphere and
democracy. The idiots smokin' the fossil fuel baloney accuse
everybody advocating new inventions that enhance clean energy
use of "pipe dreams" or "smokin' somethin'". Ridicule is the
FIRST tool used to to try to defend the unsustainable status
quo. The ERoEI polluting energy sources happy talk comes next.
The fossil Fuel Industry century of propaganda BULLSHIT has
worked. Let us hope more people wake up to the stupidity of
believing absolutely anything coming from the polluters. We are
all dead if we do not destroy the fossil fuel industry VERY,
VERY soon.
#Post#: 7676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 10, 2017, 1:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Agelbert NOTE: Israel has finally demonstrated a tremendous
capacity for the obvious. ;) ;D I mean, DUH, it's hotter than
a pistol over there with SUN, SUN and MORE SUN baking the
stuffing out of the plant life, the animals, the bugs and the
people for at least the last 2,000 YEARS and more.
HTML http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/465/465823jzy0y15obs.gif<br
/>Pumped storage is the ultimate low maintenace cost, base load
level, INSTANT on demand, Renewable Energy Storage medium. And
putting a water surface where there is a lot of desert increases
the relative humidity in the surrounding area, thereby aiding in
plant life proliferation and desert greening. Yeah, I know, who
coulda
knowd?
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-030817202100.gif<br
/>
It has never ceased to amaze me how so many gooberments all over
the world can "justify" taxing we-the-people to build pipelines
hundreds of miles long to move hydrocarbon CRAP from here to
there, over ALL KINDS of terrain, but somehow never seem to be
been able to DO THAT with ocean OR fresh water UPHILL (except
for the extremely short pipes right next to dams that have some
minuscule pumped storage equipment).
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/gen152.gif
The fossil fuel
industry will indignantly claim they pay to build the pipelines,
not the gooberment. That is a very clever LIE. In 1987 our
fossil fuel gooberment gave the lie to that half truth, but most
people, OF COURSE, are not aware of that, thanks to all that
"SILENCE" from the mainstream media. [img
width=40]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013200859.png[/img]
Better late than never, I suppose.
[center]GE To Build 344 Megawatt Kokhav Hayarden Hydro Pumped
Storage Station In Israel[/center]
August 10th, 2017 by Joshua S Hill
SNIPPET:
GE Renewable Energy has landed the contract to supply and build
the 344-megawatt Kokhav Hayarden hydro pumped storage station in
Israel, which is expected to help stabilize the country’s
electricity grid.
[center]
HTML https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/08/GE-Hydro-1.jpg[/center]
On Tuesday, GE Renewable Energy revealed that it had booked a
turnkey contract with Israeli utility Star Pumped Storage, in
which GE will design, manufacture, supply, and install all the
necessary electro-mechanical and hydro-mechanical equipment for
the 344 MW (megawatt) Kokhav Hayarden hydro pumped storage
station. GE will also complete a balance of plant for the two
172 MW pumped-storage units, as well as provide 20 years of
operation and maintenance for the project.
The Kokhav Hayarden project will see development take 52 months,
and involve the construction of two reservoirs, and is expected
to be commissioned in 2021.
FULL ARTICLE:
HTML https://cleantechnica.com/2017/08/10/ge-build-israeli-344-mw-kokhav-hayarden-hydro-pumped-storage-station/
#Post#: 7737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 21, 2017, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://3.imimg.com/data3/RS/RP/MY-4202483/crystal-clear-ice-slabs-500x500.jpg[/img][/center]
[center]ICE made with excess Renewable Energy (or during off
peak hours) is an excellent "energy battery" to provide cooling
during hot temperatures.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif
[img
width=60]
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/8.gif[/img][/center]
[center]“Ice Battery” Technology Set To Cool Australian Homes &
Cut Peak Power Demand[/center]
August 21st, 2017 by Guest Contributor
Originally published on RenewEconomy.
By Sophie Vorrath
SNIPPET:
US-made thermal “ice battery” energy storage technology that
could dramatically change the way people cool their homes in
summer – potentially cutting household peak power consumption by
up to 95% – is poised to take on the Australian market, through
a distribution deal with local solar hot water company Apricus.
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/08/Ice-Energy.jpg[/img][/center]
California-based Ice Energy inked an agreement, in June, making
the Melbourne-based Apricus the exclusive distributor of all its
thermal energy storage products in Australia, covering all
market segments, including utilities, commercial and industrial,
and residential.
The company is best-known for its commercial and industrial Ice
Bear technology, which works alongside air conditioning units by
freezing water at off-peak periods, or when excess solar or wind
power is available, and using the “ice battery” [b]to provide
power-free cooling during on-peak periods.[/b] [img width=100
height=60]
HTML http://cliparts.co/cliparts/Big/Egq/BigEgqBMT.png[/img]
Full article: [img
width=175]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-060914180936.jpeg[/img]
HTML https://cleantechnica.com/2017/08/21/ice-battery-technology-set-cool-australian-homes-cut-peak-power-demand/
#Post#: 7741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Batteries
By: AGelbert Date: August 21, 2017, 10:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=AGelbert link=topic=81.msg7737#msg7737
date=1503342556]
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://3.imimg.com/data3/RS/RP/MY-4202483/crystal-clear-ice-slabs-500x500.jpg[/img][/center]
[center]ICE made with excess Renewable Energy (or during off
peak hours) is an excellent "energy battery" to provide cooling
during hot temperatures.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif
[img
width=60]
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/8.gif[/img][/center]
[center]“Ice Battery” Technology Set To Cool Australian Homes &
Cut Peak Power Demand[/center]
August 21st, 2017 by Guest Contributor
Originally published on RenewEconomy.
By Sophie Vorrath
SNIPPET:
US-made thermal “ice battery” energy storage technology that
could dramatically change the way people cool their homes in
summer – potentially cutting household peak power consumption by
up to 95% – is poised to take on the Australian market, through
a distribution deal with local solar hot water company Apricus.
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/08/Ice-Energy.jpg[/img][/center]
California-based Ice Energy inked an agreement, in June, making
the Melbourne-based Apricus the exclusive distributor of all its
thermal energy storage products in Australia, covering all
market segments, including utilities, commercial and industrial,
and residential.
The company is best-known for its commercial and industrial Ice
Bear technology, which works alongside air conditioning units by
freezing water at off-peak periods, or when excess solar or wind
power is available, and using the “ice battery” [b]to provide
power-free cooling during on-peak periods.[/b] [img width=100
height=60]
HTML http://cliparts.co/cliparts/Big/Egq/BigEgqBMT.png[/img]
Full article: [img
width=175]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-060914180936.jpeg[/img]
HTML https://cleantechnica.com/2017/08/21/ice-battery-technology-set-cool-australian-homes-cut-peak-power-demand/
[/quote]
[quote author=David B. link=topic=559.msg137310#msg137310
date=1503357753]
It's a great idea. Storage is still our Achilles heel for
renewables. Off grid especially. The arrays are getting bigger
and bigger with no way of using mid summer peak production. The
industry is also playing with electric hot water for summer use.
Gas in winter. They are are all batteries really.
Cheers, David B
[/quote]
Yep! [img
width=70]
HTML http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/yayayoy/yayayoy1106/yayayoy110600019/9735563-smiling-sun-showing-thumb-up.jpg[/img]<br
/>
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