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       #Post#: 13396--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Creeping Police State
       By: AGelbert Date: August 25, 2019, 7:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center][img
       width=350]
  HTML https://www.cartoonmovement.com/depot/cartoons/2019/08/05/source_of_inspiration__antonio__rodrguez.jpeg[/img][img<br
       />width=270]
  HTML https://www.cartoonmovement.com/depot/cartoons/2019/08/05/give_me_your_tired_your_poor_your_huddled_masses_year__glen_le_lievre.jpeg[/img][/center]
       [quote]     Hate : source of inspiration
       Give me your tired... [/quote]
       #Post#: 13503--------------------------------------------------
       The 5 Biggest &#128520; Corporate Lies About Unions
       By: AGelbert Date: September 5, 2019, 12:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]Robert Reich: The 5 Biggest &#128520; Corporate Lies
       About Unions[/center]
       61,767 views
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/UwwymqpS45c[/center]
       Robert Reich
       Published on Sep 2, 2019
       Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich debunks the biggest myths
       about unions spread by corporations.
       [center]Watch More: Why Unions Matter to You
       &#9658;&#9658;[/center]
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/402m57yFjTM[/center]
       Category News & Politics
       #Post#: 13505--------------------------------------------------
       How to Prevent Future &#129408; Trumps
       By: AGelbert Date: September 5, 2019, 12:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]How to Prevent Future&#129408; Trumps
       &#9658;&#9658;[/center]
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/F_OxSZp1m_4[/center]
       For more videos like these, be sure to subscribe. If you'd like
       to support our work, you can do so here:
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       Category News & Politics
       #Post#: 13513--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Creeping Police State
       By: AGelbert Date: September 5, 2019, 8:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-260718150100.jpeg[/center]
       Are Donald &#129408; Trump's Appointed &#128013; Judges
       Protecting Him?
       1,815 views
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/gxDdresHGLI[/center]
       Thom Hartmann Program
       Published on Sep 4, 2019
       A federal Judge has hidden Trump's taxes from the one person who
       has the right to view them and release them
       Donald &#129408;Trump appointed this &#128013; Judge to the
       Federal Court...
       &#10145;&#65039;Please Subscribe to Our Channel:
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/user/thomhart...
       
       SUPPORT THE PROGRAM
       &#9658; Join us on Patreon:
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       />where you can also watch a re-run of the three-hour program at
       any time
       [center][img
       width=640]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/styles/renewablerevolution/files/804_3-190218175943.png[/img][/center]
       #Post#: 13534--------------------------------------------------
       Calling BS on the 'Bad Apples' Theory of Police Misconduct &#128
       544;
       By: AGelbert Date: September 7, 2019, 3:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]Calling BS on the 'Bad Apples' Theory of Police
       Misconduct &#128544;[/center]
       10,313 views
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/O0Im3X_6Gk0[/center]
       The Real News Network
       Premiered Sep 5, 2019
       On this episode of The Police Accountability Report, we tell a
       harrowing tale of a firsthand experience with drug dealing cops
       reveals the long and troubling history of police selling
       narcotics, and calls into question the idea that police
       corruption is limited to a few bad actors.
       Subscribe to our page and support our work at
  HTML https://therealnews.com/donate.
       Category News & Politics
       #Post#: 13541--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Creeping Police State
       By: AGelbert Date: September 7, 2019, 7:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]Could [img
       width=60]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-301216165623.jpeg[/img]<br
       />Trump be Crueler Than We Thought?[/center]
       8,014 views
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/xOQrp-kefFo[/center]
       Thom Hartmann Program
       Published on Sep 6, 2019
       Donald Trump may be crueler than we had all thought but the
       people around the world are better than we ever believed.
       Thom breaks down two stories that showcase both the greatest
       extremes of human cruelty as brought to us by Donald Trump and
       the best of us, as seen in every day people.
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       SUPPORT THE PROGRAM
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       />where you can also watch a re-run of the three-hour program at
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       ABOUT THE PROGRAM
       The Thom Hartmann Program is the leading progressive political
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       Category News & Politics
       #Post#: 13557--------------------------------------------------
       The Biggest Danger of the Trump Administration Revealed
       By: AGelbert Date: September 9, 2019, 6:37 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]The Biggest [img
       width=90]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif[/img]<br
       />Danger of the Trump [img
       width=25]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205137.gif[/img]<br
       />[img
       width=20]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205808.gif[/img]<br
       />Administration Revealed[/center]
       1,922 views
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/NTUcvDy625U[/center]
       Thom Hartmann Program
       Published on Sep 9, 2019
       What is the worse thing Donald Trump and his administration have
       left us?
       Thom Hartmann reveals the most damaging thing Donald Trump has
       done, one that could turn our democracy into a banana republic!
       &#10145;&#65039;Please Subscribe to Our Channel:
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       [center][img
       width=300]
  HTML https://78.media.tumblr.com/f763599d30eaeb44b0c2eee92a26a8c5/tumblr_palizer1YQ1tsf68ao1_400.gif[/img][/center]
       #Post#: 13578--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Creeping Police State
       By: AGelbert Date: September 12, 2019, 7:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]Are Homeless People the Next Victims of [img
       width=60]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-301216165623.jpeg[/img]<br
       />Trump?[/center]
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/FJgUil1P6S8[/center]
       2,529 views•Published on Sep 11, 2019
       Thom Hartmann Program
       171K subscribers
       #Post#: 13586--------------------------------------------------
       &#129421; Police Use Ignorance of the Law as a Defense, But You 
       Can’t &#128544;
       By: AGelbert Date: September 13, 2019, 1:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center][img
       width=640]
  HTML https://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/2/3-130919155324.png[/img][/center]
       [center]&#129421; Police Use Ignorance of the Law as a Defense
       [img
       width=70]
  HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9HT4xZyDmh4/TOHhxzA0wLI/AAAAAAAAEUk/oeHDS2cfxWQ/s200/Smiley_Angel_Wings_Halo.jpg[/img],<br
       />But You Can’t [img
       width=40]
  HTML https://media.tenor.com/images/aefc857b17366c1a4e85eefb2d502b5f/tenor.gif[/img][/center]
       September 12, 2019
       On this episode we take a critical look at the obstacles to
       holding police accountable, and expose how both politicians and
       judges defend an institution that is often at odds with
       communities.
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/xnofT3WJhsU[/center]
       [center][font=times new roman]Story Transcript[/font][/center]
       TAYA GRAHAM: Hello. My name is Taya Graham and welcome to the
       Police Accountability Report.
       As we said before, the show has a single purpose: holding the
       politically powerful institution of policing accountable. To do
       so, we dig deep and examine not just police misconduct, but the
       politics that makes it possible. And I want you watching to know
       that if you have evidence of police misconduct or brutality,
       please share it with us and we might be able to investigate.
       Please reach out to us either in the comments or message us at
       the Police Accountability Report on Facebook or @Eyesonpolice on
       Twitter. And of course, you can message me directly
       @Tayasbaltimore on Twitter or Facebook.
       Now, today we’re going to actually expand on a topic we
       discussed last week with my co-host Stephen Janis. It’s the Bad
       Apples Theory. It’s the idea that police corruption is limited
       to a few bad actors and not emblematic of the problems with the
       system itself. The Bad Apples Theory, as we pointed out, fails
       to take into account aspects of policing that gave individual
       cops almost catastrophic powers. And that bad apples not only
       ruin hundreds if not thousands of lives, but grow and thrive in
       a veritable orchard of corruption, namely our criminal justice
       system.
       But this week, there were dual developments that make this point
       even more resonate. Allow us to show, not tell you, why the Bad
       Apples Theory is simply not just false, but destructive. Just to
       make a finer point on the consequences of so-called bad apples,
       we’ll talk about a new development in the Gun Trace Task Force
       scandal. Now this is just a reminder, the GTTF was a group of
       eight Baltimore police officers, who robbed residents, dealt
       drugs, and stole over time. So Stephen, this week in the
       Baltimore State’s Attorney, they made a request. What was this
       request?
       STEPHEN JANIS: Well, they asked for over 800 cases to be thrown
       out that were tied to some members of the Gun Trace Task Force.
       Cases have been tainted by false testimony, or planting drugs,
       or whatever. It’s a massive number of cases when you think about
       it— 800. It touches thousands of lives, so it was a pretty
       stunning request that there were that many cases, and there’s
       still this incredible fallout from the scandal involving just
       eight officers.
       TAYA GRAHAM: And even as prosecutors tried to clean up this
       mess, there was a new set of indictments in the case. In fact,
       the latest set of charges illustrate just how ill-conceived the
       Bad Apples Theory is. But that in fact, the GTTF had help— and
       lots of it. So Stephen, can you talk about the type of help and
       support they received?
       STEPHEN JANIS: Yeah. In fact, just as this was happening,
       another officer was indicted who had helped one of the
       ringleaders, Sargent Wayne Jenkins of the GTTF, plant a BB gun
       on a person he ran over. Because he was trying to criminalize
       him or just – he got angry and he just ran him over. So after he
       runs him over, he gets scared, and he calls Sergeant Gladstone,
       who shows up with a BB gun to plant on the guy, so they can say
       the guy had a gun and Sergeant Wayne Jenkins is in the clear. It
       turns out, another officer who was in that car lied to a Federal
       Grand Jury, and he has since been indicted for lying, but what
       that tells you is that there was nobody – everyone knew what was
       going on.
       TAYA GRAHAM: Right.
       STEPHEN JANIS: Number one, there were lots of people that knew
       what was going on, knew they were planting BB guns on people to
       criminalize them, and they didn’t say anything. And not only did
       they not say anything, but they lied to a Federal Grand Jury
       about it, and so this is just the latest fallout from showing
       that Sergeant Wayne Jenkins had a support system around him. He
       had people that would help him, and they’re willing to lie to a
       Federal Grand Jury for him. Even after he’d been convicted and
       charged with incredible crimes, these people are still lying for
       him.
       TAYA GRAHAM: But with all these revelations of systemic
       corruption and hundreds if not thousands of lives destroyed, and
       the brazen abetting of police malfeasance by other cops, one
       would think there would be some sort of questioning about the
       unfettered power of police. That in a democracy, a community
       roiled by an ever burgeoning scandal would push back and hold
       police accountable, but in fact, the opposite has happened. Not
       only did the new revelations fail to elicit comment from city
       and state officials alike, but those same elected
       representatives actually doubled down with a big new dose of law
       enforcement. That’s right. They decided to give more power and
       more money to police. Stephen, how did the police department end
       up with more money after it was proven that they had bad actors?
       STEPHEN JANIS: Well, they did one of those things that we, as a
       press, continually fall for. They got a bunch of cops together
       who were already working for the police, and gave them a whole
       new name, and spun it out and called it a strike force. So this
       new thing, that they already had all these cops, they’re already
       working with the police department, they try it out at a press
       conference, “We’re going to create a strike force.” But it
       wasn’t just reorganizing cops and creating alliances with
       federal officers and local. They also like came up with a ton of
       money— $17 million to rent 75,000 square feet in West Baltimore,
       so that they could have a headquarters for this new strike
       force, which is going to be empowered to do what? Militarize
       policing. What was the GTTF doing? Militarize policing. So it’s
       like – it’s just trotting out the same old thing in new clothes.
       Look, “Hey, don’t look here. It’s the same thing,” but the thing
       is that no one said, “That really hasn’t been working out, has
       it?” So that’s something we wanted to look at.
       TAYA GRAHAM: But to delve deeper into showing what this means,
       we decided to take a look at one of the neighborhoods that will
       be the target of this new strike force. It’s an area that was
       the former home of our colleague, Darrell Lewis. Last week, he
       discussed his encounter with a group of drug-dealing cops named
       Antonio Murray and William King. But this week, he took us on a
       walking tour of what had been left in the wake of this
       aggressive policing, and why he thinks it will only make things
       worse.
       STEPHEN JANIS: The reason we wanted to come out here is because
       we had that discussion last week about the bad apples, and now
       we heard they’re going to be some sort of strike force at the
       police department. But I wanted to come back to your old
       neighborhood because has anything really changed here after
       30-40 years of this intense drug war? When you take us around
       here, what do you see? What’s changed?
       DARYL LEWIS: The only thing I see changed is more poverty. More
       hardship, more sadness, less hope. I haven’t seen any change.
       Number one, if you have no job to go to in the morning when you
       get up and come outside, only thing you have is what you see out
       here. So you say to yourself, “How do I start my day? I’m not
       able to go to work because I don’t have a job. So now I’m forced
       to feed my family, feed myself, so now I have to do what I have
       to do.
       STEPHEN JANIS: So let me ask you a question, when you were in
       that position, did you feel like there was any form of
       government or anything that was out there to help you to say,
       “Hey, Daryl, there’s another way?” Or was it just trapped in
       isolation? I mean, was there ever a point where you thought,
       other than the police, was there anything you saw that could
       have helped you?
       DARYL LEWIS: No, nothing. I felt hopeless to be perfectly honest
       with you, Steve. I felt hopeless.
       TAYA GRAHAM: But we didn’t stop there. We also visited an expert
       on the consequences of unlimited police powers. His name is A.
       Dwight Pettit, he’s the Civil Rights Attorney and Real News
       Board Member, who’s represented victims in hundreds of brutality
       cases. And the story he tell us is even more disturbing because
       it goes to the core idea of the show: accountability. That’s
       because Pettit is in the middle of a battle with city officials
       who’ve made a stunning argument: that the city which gave
       badges, guns, and arrest powers to out of control cops, are not
       responsible for their actions; that same government, which armed
       and paid them, owes nothing to the victims of their criminal
       behavior.
       A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Their argument, in my opinion, is just so
       ridiculous. That the only thing that you can raise is the fact
       that what you’ve just raised, that he’s a police officer, he’s
       clothed with authority, he’s acting under color of law. Citizens
       are responding to him as a police officer. There’s no such thing
       as outside of the scope of employment. And how do you say it’s
       coming out now? How do you say in the cases of the Gun Trace
       Task Force, who operated with impunity, that the supervisors and
       the authorities did not know that all this was going on? How do
       you raise that defense?
       TAYA GRAHAM: Stephen, what does Mr. Pettit’s struggle tell us
       about the relationship between politicians and police?
       STEPHEN JANIS: It just shows us how the idea of policing can
       corrupt a government to the point where because you have people
       with badges and guns, exercising this power over the
       impoverished part of the city, and become part of a larger
       narrative of a city beset with crime, which is really beset with
       poverty and failing schools, but become that cover for
       politicians who don’t know how to fix complex problems, can
       infiltrate the thinking of a city government where they were
       literally saying, “We’re not responsible for these people.”
       But you armed them. You gave them badges. You gave them guns.
       You gave them the color of law, to shoot, kill, arrest, detain,
       take away the constitutional rights, and you’re saying you’re
       not responsible just because they misbehaved? What did you think
       would happen? I mean, these cops were accused of stealing
       overtime. These cops were accused of robbing residents. These
       things were going on. As the previous case pointed out, there
       were other cops helping them who knew what was happening.
       TAYA GRAHAM: Exactly.
       STEPHEN JANIS: And you’re still saying you’re not responsible.
       It’s a freaking paramilitary organization, and it’s run by the
       mayor. So I think it just shows how difficult it’s going to be—
       it is— in this country to hold police accountable in any way,
       shape, or form.
       TAYA GRAHAM: And Mr. Pettit also addresses a central theme of
       the show. Later in the interview, he talks about how the courts
       and the politicians literally conspire to hold policing
       harmless.
       STEPHEN JANIS: Police keep getting away with it. Why can’t they
       be held accountable, for real? Why do you think?
       A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Because the courts have protected them, the
       legislative bodies have protected them, and so then we have a
       president that comes in and tells the police, “You do what you
       want to do. I got your back.” Then this reinforces this and
       politically reinforces it throughout the spectrum, from the top
       all the way down.
       TAYA GRAHAM: So Stephen, Mr. Pettit also told us something
       really shocking about how police are defending themselves in
       court.
       STEPHEN JANIS: Well, so basically, in civil suits and even cases
       of wrongful death, police are making an argument that they were
       ignorant of the law, and therefore they can’t be held harmless,
       they can’t be held liable, or be held to even account criminally
       because he didn’t know it.
       TAYA GRAHAM: Okay, wait. Let me just stop you there for one
       second.
       STEPHEN JANIS: Yeah.
       TAYA GRAHAM: You’re telling me that law enforcement officers are
       pleading ignorance of the law to get out of any sort of
       responsibility for their actions?
       STEPHEN JANIS: Yeah. He actually told us in cases that he has
       tried or that cases he has sued or litigated, the police have
       said, “I didn’t know the law.” And police have been held
       harmless, and the Supreme Court has upheld that. Let’s just take
       a listen to what he had to say.
       STEPHEN JANIS: Just to repeat, the police officer is saying,
       their defense is, “I didn’t know the law.”
       A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Right. “I didn’t know the law,” and therefore,
       a derivative of what they call immunity— immunity from
       prosecution, immunity from civil liability— because of their
       ignorance of the law. This defense is being used and has gone
       all the way up to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court has
       upheld that as good defense. So it’s the courts, it’s the
       legislators, and it’s the politicians in terms of big cities and
       so forth, and small cities where all this police – is being
       tolerated.
       STEPHEN JANIS: But, the citizens can’t use it. We can’t say we
       were ignorant. [crosstalk]
       A. DWIGHT PETTIT: No, for us, it’s no defense whatsoever, but
       for the police—
       STEPHEN JANIS: If you had a client who stole a car and said, “I
       didn’t know it was illegal.”
       A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Right, you’d go to jail.
       TAYA GRAHAM: So let me ask a fairly pointed question. What sort
       of institution can not only fail at its core mission, but
       flagrantly wreak havoc on a community, and yet still garner
       unwavering support from politicians, who supposedly represent
       the people that they harmed? What makes policing so singular and
       so above reproach, that even when it destroys hundreds of lives,
       the institution itself does not change? Maybe there’s a larger
       lesson here, an example of the precarious balance between
       maintaining a healthy democracy and empowering people to enforce
       arbitrary and often destructive laws.
       If we can’t hold the people who have life and death power over
       us to account, what does that say about the civic health of this
       country? If a single person, empowered by the state can
       literally destroy hundreds of lives and the government that gave
       him that power says it’s not responsible, then are we really
       living in a government by and for the people? These are
       questions that must be answered in the wake of what we reported
       today, and it’s incumbent upon us as journalists to keep asking
       these critical questions, and we hope you who are watching will
       continue to push even further.
       I want to thank my co-host, Stephen Janis. And remember, if you
       have evidence of police misconduct or brutality, please share it
       with us and we might be able to investigate. Please reach out to
       us either in the comments or message us at the Police
       Accountability Report on Facebook or @Eyesonpolice on Twitter.
       And of course, you can message me directly @Tayasbaltimore on
       Twitter or Facebook. And of course, please like and subscribe. I
       will be there in the comments section.
       I’m your host Taya Graham. Thank you for joining me on the
       Police Accountability Report.
  HTML https://therealnews.com/stories/police-use-ignorance-of-the-law-as-a-defense-but-you-cant
       #Post#: 13591--------------------------------------------------
       Supreme Court’s Asylum Ruling Is Incomprehensible {unless you ar
       e a Racist Fascist!)
       By: AGelbert Date: September 13, 2019, 4:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Agelbert COMMENT: It's NOT incomprehensible; it's the CREEPING
       POLICE STATE ROUTINE FASCIST CRUELTY, STUPID!
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-210818163124-16672489.gif
       [center]Supreme [img
       width=50]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif[/img]<br
       />Court’s Asylum Ruling Is Incomprehensible[/center]
       September 12, 2019
       The US Supreme Court temporarily approved President Trump's new
       asylum rule, which makes it almost impossible for anyone from
       Central America to gain asylum in the US. The court's support
       puts thousands of lives in grave danger and violates US law and
       international law
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/nF6brTkh-B0[/center]
       [center]Story Transcript[/center]
       GREG WILPERT: Welcome to The Real News Network. I’m Greg
       Wilpert.
       In a 7-2 ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court allowed the Trump
       administration to prevent most Central American migrants from
       seeking asylum in the United States. This is actually a
       temporary ruling. The Supreme Court was responding to an
       emergency appeal from the Trump administration to set aside
       decisions that California judges had made which blocked the
       President’s new asylum rule. This new asylum rule, which Trump
       issued last July, would allow asylum applications only from
       immigrants who have been denied asylum in other countries or
       have been victims of “severe human trafficking.”
       Immediately following the Supreme Court’s announcement, Trump
       Tweeted: “BIG United States Supreme Court WIN for the Border on
       Asylum!” Supreme Court Justices Sonia Sotomayor and Ruth Bader
       Ginsburg were the only two dissenters. Sotomayor stated that the
       new asylum rule “topples decades of settled asylum practices and
       affects some of the most vulnerable people in the Western
       Hemisphere—without affording the public a chance to weigh in.”
       Joining me now to discuss the implications of this court
       decision are Laura Carlsen and Matt Cameron. Laura is the
       director of the Americas Program of the Center for International
       Policy in Mexico City and a frequent contributor to The Real
       News Network. And Matt is an immigration attorney specializing
       in asylum and deportation defense and is the managing partner of
       Cameron Micheroni and Silva. Laura joins us from Mexico City and
       Matt from Boston. Thanks for being here today.
       LAURA CARLSEN: Thanks.
       MATT CAMERON: Thank you, Greg.
       GREG WILPERT: Matt, I want to start with you. What’s at stake
       here? A final court decision has not been made, as I mentioned,
       but there are many who are saying that the right to asylum is in
       danger. What do you say? And where’s this right to asylum
       enshrined in the U.S. Constitution anyway?
       MATT CAMERON: What is at stake is the future of asylum itself.
       As you said, this is a temporary decision. But politically, this
       could be permanent; legally, this could be permanent. Certainly
       the court is letting us know where they’re going. That’s what
       they do when they grant a stay. Even with this current
       composition, I think the court may very well uphold the ban and
       it may be very difficult to reverse at that point. Asylum itself
       is not in the Constitution, but it’s enshrined in international
       treaty and it’s enshrined in our own domestic law. And we have
       an obligation to offer it, most especially–I’d say–in this case,
       where we have a strong moral obligation to Central America.
       GREG WILPERT: Just say a little bit more about that. Why is that
       particularly the case with Central America?
       MATT CAMERON: Greg, I think if I burned your house down, I’d
       have an obligation to help you rebuild your house or at least
       give you a place to stay in the meantime. And that’s what we’re
       looking at. After more than a century of meddling, and most
       especially in the last few decades– foreign, military, economic,
       social policy, all of it–we have brought these countries to
       where they are today in many real ways. I think if this were
       Iraq or Afghanistan instead of Central America, Americans might
       understand a little better. But we have such short memories.
       GREG WILPERT: I think that’s a very good point. Laura, you
       recently visited Tijuana for us, where you spoke to people who
       are trying to apply for asylum in the United States. I just
       wanted to run a clip briefly of what Trump said about the asylum
       applicants and refugees. And he said this at rally a few months
       ago.
       DONALD TRUMP: You have people coming out. You know, they’re all
       met by the lawyers. And they come out, and they’re met by the
       lawyers. And they say, “Say the following phrase: I am very
       afraid for my life. I am afraid for my life.” OK. And then I
       look at the guy. He looks like he just got out of the ring. He’s
       a heavyweight champion of the world and he’s afraid for his
       life. It’s a big fat con job, folks. It’s a big fat con job.
       GREG WILPERT: So Laura, what did you see in Tijuana? And what is
       your response to Trump’s comments?
       LAURA CARLSEN: I… It almost brings me to tears because of the
       distance between the disdain, the hatred, the racism that’s
       behind it, that you can hear in his voice when he talks about
       people he’s never even met, whose stories he doesn’t know. I
       have talked to those people and I know that they are among the
       most desperate on Earth. They’re families, they’re men, they’re
       women, they’re children, and they’ve just left situations that
       are indeed life-threatening. Sometimes they’ve had 24 hours to
       leave everything in their homes because of threats from gangs or
       from repressive governments. They’ve set out on a journey that
       goes through Mexico, obviously, to the United States because
       they don’t have the funds and they can’t get the visas to take
       any other route. That’s very, very dangerous. That implies a
       huge degree of uncertainty and a lot of sacrifices; a lot of
       crimes committed against them on the journey.
       You have cases like in El Salvador, an army soldier who was
       threatened by the gangs; a woman who rescued her brother from a
       safe house and the gangs gave her 24 hours to get out of town
       with her whole family; a taxi driver who’s being extorted by
       five different gangs, and if he ceases to pay even one of them,
       he’ll be dead the next day. These are the situations that
       they’re facing. The international law of asylum is protection.
       What it says is that human beings on this earth have a right to
       be safe no matter what the national borders are. If they’re
       fleeing persecution and they can make their case for fleeing
       persecution, they have an international right for a country to
       accept them. It says nothing about where they have to seek that.
       They have the right to seek asylum in the country where they
       feel safest.
       This rule that says that they cannot even request asylum in the
       United States–where many of them have families, by the way–and
       says that they have to request asylum in the first country
       considered by the Trump administration safe. And of course it’s
       ridiculous because you have Hondurans coming through Guatemala,
       and yet Guatemala is one of the primary sending countries
       because of the conditions there. There’s no sense to it and it’s
       extremely inhumane. It’s a cruel policy and it’s very, very
       disappointing that the court has made this decision which
       effectively makes this the policy on the border even as hundreds
       of thousands of people–or at least thousands, because we don’t
       want to exaggerate the numbers either–are coming up from these
       countries that, as Matt said, are in a state of almost total
       collapse.
       GREG WILPERT: As I mentioned in the introduction, the case is
       not over. But it will take a few months now until it winds its
       way through the courts again and presumably ends up again at the
       Supreme Court for a final decision. Matt, can you reconstruct a
       little bit for us what the arguments on the two sides are?
       particularly, what is the Trump administration saying in order
       to justify this denial of asylum, essentially? What is the
       response that you, as a lawyer, or other lawyers for the asylum
       seekers have?
       MATT CAMERON: First of all, to get a stay like this before any
       court on appeal, you have to show imminent harm. You have to
       show that there’s something that’s really going to happen if
       this isn’t granted. And honestly, it’s very hard for me.
       Usually, I can see the other side, but I do not see imminent
       harm to the U.S. government. I see imminent harm to thousands
       and thousands of people who will die. People will die during
       this period and possibly going forward permanently.
       That, to me, is where I see it. But essentially, the Trump
       administration says it has a right to impose this rule. On the
       other side, those of us who are more familiar with asylum
       law–I’m sorry to say–I think generally think that they don’t
       have that right because they’re essentially making this up.
       That’s what Justice Sotomayor said in her dissent, is that this
       is not really asylum law at all. This is just a completely new
       thing that they’ve made up. The lower court actually found this
       was arbitrary and capricious, and to get to that standard is not
       easy. That’s a difficult thing for a court to find. Sotomayor
       suggested that she agreed with that, and I think very, very
       rightly. I really don’t understand and I’m still in a state of
       shock, honestly, that the Supreme Court has allowed this to go.
       GREG WILPERT: How do you think it will play out once it returns,
       basically, to the Supreme Court? What’s surprising is that the
       two other liberal judges–or presumably liberal judges, that is,
       Breyer and Kagan–voted in favor along with the majority on this
       case. Is that an indication that that will happen again? What do
       you think?
       MATT CAMERON: It certainly is when you look at a stay.
       Obviously, they haven’t heard the full argument. We haven’t seen
       full oral argument briefing before them. Certainly their
       opinions could change. But what really concerns me is we didn’t
       actually get a decision in this case, which is a little unusual
       with a stay of this import. I think, honestly, we’re owed one.
       I’d really like to know where they were coming from and we never
       will, at least not until this gets a little further.
       GREG WILPERT: Laura, the people that you saw there… I mean, what
       do you think about how they are going to deal with this
       situation? You saw people who clearly were very frustrated that
       they had spent already many weeks at the border, weren’t allowed
       to enter the United States, and presumably were forced to
       return, perhaps even, to Central America or stay in Mexico. What
       does that mean for them?
       LAURA CARLSEN: As Matt said, we’re talking about deaths. We’re
       talking about deaths through deportation, through people who are
       forced to stay in dangerous situations in their countries. I
       also just got back from Honduras, and there’s demonstrations in
       the streets. The repression is killing people as well and the
       general rate of crime and collusion with a corrupt Narco
       government is making it impossible for people to live in their
       own neighborhoods.
       The people who get returned are at risk of death. The people who
       stay in the border cities in Mexico are at risk of death. Some
       of them are the most dangerous cities in the country. What it
       means for them, we have to sort it out a little bit because
       there’s one group that’s the group that’s already gone into the
       United States and been sent back to await their asylum hearings.
       Presumably, they can’t throw those people out of asylum hearings
       that they’re already a part of. They could eventually go through
       the hearing and deny them asylum, which is what they’ll probably
       do, but they can’t just cut off–according to this rule–cut off
       their process. Those are the remaining Mexico people.
       And then you have these safe third country people. And there’s
       something that should be said about this agreement, which is not
       an agreement, this rule that Trump made. Safe third country
       agreements exist in other parts of the world. We did a report on
       them. They’ve been challenged legally and repeatedly and,
       generally speaking, don’t hold up very well. But they’re
       different from what’s happening here in the sense that they are
       agreements. A developed country that for racist reasons or
       whatever reasons doesn’t want to take in its fair share of the
       world’s migrants–despite having contributed to the causes, which
       is very true–can say, “Okay, you, other country that they’re
       going through first, take these people. But we will contribute
       because we recognize the need for international protection and
       their right to international protection. We will contribute,
       usually financially, to the efforts to receive these people.”
       Here, we don’t even have that. We have nothing. We have, once
       again, a ruling by Donald Trump, who’s been chiseling away at
       asylum, who’s been using immigration as an electoral issue to
       mobilize a racist base with a white supremacist agenda. And
       Mexico, because of its economic dependence, is just saying,
       “Well, okay, can you do something maybe about stopping arms at
       the border?” That’s their big stand for national sovereignty on
       these issues.
       Who’s going to stand up for the migrants? That’s the big
       question now. The shelters are overwhelmed, the lawyers are
       overwhelmed. Every time they try to stop an illegal ruling like
       this, they get hit with another. And so it’s being tied up in
       the court and now this will be tied up again in the court. But
       in the meantime, by granting them the right–when we still don’t
       know the legality of the ruling, and it’s very likely not legal
       according to international law–by granting them the right to
       continue to do it, they’re killing people in the meantime.
       GREG WILPERT: Matt, finally, I just want to know… Part of the
       problem, of course, that many people who are watching this
       probably will face, is that the Supreme Court seems very far
       removed from people in terms of being able to influence, that
       you don’t elect any high court judges. What would you say can
       people do who are concerned about this issue? Is there anything
       that can be done that is from an ordinary citizen perspective?
       MATT CAMERON: Certainly. There are amazing organizations working
       on this right now. You can help them out; they’re pretty easy to
       find. And just continue to tell people this is catastrophic.
       This is really something that we as Americans, if we accept this
       now, there’s a very good chance that politically and legally,
       this will become the status quo. We just need to continue to
       tell each other that this is not normal, that this is not how it
       should be.
       I just very quickly want to look back to your question because
       I’m having a little trouble actually articulating the
       government’s argument. I think I just want to mention that the
       government’s argument really is that migrants should be seeking
       asylum in the first country that they reach, which in the case
       of Central America… Really, if you’re coming from another
       Central American country, what you’re saying is that the fire is
       safer than the frying pan. Because that’s what you’re doing if
       you’re going from somewhere like El Salvador to Guatemala or the
       other way around.
       There are right now 10, as I understand it, asylum officers in
       Guatemala, and that’s where they want to send these people. It’s
       a travesty. I think the safe third country agreement that Laura
       mentioned is illegal on both sides. I’m convinced of that, but
       this is even far and above beyond that. This is just another
       level of the war on asylum, just kicked up to another gear. It’s
       just been a really hard day, I think, for all of us who do this
       work.
       LAURA CARLSEN: Yeah. And I want to mention that if we… In terms
       of what people can do, look what happened when Trump imposed the
       Muslim ban. The airports filled up with people protesting. This
       is essentially a ban on all asylum refugee seekers from Central
       America; in fact, from all of Latin America, because almost
       everyone has to come up by land. They can’t get a plane ticket
       to the United States without first going through their hearing
       and getting a legal status there. It’s essentially a ban on all
       Latin American refugees, on all African refugees who are coming
       through Latin America–which is a considerable proportion–and on
       all Caribbean refugees, practically. It’s very, very major and
       people should be reacting much more strongly than what we’ve
       seen so far.
       GREG WILPERT: One last point that I also saw. Actually, I think
       it is quite interesting that the spokesperson for the union that
       represents asylum officers also came out very strongly against
       this ruling, saying that it’s clearly incompatible with the law.
       Even they are saying that this doesn’t make any sense.
       Unfortunately, we’re going to have to leave it there for now,
       but we’ll continue to cover the story as it develops. Thank you
       again, Laura Carlsen and Matt Cameron, for having joined us
       today.
       LAURA CARLSEN: Thank you, Greg.
       MATT CAMERON: Thank you, Greg.
       GREG WILPERT: And thank you for joining The Real News Network.
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