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#Post#: 10018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: June 23, 2018, 4:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Surly1 link=topic=11222.msg156413#msg156413
date=1529703405]
[quote author=agelbert link=topic=11222.msg156399#msg156399
date=1529692379]
Among the many targets of COINTELPRO, the most serious attention
was paid to those movements that most threatened state
interests. The most violent repression under COINTELPRO was used
against the Black Panthers, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X,
the American Indian Movement, and the Puerto Rican independence
movement. [B]It was fueled by the state's need to preserve the
near total political and economic disenfranchisement of people
of color in the face of the first serious threats to the racial
status quo since post-Civil War Reconstruction. The need of the
American empire to keep Puerto Rico in its colonial orbit, while
it was losing the war in Southeast Asia, drove the violent
repression there and against Puerto Rican immigrants in the
United States[/b].
HTML http://www.isreview.org/issues/49/cointelpro.shtml
HTML http://www.isreview.org/issues/49/cointelpro.shtml[/quote]
MLK, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers, Harry and Harriette Moore, and
worst of all, the state-ordered execution of Fred Hampton and
mark Clark in 1969. Chicago police formed a "select group" but
his assassination was demonstrated a conspiracy between local
law enforcement and the FBI. The cops claimed, of course, that
they were involved in “shootout.” A bald-faced lie: the
physical evidence definitively established that the raiders
fired nearly 100 shots at the Panthers while they were sleeping,
while only one shot could be linked to a Panther weapon. Because
ballistics.
After the raid the Minister of Defense for the Black Panther
Party, Bobby Rush, declared that J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI
were responsible. But there was no hard proof. The first
documentation that supported Rush’s claim came in 1971 when
activists broke into an FBI office in Media, PA, and liberated a
trove of FBI documents. These outlined the FBI’s COINTELPRO
program and its focus in the 1960s on the Black liberation
movement and its leaders. As noted above, Hoover directed all of
the Bureau’s offices to “disrupt, misdirect, and otherwise
neutralize” African American organizations and leaders including
the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the Student
Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, the Nation of Islam, Dr.
Martin Luther King Jr., Stokely Carmichael and H. Rap Brown.
You know the rest. Thus the wages of "revolution" here in this
capitalist paradise.
[/quote]
Exactly correct! [img
width=50]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202709.png[/img]<br
/>
#Post#: 10019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: June 23, 2018, 4:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Surly1 link=topic=11222.msg156433#msg156433
date=1529761132]
[quote author=jdwheeler42 link=topic=11222.msg156431#msg156431
date=1529759622]
[quote author=RE link=topic=11222.msg156406#msg156406
date=1529696085]
The issue here is that "if you are not part of the solution, you
are part of the problem". As long as you maintain the position
the "Capitalism has some good points, it was just corrupted by a
few Evil Men at the top", you are part of the problem. This is
the group of people who now try to make a distinction between
"capitalism" and "corporatism". Trying to throw whitewash over a
really bad system which has impoverished billions for the profit
of 1%. It's not the "few bad apples" that make Capitalism bad,
the system itself is rotten to the core.
Will Socialism fix all the ills of resource depletion and
population overshoot we have now? Of course not, but it would
provide a more equitable distribution of wealth during the spin
down. All the wealth of the top 10% should be stripped and used
to fund the rebuilding of public infrastructure. All excess
housing besides the dwelling a person actually lives in should
be converted to housing for the Homeless. All excess vehicles
besides the one the person needs for daily tasks should be
converted to a fleet for pbulicly available rental cars at
affordable prices. All wages should come within 1 Standard
Deviation of the mean, in our current economy around $70K
household income. Essentially this means nobody over $150K,
nobody under $35K. Medical care should be public and supported
by taxation on profits and excess income above the $150K
threshhold.
Most industries should be converted to Worker Cooperatives, run
by the workers. The main conduits in particular, Energy, Food,
Housing, Medicine, Communications and Transportation. Managers
should be selected by the workers, not by the share holders in a
corporation. Banking and Money Creation should be done by
Goobermint, not by a private cartel of International Banksters.
Many other changes are necessary of course, but this would be a
good start towards managing the spin down we have ahead here.
Capitalism and its Apologists are the Enemy, they gotta go.
[/quote]
There is one thing that virtually everyone is missing... that
"golden age" of American capitalism, the 1950s and 1960s, the
one when America was "great"? Who owned the vast majority of
corporate stocks back then? Pension funds. So, indirectly, the
corporations, in being run for the shareholder's benefits, were
being run for for the worker's benefit, when they retired, on
their defined benefit plan. But then, in the 1970s, the switch
was made to defined contribution plans, and participation made
optional, and ownership of corporations dwindled away from the
workers.
[/quote]
Excellent, excellent point. The switch from defined benefit to
defined contribution plans is a foundation stone of building a
precariat, and impoverishing retirees.
[/quote]
True.
#Post#: 10020--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: June 23, 2018, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Message to Eddie, who agrees I am a "good man" man as long as I
don't call him out on his erroneous view of history, at which
point he shows his coarse lack of compassion for me, an aged and
infirm fellow American, by going partial, and then FULL Ad
Hominem:
[center]
HTML http://i.imgur.com/WZv0w.png[/center]
[center]🕵️ ;D[/center]
This entire discussion began when YOU claimed that Communism
wasn't a negative "buzzword" before 1947. While it is true that
the expression, "negative buzzword", did not even exist in the
English language back then ;D, I jumped because Anti-Communist
propaganda and skullduggery dates to the turn of the 20th
Century and before.
I showed you evidence that you were wrong about Communism not
being a negative "buzzword" before 1947.
Also, I claimed that your view that the 1930's was a "friendly"
period towards Communism was also wrong.
That got your Texas pride filled drawers in a bunch and you went
on the attack, starting with trying to frame me as a "touchy",
"Shrill", etc. you get the idea (SEE: attack the messenger
fallacious debating technique).
Let us assume for the moment that my attitude towards Capitalism
is as pedestrianly uneducated as my "simplistic irrationally
positive" view of Communism/Socialism/Anarchism.
How did you put it? I think this thoroughly demeaning quote of
yours pretty much covers it (I know, after this post you will
Texas double down on your insults by claiming that I ain't seen
nuttin' yet ;)):
[quote]I really don't find anything in this long rant that I
didn't know, at least in general terms...or anything in your
broader assessment that I even disagree with that much. But like
all your posts on this subject, it's the product of a very
narrow view, and it's the equivalent of a five minute book
report on an epic novel. It's very much the Readers Digest
condensed version for rabid socialists. There's a whole lot left
out.[/quote]
The above quote is revealing. You do NOT, generally ;),
DISAGREE with my historical "rant", yet you are silent as death
about the FACT that you previously erroneously claimed that
Communism wasn't a negative "buzzword" before 1947.
Now, either you DID know that and you didn't want to talk about
pre-1947 persecution of Communists, or you DIDN'T know about it.
You cannot have it both ways. But, you are doing your best to do
exactly that. ;D
As Eddie likes to say, "You are not going to get away with that
attempt to question Eddie's vast knowledge and Eddie is not done
by a Texas long shot" [img
width=60]
HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9HT4xZyDmh4/TOHhxzA0wLI/AAAAAAAAEUk/oeHDS2cfxWQ/s200/Smiley_Angel_Wings_Halo.jpg[/img][img<br
/>width=60]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418201112.png[/img],<br
/>RIGHT?
So then, rather than admit your error, you procede to undermine
the post that you (see your quote above) didn't seem to have
issues with, by relegating it to the level of a five minute
overly simplistic book report.
I wan't trying to right a comprehensive history, Tex. I was, as
you KNOW, challenging your erroneous view that Communism wasn't
a negative "buzzword" before 1947 (see the title of the post,
please!).
OF COURSE there is a whole lot left out. And, it is clear that
what was "left in" was, from your POV, suitable only for "rabid"
Socialists.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-220216203149.gif
I guess you consider Surly, a man with three times the
historically accurate knowledge of American History that you and
I have, PUT TOGETHER, a "rabid" Soclialist. He is a man of
integrity and respect. You were attacking him as well as me. NO,
Eddie, I am NOT "putting words in your mouth! You made that post
after Surly praised my post as an accurate summary of the
history. Try as you may to twist Surly's respect for my
knowledge of history, nobody who is objective here is going to
buy it, Tex.
YOU
HTML http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/Smileys/dd1/cussing.gif<br
/>are the one going on a rampage of irrational insults and
demeaning posts, trying to put words in MY mouth, making silly,
childish, foolish, immature, shrill and thoroughly hateful broad
statements about my accross the board "bullshit".
And, YEAH, I DO KNOW YOU! Unless there are TWO Eddies posting
here where one Eddie, the mild mannered reporter from the Daily
Planet who supports many Socialist programs in the US Government
for the poor and disadvantaged, is the principled brother of his
evil, uncaring twin who thinks the poor in America are just a
bunch of lazy greedy riff raff waiting for the Loto to solve
their economic problems. I certainly DO read and interpret
correctly your point of view in regard to what you CARE about
and what you DON'T CARE about.
The issues may be complex, but there is no justification for
simultaneously holding two opposing views.
As to the complexity of this issue of Communism versus
Capitalism, yeah, it's VERY complex. I don't know WHO TF you are
to think you are the only one that has come to that enlightened
erudite conclusion, but the body of work in your posts,
especially when you are in a good mood, evidences that you
generally DO NOT DO NUANCE unless you are challenging somebody
else's POV. Then you go into all sorts of, "not being sure of
this or that" in regard to what the other poster stated,
continually casting doubt on the validity of the post you are
challenging.
However, when someone challenges YOUR overly simplistic
acceptance of Capitalism as the "best system" despite it being a
"mixed bag", the Texas Longhorn horns come out. What's good for
Goose is SUPPOSED TO BE good for the Gander, Tex! Holster your
guns and start thinking with your mind instead of your pride!
But let us assume for the moment that, as you have just
repeatedly abused your Admin privilege to label me as such, I am
just some "old crank/ass hole/rabid Socialist".
The fact remains that the following graphic (see upper right
hand corner) has a DATE on it that proves your claims that
"Communism wasn't a negative "buzzword" before 1947" AND that
the 1930's was a "friendly" period for Communists in the USA
are both incorrect.
[center][img
width=640]
HTML http://cahsredscare.weebly.com/uploads/5/3/0/5/53051531/9905909.jpg?1433179376[/img][/center]
[img
width=140]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-191017143841.jpeg[/img]<br
/>I am not the one speading inaccurate Historical narratives her
e,
Tex.
YOU made a BROAD, OVERY SIMPLISTIC, HISTORICALLY INACCURATE
STATEMENT when you claimed Communism wasn't a negative
"buzzword" before 1947. So, for you to claim I am the one being
overly simplistic in my subsequent posts is hypocritical in the
extreme.
No matter how you try to spin it, Capitalism is morally
bankrupt. As RE said, in so many words, if you cannot see that,
you are wrong.
Go ahead Eddie, "fire up the drones". That's an old expression I
heard often in the FAA, based on the exact same empathy deficit
disordered "sense of humor". Back then it was from some "funny"
Southern boys who thought it was great fun to say, "Fire up the
Ovens" when discussing Jewish businesses.
Now, don't say I am calling you anti-Jew, I am certainly not
doing that. I am NOT putting "words in your mouth".
What I am doing is making it crystal clear to you that your
casual offhand coarse jokes and peculiar sense of humor offends
all peace loving people, of whom you claim to be one.
If you wish to be given the benefit of the doubt about your
allegedly objective views on Capitalism and Socialism, stop with
the jokes about Capitalist murder and mayhem for Empire. Those
coarse sarcastic jokes of yours are as funny as basket full of
dead babies.
Yes, I am painfully aware of the fact that you don't care what I
think. It appears, from the number of views I get, that you are
in the minority in that respect. Also, you may wish to revise
your post where you joined into the positive recognition of my
contributions here after over a million views.
You need to be consistent if you want people to take you
seriously. Now, if you don't care what anybody thinks, then, by
all means, have a ball by continuing your Dr. Jekell and Mr.
Hyde routine.
As for me, I will continue reading your posts when you are
discussing medicine, technology and many other issues you are
knowlegeable about and worthy to be listened to. Your biases on
political issues and history don't interfere with your technical
kowledge base.
However, though I will continue to vigorously disagree with your
thoroughly biased view of American History, I will avoid
discussing such with you because, quite frankly, you and I will
never find common ground there.
#Post#: 10021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: June 23, 2018, 7:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Agent Graves link=topic=11222.msg156424#msg156424
date=1529724826]
[quote author=agelbert link=topic=11222.msg156392#msg156392
date=1529688986]
[quote author=Agent Graves link=topic=11222.msg156374#msg156374
date=1529651582]
Its wrong to say Anarchists support socialism, just not soviet
style. Capitalists are actually more supportive of Socialism
than Anarchists. Anarchists do not want a govt at all, so they
definitely don't want a govt to tax them to provide social
services. Democratic Socialism actually depends on Capitalism.
If they dont have capitalism to tax to provide healthcare,
education and social security, it can only be done through
communism, for a while. Theres a reason China didnt go down with
the Soviet Union and Cuba is doing better without Castro calling
the shots, pun intended. Pointing this out doesn't give me an
affinity with Mitch Romny either.
[/quote]
Sir, you are splitting Socialist hairs. That part about
Anarchists not agreeing to Soviet style Communism, which
Anarchists NOW, AT PRESENT, label as "State Capitalism", is not
relevant to Anarchist total solidarity with the Socialst
movement in the USA, even before the 20th Century began. Had you
watched the Columbia University video in my post, the common
ground between Anarchists and Socialists, due to the brutal,
dangerous and deadly working conditions in the USA when the 20th
Century began, would have been made clear to you.
Hoover was out to GIT the Anarchists BECAUSE they recognized,
like the Communists/Socialists, the moral bankruptcy of
Capitalism.
The attitude of Capitalists towards ANY economic sytem based on
Liberty and Justice for ALL has always been negative, to put it
mildly.
Your posts usually concentrate on the negative track record of
Socialist/Communist governments while studiously ignoring the
massive record of human rights abuse by Capitalist governments,
especially our US Fascist Paradise Government. That is a
sophistic debating technique. Yes, it is clever but it is
fallacious. [img
width=30]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113183729.png[/img]
I suggest you try to be more even handed in your comparison of
the two systems (yes, there are basically ONLY TWO systems in
discussion here). All human run systems are flawed and it is
easy to cherry pick the negative aspects of any one of them.
Nevertheless, it is incorrect to claim that Capitalism has the
moral high ground over all things Socialist. The exact reverse
is true. [img
width=50]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202709.png[/img]<br
/>
The two comments in the following graphic provide Prima Facie
evidence that Capitalists=War Loving, Greed Inspired, Conscience
Free Predators are the sworn enemies of all things Socialist AND
that Capitalism is morally bankrupt.
[center] [img
width=640]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200618131341.png[/img][/center]
Sorry Agelbert, but if communism is the point being debated, I
am not required to compare it to capitalism in every particular
as that is a much larger undertaking and would leave the
critical points i wished to make lost. I had hoped that "I dont
believe in using money at all", should suffice to excuse me from
that onerous task, but did suspect that an either with us or
against us attitude would ignore all that. The main point re
communism I made was the death toll. 100m in the 20th Century,
that puts it in first place ahead of Christianity in 2nd and
Islam in 3rd by my calculation.
Its ridiculous to say that Socialism is pacifism because Marx
SAID you only need to wait for capitalism to destroy itself.
They didn't wait, they violently overthrew the monarchies and
killed everyone as an ongoing process. Then communism ended up
dying on its own, not capitalism. I have said the ongoing death
toll is required, because communists never make everyone equal
as promised, so need to keep killing anyone who mentions this or
even might mention it.
Ill watch the vid now as I had planned last night, but couldnt
keep awake after getting home after dark as usual. Overtime pays
well, but money puts most people in a gold barred prison, either
of the mind through materialism, or just practical survival.
Either way, the pre-occupation and associated agitation is
debasement of human nature. I believe native peoples figured
this out already over 100k years. The concept of "mine" is
foreign to them. If you tell a fijian you like his shirt, he
will give it to you and you must take it. If you try using
something like a musical instrument or weapon "belonging" to a
Maori and are better with it than they are, they give it to you.
I learned this when i picked up a pair of those chrome chinese
balls that are meant to be spun around in your palm. Even when I
said its only easy for me because my glove size is 2XL so an
unfair advantage, they were very serious in insisting I take the
balls. That relates directly to my point before about capitalism
or any FINANCIAL system, that the most crude measure of a mans
worth being money is the most important. Obviously for the
native people the value is in the ability insteadand the ability
benefits everyone. In fact the great Aboriginal boxer, Lionel
Rose, made a joke that "blackfelllas are the original
communists" when all his winning money was distributed to
everyone else.
There's no reason the same principle can't be applied today if
the overall culture, corrupted by the use of money, were
different. There would not be endless growth, expansion,
critical GDP, because there are industries where workers need
money all year round to survive, then if they have excess that
creates new industries whose workers also need work all year
round, including even arms dealers in a vicious cycle. All
things could be produced as needed. If an individuals worth
without money is measured in their ability, and that ability
benefits everyone, nobody will object to being asked by someone
else for resources such as crude oil or iron ore. Uranium might
get asked some questions. The scenes in movies where American
Indian chiefs have given long consideration to what gift can
match some piece of technology they do not have, such as a
rifle, shows the principle. The one asking for the resource
feels diminished until they can return the compliment, such as
shipping back some finished goods when needed. Call this real
anarchy or socialism, because with money involved there is only
the real world results and the back and forth blame game, when
there is no black and white between socialism and capitalism.
They are the same system, with a distinction of degrees not
difference.[/quote][/quote]
You aren't required to compare the two systems even handedly,
but I insist that is the only way to rationally compare them. We
will have to agree to disagree on that.
And no, it is not "ridiculous" to claim Communism/Socialism is a
pacifist ideology. As I said before, the application in practice
may not be pacifist, but the ideology is. Capitalist ideology,
on the other hand, considers war another tool of routine
national politics.
On the other hand, it really IS ridiculous to claim Capitalism
is "more pacifist" that Socialism/Communism. Yeah, there was
blood spilled by all groups. So? After the Russian Revolution,
WTF did you expect the Russians to think when they were being
attacked from all sides by various covert and overt Capitalist
methods to strangle their economy? In that death count you
ascribe to Communism/Socialism, are yoy including the deliberate
attempts to starve Russia by Capitalist countries? Of course
NOT! How convenient is that, eh?
And while we are on the subject of Russia, let's talk about all
those millions that died from Russian Communism, shall we?
Russian Communism, for anyone that understands Capitalist
Corporate structure, PERFECTLY MIRRORS a monopoly, over
EVERYTHING, Capitalist Corporation. That is why the Anarchists
call it "State Capitalism".
Premier = CEO
Politburo = Board of Directors
"Communist" Party = Stock Holders
Russian Igor and Sofia vodka sixpack = employees
Communism, MY ASS!
The ideology was just Socialist lipstick on Capitalist pig.
Now you can jump in (I will studiously avoid answering any
spurious bullshit thown in here by the gun tottin' Texan who
manages to look in a mirror every day without flinching even
though he claims he doesn't suffer fools easily) and say that
IF what I say is true, then WHY did the USA (and other
Capitalist countries) try to destroy Russia by any means
possible? I mean, weren't they all a bunch of fascist crooks
fighing over world domination, as all good Capitalist ideologues
are?
NOPE.
Socialism, even the fake kind the USSR practiced, was still an
ideological threat to Capitalism. Any threat to Capitalism MUST
BE ATTACKED.
Your claim that what Marx said about Capitalism self-destructing
was basically happy talk no person living in the real world of
rough and tumble dog eat dog took seriously is more applicable
to those who push "democracy=peace" in the name of Capitalism
than in regard to Socialism.
But, again, you do not want to line up the two systems side by
side, so you point at all the monarchs overthrown and so on, as
if the overthrow of monarchs was something that discredits any
claim to pacifism by Socialist ideology.
There is a vacuum in every discussion I encounter on this
subject about the 24/7 paranoia that is absolutely CENTRAL to
Capitalism. That paranoia fuels much of the murder and mayhem in
this world. Do you want to go there? NO, you don't.
I'll tell you why that subject is routinely disparaged as
conspiracy tin foil stuff, though massive paranoia is routinely,
and spuriously, ascribed to the "dysfunctional" Socialst
Governments.
Capitalism is pitched as a system where everybody competes in a
democratic fashion. If people really did that, they would not be
routinely spying on their competitor or/and trying to sabotage
the competitor's business in order to get the edge on the other
business and eventually bankrupt it.
You KNOW that is how Capitalism works in practice. Now how in
God's good Earth people feel justified in making the TOTALLY
ERRONEOUS claim that a Government run by Capitalist True
Beleivers is not going be composed of the worst kind of paranoid
bastards constantly attacking by any means available any real or
imagined threat to their monopoly exploitation gravy train, is
NOT a mystery to me.
They DON'T want people to know that, so they propagandize the
public to claim the Socialists are the ones guilty of doing what
is SINE QUA NON for Capitalist ideology. It's all part of the
morally bankrupt PROFIT MOTIVE.
The USA got into WWI to make money for Capitalists, PERIOD. How
many of those deaths do YOU blame Capitalism for? ZIP!
After WWI, if France, England and the USA had treated Germany,
another Capitalist country, fairly, there would not have BEEN a
NAZI Germany. But the demand to rake Germany over the coals for
PROFIT so angered the Germans that they helped the rabid Hitler
gang come to power.
How many of those Germans who starved to death during the Weimar
Republic are in your count of deaths caused by Capitalism? ZIP!
Even worse, the USA ended up going into WWII because OUR
CAPITALISTS built up those NAZI bastards. How many of the
MILLIONS of people killed by the NAZIs do you blame Capitalism
for? ZIP!
The indictment of Capitalism is, as if the above history wasn't
enough, multiplied by the FACT that, despite the USA OWING
RUSSIA BIG TIME for the defeat of NAZI Germany, the Capitalists,
true to form, weren't having any of that "Socialist disease"
business. The post WWII crowd, in the USA in particular, saw
massive profits in MAINTAINING A WAR ECONOMY. They needed an
enemy. So, they invented one. That's how we got the MIC that is
eating this planet alive for CAPITALIST profit.
During all this period, the Russians were struggling to survive
economically BECAUSE of trade barriers hither and yon by their
"competitors" (i.e. other countries with the Capitalist system,
but without the socialist lipstick). While all the evil stuff by
Lenin and Stalin is well publicized, and used repeatedly in
every debate about Communism versus Capitalism, the MASSIVE
advances in all forms of technology in Russia from 1905 on,
where they went from a nearly totally agrarian society to an
industrial powerhouse, WHICH DEFEATED THE NAZIs, is always sort
of left out of the discussion. The USA became an industrial
powerhouse gradually from around 1840 on up to our massive war
machine in 1940. That is about 100 years. The Russians did that
MUCH Faster.
Count the years. That State Capitalist Country (i.e. the USSR)
exploited their people ruthlessly for what Lenin and Stalin
claimed was their own good. I am not convinced of that. Their
blah, blah, blah about Socialist this and Socialist that,
despite it being mostly happy talk lipstick, was like waving a
red flag (pun intented ;D) at the Capitalist BULL on Wall
Street.
Get this, pal! WE did everything we could to destroy Russia
until we needed them. We WANTED the NAZIs to crush them! When
the NAZIs were eating our lunch, then we became TOKEN MR. Nice
Guy with Russia. Is that part of your historical narrative? If
it isn't, you have a flawed view of most of the 20th Century's
history.
All that said, there are so many different definitions for
Communism, as well as Capitalism, that it is an unreal rabbit
whole to go down. So, I look at the historical cause and effect
of systems that had the name.
Claiming that socialism and capitalism are the same system is
incorrect. Regardless of the varying definitions, one is based
on a hierarchcal unequal non-egalitarian social structure
(Cappitlism) and the other on an egalitarian social structure
(Socialism).
I will agree that, if the people are of good will, just about
any system can work fairly well. It all depends on whether
morality is integral to the system or not. I maintain that
morality is anathema to Capitalism.
You said:
[quote]money puts most people in a gold barred prison, either of
the mind through materialism, or just practical survival. Either
way, the pre-occupation and associated agitation is debasement
of human nature. I believe native peoples figured this out
already over 100k years. [/quote]
Agreed. The problem we have today is that the overwhelming
majority of humans now have too much of a Nietzche style
Territorial Imperative, so to speak.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183337.bmp
#Post#: 10622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: August 14, 2018, 11:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[center]The Thom Hartmann Program (Full Show) - 8/14/18
[/center]
[center]
HTML https://youtu.be/EAnvJR-tezc[/center]
You've found the place where The Thom Hartmann Program is
streamed live Monday-Friday,
Agelbert NOTE: In this show Thom discusses this excellent book
filled with irrefutable historical truth:
[center][img
width=340]
HTML https://pics.me.me/the-true-story-of-the-white-nation-settlers-the-mythology-27976993.png[/img][/center]
[center][font=times new roman]Settlers: The Mythology of the
White Proletariat[/font] by J. Sakai[/center]
[center][img
width=90]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418200416.png[/img]<br
/>[/center]
The authoritative attack on the idea that the American working
class is primarily white, with Black, Asian and Indian labour
being little more than special interest groups. This book
presents US history from a working class, revolutionary and
non-white perspective.
Paperback, 176 pages
Published 1989 by Morningstar Pres
HTML https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3184732-settlers
[center][img
width=640]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200618131341.png[/img][/center]
#Post#: 10698--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: September 3, 2018, 4:49 pm
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[center]The near-sinking of the Mayflower and the first settler
murderer[/center]
SNIPPET:
Some folks have an idealized vision of those people who first
came to the New World on the Mayflower, and we tend to think of
them as the devout sort who spent the journey alternately
praying and being kind to their neighbors. That definitely
wasn't the case for all of them. Let's talk about John
Billington [img
width=30]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205137.gif[/img]<br
/>and his family
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif.
First off, his sons [img
width=20]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205808.gif[/img]<br
/>[img
width=20]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205808.gif[/img]<br
/>were kind of jerks. According to Mental Floss, the Billingtons
were fleeing to the New World to escape some serious debts he'd
run up in England, and thanks to the Billington kids, the ship
almost didn't make it. At one point, one of the boys decided it
was a brilliant idea to play with dad's gun and fire it below
decks in a cabin full of people and barrels of gunpowder.
Once they landed, it became clear where they'd learned their
manners from. John Billington not only refused the mandatory bit
of military service but started spouting anti-establishment
propaganda while plotting to overthrow the new colony's leaders.
For whatever reason, he was allowed to continue his hate-talk,
and it wasn't until 1630 he got into an argument with a new
settler and shot him. As you do. The man, John Newcomen, died
from infection and Billington had the dubious honor of being
hanged as the first settler murderer.
The revenge of Hannah Duston
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://img.grunge.com/img/gallery/messed-up-things-that-happened-during-colonial-times/the-revenge-of-hannah-duston-1516914055.jpg[/img][/center]
[center] Junius Brutus Stearns, US Public Domain[/center]
We'll tell the whole story here and let you make your own
decisions about how heroic Hannah Duston was because 99%
Invisible isn't sure. Duston lived in Haverhill, Massachusetts
in 1697, and she had just given birth to a daughter when her
little settlement was attacked by a group of Abenaki. Duston,
her baby, and maid Mary Neff were taken and marched north.
Historic Ipswich adds a horrifying but important detail: When
the baby slowed them down, she was smashed against a tree and
killed.
Everyone can agree no mother should ever have to go through
something like this. It's no wonder Duston had some serious
rage, and when the raiding party and their captives stopped for
an overnight rest in New Hampshire, she got her revenge. Duston,
Neff, and a boy named Samuel killed the entire group as they
slept. Knowing no one would believe them without proof, they
scalped them, too.
That included six children. Duston made it back home, and went
on to tell her tale to the minister Cotton Mather. He ensured it
was recorded for history, and it's been memorialized in weird
ways. There's a nursing home named after her, bobbleheads in her
likeness, and there's a statue to her in Boscawen, New
Hampshire. Yes, her statue is holding scalps. Discuss.
Full accurate historical article: [img
width=40]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818184310-1635923.gif[/img]<br
/>
HTML https://www.grunge.com/106746/messed-things-happened-colonial-times/sl/the-near-sinking-of-the-mayflower-and-the-first-settler-murderer
#Post#: 10771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: September 24, 2018, 4:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[center]CAN YOU HANDLE THE TRUTH? [img
width=70]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202709.png[/img]<br
/> [/center]
If you cannot, then do not watch this video. EVERYTHING Webster
Tarpley says about various events in American History
(including, but not limited to, heinous events you may have
never heard of) is 100% ACCURATE.
If you CAN handle the truth, teach your children about it. It's
time 👀 to stop pretending U.S. historical reality is the
apple pie disneyworld version.
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBNWBHTR5v4dt5qEcmN9QqXFFN-zBQwiIXMYwnC_xahdMGU8jb[/img][/center]
[center]Webster Tarpley on Who Killed Kennedy[/center]
| Nov 24, 2013 | 74,238 views | by ulaghchi
[center]
HTML https://youtu.be/CPJKoaRXRoU[/center]
#Post#: 10784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: September 26, 2018, 7:51 pm
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[center]Paul Manafort [img
width=30]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817135149.gif[/img]<br
/>, Roger Stone 😈, and Me[/center]
By Tom Lewis | September 3, 2018 | Politics
SNIPPET:
I always blamed the nastification of the Republican Party
largely on Lee Atwater, who later surfaced as a Reagan adviser,
and who spent 1980 showing us how to do the new Republican
fandango — getting a Congress-critter elected by calling his
opponent a liberal, a communist, a (white) member of the NAACP,
and a past recipient of electroshock therapy, which Atwater
described as being hooked up to jumper cables. Sounds normal
today, but it sure didn’t in 1980.
I heard about Atwater, of course, but what I did not know until
recently was that also in 1980, a new consulting firm was
founded in Washington to institutionalize the new pit-bull
politics. The firm was called Black, Manafort and Stone, and it
soon became renowned among Washington insiders for combining in
one firm lobbying and political consulting, performed with a
take-no-prisoners, scorched-earth, amoral style. They lobbied
for a long list of the world’s nastiest dictators and companies
(including Big Tobacco), and managed campaigns for some of the
nation’s nastiest politicians. Lee Atwater soon joined Roger
Stone and Paul Manafort as a senior partner of the firm.
The work of these savages drove me from the Republican Party. It
was they, for example, who ...
Must read full article: [img
width=50]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418200416.png[/img]<br
/>
HTML http://www.dailyimpact.net/2018/09/03/paul-manafort-roger-stone-and-me/
#Post#: 10803--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: September 29, 2018, 4:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[center][img
width=640]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-281216181536.jpeg[/img][/center]
[quote]Please note due to a complaint that I did not properly
attribute this NBC article, I do so here. No harm intended. I
felt this story should be shared as soon and as widely as
possible and I apologize to NBC for apparently not attributing
the story properly to them, although the heading above the story
clearly (I thought) attributes the story to NBC. I also
apologize to KOS for apparently exceeding the length of quoted
text, and shall take this into consideration with any further
diary.
This article is shared to you from NBC News at the following
link: www.nbcnews.com/[/quote]...
[center]David Brock on NBC:[/center]
“I used to know Brett Kavanaugh pretty well. And, when I think
of Brett now, in the midst of his hearings for a lifetime
appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court, all I can think of is the
old "Aesop's Fables" adage: "A man is known by the company he
keeps." And that's why I want to tell any senator who cares
about our democracy: Vote no. Twenty years ago, when I was a
conservative movement stalwart, I got to know Brett Kavanaugh
both professionally and personally. Brett actually makes a cameo
appearance in my memoir of my time in the GOP, "Blinded By The
Right." I describe him at a party full of zealous young
conservatives gathered to watch President Bill Clinton's 1998
State of the Union address — just weeks after the story of his
affair with a White House intern had broken. When the TV camera
panned to Hillary Clinton, I saw Brett — at the time a key
lieutenant of Ken Starr, the independent counsel investigating
various Clinton scandals — mouth the word "b i t c h."
But there's a lot more to know about Kavanaugh than just his
Pavlovian response to Hillary's image. Brett and I were part of
a close circle of cold, cynical and ambitious hard-right
operatives being groomed by GOP elders for much bigger roles in
politics, government and media. And it’s those controversial
associations that should give members of the Senate and the
American public serious pause.
Call it Kavanaugh's [img
width=20]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817135149.gif[/img]<br
/>cabal
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif:<br
/>There was his colleague on the Starr investigation, Alex Azar,
now the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Mark Paoletta is
now chief counsel to Vice President Mike Pence; House
anti-Clinton gumshoe Barbara Comstock is now a Republican member
of Congress. Future Fox News personalities Laura Ingraham and
Tucker Carlson were there with Ann Coulter, now a best-selling
author, and internet provocateur Matt Drudge.
At one time or another, each of them partied at my Georgetown
townhouse amid much booze and a thick air of
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418193910.gif<br
/>cigar smoke. In a rough division of labor, Kavanaugh played t
he
role of lawyer — one of the sharp young minds recruited by the
Federalist Society to infiltrate the federal judiciary with true
believers. Through that network, Kavanaugh [img
width=30]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205808.gif[/img]<br
/>was mentored by D.C. Appeals Court Judge Laurence Silberman [i
mg
width=30]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205137.gif[/img],<br
/>known among his colleagues for planting leaks in the press for
partisan advantage.
When, as I came to know, Kavanaugh [img
width=20]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png[/img]<br
/>took on the role of designated leaker to the press of sensitiv
e
information from Starr's operation, we all laughed that Larry
had taught him well. (Of course, that sort of political
opportunism by a prosecutor is at best unethical, if not
illegal.)
Another compatriot was George Conway (now Kellyanne's husband),
who led a secretive group of right-wing lawyers — we called them
"the elves" 😈 👹 — who worked behind the scenes
directing the litigation team of Paula Jones, who had sued
Clinton for sexual harassment. I knew then that information was
flowing quietly from the Jones team via Conway to Starr's office
— and also that Conway's go-to man was none other than Brett
Kavanaugh.
That critical flow of inside information allowed Starr, in
effect, to set a perjury trap for Clinton, laying the foundation
for a crazed national political crisis and an unjust impeachment
over a consensual affair.
But the cabal's godfather was Ted Olson [img
width=40]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013200859.png[/img],<br
/>the then-future solicitor general for George W. Bush 🦖
and now a sainted figure of the GOP establishment (and of some
liberals for his role in legalizing same-sex marriage). Olson
had a largely hidden role as a consigliere to the "Arkansas
Project" — a multi-million dollar dirt-digging operation on the
Clintons, funded by the eccentric right-wing billionaire Richard
Mellon Scaife and run through The American Spectator magazine,
where I worked at the time.
Both Ted and Brett had what one could only be called an
unhealthy obsession with the Clintons — especially Hillary.
While Ted was pushing through the Arkansas Project conspiracy
theories claiming that Clinton White House lawyer and Hillary
friend Vincent Foster was murdered (he committed suicide), Brett
was costing taxpayers millions by peddling the same garbage at
Starr's office.
A detailed analysis of Kavanaugh's own notes from the Starr
Investigation reveals he was cherry-picking random bits of
information from the Starr investigation — as well as the
multiple previous investigations — attempting vainly to
legitimize wild right-wing conspiracies. For years he chased
down each one of them without regard to the emotional cost to
Foster’s family and friends, or even common decency.
Kavanaugh was not a dispassionate finder of fact but rather an
engineer of a political smear campaign. And after decades of
that, he expects people to believe he's changed his stripes.
Like millions of Americans this week, I tuned into Kavanaugh's
hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee with great
interest. In his opening statement and subsequent testimony,
Kavanaugh presented himself as a "neutral and impartial arbiter"
of the law. Judges, he said, were not players but akin to
umpires — objectively calling balls and strikes. Again and
again, he stressed his "independence" from partisan political
influences.
But I don't need to see any documents to tell you who Kavanaugh
is — because I've known him for years. And I'll leave it to all
the lawyers to parse Kavanaugh's views on everything from
privacy rights to gun rights.
But I can promise you that any pretense of simply being a fair
arbiter of the constitutionality of any policy regardless of
politics is simply a pretense. He made up his mind nearly a
generation ago — and, if he's confirmed, he'll have nearly two
generations to impose it upon the rest of us."
HTML https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/9/28/1799871/-MUST-READ-David-Brock-on-Brett-Kavanaugh
[center][img
width=340]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-301216142007.png[/img][/center]
#Post#: 10880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Key Historical Events ...THAT YOU MAY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF
By: AGelbert Date: October 13, 2018, 8:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[center][img
width=340]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/styles/renewablerevolution/files/796_10-24-11-the-one-percent.gif[/img][/center]
[center]Oligarchy
😈👹💵🎩🍌🏴‍
29421;☠️:
The Cancer of Human History[/center]
[center][img
width=400]
HTML http://i2.wp.com/www.theguide.hr/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/DIOKLECIAN.jpg?fit=900%2C500[/img][/center]
Diocletian separated and enlarged the empire’s civil and
military services and reorganized the empire’s provincial
divisions, establishing the largest and most bureaucratic
government in the history of the empire.
HTML http://www.theguide.hr/diocletian-roman-emperor-born-in-roman-province-dalmatia/<br
/>
Webster Tarpley exposes the persistent Oligarchic Organized Evil
behind the fact that the structure of the modern United Nations
is nearly IDENTICAL to Diocletian's structure for the Roman
Empire nearly 2000 years ago. 👀 😱
[center]
HTML https://youtu.be/hzyq4BXTkhQ[/center]
W | Apr 10, 2013 | 73,297 views | by OaklandLYM
14 July 1994. Former member Webster Tarpley gives a class on
2000 years of rule by Oligarchy, both its headquarters, which
has existed within the empires of ...
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