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#Post#: 10274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 7:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Surly1 link ---
>
> [quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg7760#msg7760
date=1347056923]
> Carrying capacity is a function of carbon footprint in humans
(unlike other non tool making species). The issue of resource
depletion is not relative to our physical biomass.
>
> //People will not give up their pickup trucks until Warren
Buffett gives up his jets and multiple houses. The fact that a
few of us have reduced our carbon footprint voluntarily as an
act of conscience does not mean that most aren't still Bernays
brainwashed.
> //The above statement is an excellent example of scientific
blinders in the service of raw wealth. The hypermobility alone
of these rich would skew their footprint up (lots of vehicles of
all sizes) if those engaged in this study had bothered to count
boats, cars, airplanes, etc.
> // Every addict can go cold turkey and the pushers will adjust
by giving the "drug" away really cheap until they hook a new set
of addicts. Focusing on the addicts while giving lip service to
the evils of the 1% to the point that the addicts are given a
40/60% (99% carbon footprint vs 1% carbon footprint)
responsibility ratio in biosphere degradation when it is more
like a 20/80% ratio is just plain wrong and doomed to failure.
Of course the 1% love this kind of "blame the victim" illogic.
>
--- End Quote ---
AG,
I don't often comment on your energy analysis posts because I
really don't have much to add. Just wanted to post this to tell
you how much I appreciate them. You have a wealth of information
and some keen analysis at the ready, as well as a good nose for
bullshit, as the above post demonstrates. This great stuff, Glad
you are here among us, licking the windows at the back of the
Diner...
Why not turn the above into a blog article. Meanwhile, I'm
posting this on the FB page.
As Willem Dafoe said to William Peterson in "To Live and Die in
LA," "I like your work."
[/quote]
--- Quote from: WHD link ---
>
> [quote]The fact that these oil energy loving F U C K S that
call themselves scientists can believe it’s wrong to run your
car in a garage but a mark of “advanced civilization” to do it
outside is proof that they are SERIOUSLY math challenged idiots.
The killer combination for mankind is a love of science and a
lack of consideration about its place in the world. Have a nice
day.
--- End Quote ---
AMEN! :exp-angel:
[/quote]
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> Surly1,
> Thank you. Since the post was a subset of the article, it is
technically part of the main article already published but I now
realize from your comment that the issue of biopshere human
population carrying capacity and carbon footprint is such a bone
of contention that I will have to taylor an article that focuses
exclusively on those areas. 👍
>
> WHD,
> Thanks. I posted a less fleshed out version of that article at
The Oil Drum and they were not happy campers about it, to put it
mildly.
>
> Here's the response thread there. It just makes me tired to
read how unwilling these people are to look their bias in the
eye.
>
> [quote]
> Richard Eis on September 4, 2012 - 9:51am
>
> Too long. Didn't read.
--- End Quote ---
It seems the twitter curse governs even issues of life and death
for the biosphere (see Chomsky on how concision truncates clear
thinking and favors propaganda).
--- Quote ---
> jokuhl on September 4, 2012 - 10:48am
>
> You seem to have useful ideas, but like Richard, I would ask
you not to put in a whole chapter or a book. It's considered
hogging the thread.
>
> The use of "BS" in the first sentence also quickly made you
seem fairly rude and ranting.. making it hard to take anything
afterward very seriously.. though as I said, I think some of the
ideas in there probably will be great to have discussions on..
just not great speeches or treatises, if you please.
>
> As Leanan says sometimes.. 'get your own blog if you want to
share that much stuff'. This is appropriately called a
discussion.
>
> Best,
> Bob
--- End Quote ---
This type of response masks a pedantic and dictatorial mindset.
His apparent appreciaition for my ideas is a device to appear
objective; his next comment (farther down towards the end)
makes that clear.
--- Quote ---
>
>
> TOD Community Moderator on September 4, 2012 - 11:13am
>
> Yes, please keep your posts a moderate length - we'll tolerate
longish ones if they're nicely formatted - i.e. use your return
to make clear paragraphs.
>
> Commenters are able to edit posts until someone replies to
them. If you'd like to start over and post a clearer and more
concise comment, I'd be happy to hide the old one.
>
> Best to all,
>
> Kate
>
> [edit - I returned to disguise profanity - we may have school
age kids reading - also added para returns]
--- End Quote ---
She's right. RE is always on my ass about my paragraphing
problems. I just slammed that in there in an attempt to gain
some readers here as per a request from RE. But again, this sort
of pedantry, no matter how polite, is dancing around the meat
and potatoes issues on energy that I addressed. Why didn't this
moderator go read my linked articles to see where I was coming
from? Pro-Oil bias. It's easier to attack the grammar than the
ideas. We have all dealt with people that, to avoid discussion,
correct your pronunciation (in the English language, many words
have two valid pronunciations, e.g. pralines, but people use
that to either locate where you grew up or correct you to win
argument brownie points and avoid issue discussion). School age
kids cuss more than adults do. Is she kidding? No, just being
pedantic. Leanan has already made clear to RE that she won't
post our articles there so I had to give it the old college try
to see if a few with two neurons still rubbing together
successfully would come over here.
agelbert on September 6, 2012 - 9:23pm
Very well. Let me discuss some facts in a profanity free manner.
The above article was admittedly long and not fully fleshed out.
I did so at the Doomstead Diner that posted the article today.
This is a very brief summary of the problems we face and I feel
are, at best, insufficiently addressed or ,at worst, ridiculed
in sites like this that display a bias towards petroleum
products:
CH4 + 2O2 ---> 2H2O + CO2
Burning hydrocarbons is trouble for planet Earth's biosphere.
The absorption of terrestrial radiation is dominated by
triatomic molecules – O3 in the UV, H2O, CO2 and others in the
IR because it so happens that triatomic molecules have
rotational and vibrational modes that can easily be excited by
radiation with wavelengths in the IR.The Earth radiates energy
away at the same rate as it is received from the Sun. The
Earth's emission temperature is 255K; that of the Sun, 6000K.
The outgoing terrestrial radiation peaks in the infrared; the
incoming solar radiation peaks at shorter wavelengths, in the
visible.
The emission of terrestrial radiation is a function of the
Earth's radiative temperature. Earth radiates in the IR band.
Therefore even a tiny addition of triatomic molecules such as
CO2 and H2O will result in a powerful positive feedback
mechanism. Burning hydrocarbons destabilizes Earth's radiative
equilibrium profile. It is irresponsible for the petroleum
industry to pretend otherwise.
Published EROI studies at The Oil Drum such (Hall) pretend the
application of science and mathematics to determine energy
return on energy invested. However, in thermodynamics, applying
the law of conservation of energy to determine enthalpy is only
half the picture. You must also compute entropic effects as
well. That is, you must take the energy density per mole and
determine how much WORK it can accomplish in the real world.
Hall and associates fail to do that. If they had done this for
ethanol vs gasoline, they would find that the higher octane
ethanol is a better fuel for the ICE (internal combustion
engine) than than gasoline. All you need to do to get equivalent
mileage per gallon or litre is to burn the ethanol in a high
compression engine. This was proven as far back as 1906 in
Edison Labs research funded by the US Navy (Google it!).
Furthermore, ethanol does not require a catalytic converter so
the entropy is decreased and overall energy output in the form
of mechanical WORK is increased. The rabbit hole on ethanol is
deep and goes back to Rockefeller gifting religious
fundamentalist organizations with millions of dollars to get
Prohibition passed. I don't believe it is any coincidence that
less than a year after Prohibition destroyed ethanol (it became
illegal, not just to drink, but to produce and use as fuel) as a
competitor to gasoline, the Tetra Ethyl Lead poison additive to
gasoline increased its octane rating to a level comparable with
ethanol. You know how tetra ethyl lead ended up being banned for
the horrible effects on humans and other life forms.
Petroleum energy's ultimate source is the sun, not an oil drum
or a well. Why then, is your site named "The Oil Drum" instead
of "The Sustainable Sun"? Why the "Drumbeat" campy title for an
energy discussion forum instead of the "PhotonBeat"? Because you
suffer from endowment bias. This is unscientific in a site that
claims they back up everything they say with science.
Politicized EROI formulas neglecting real world application
efficiencies and entropy in order to make petroleum products
look favorable is flawed science.
We address this issue in detail at the Doomstead Diner web site.
Our motto is "Save as many as you can". There is no censorship.
People that don't properly reference their ideas with
scientifically proven facts are not banned but are identified as
pushing opinions as facts. Anyone that questions facts, as those
I have just stated above, by claiming they are opinion with
pejorative remarks like "this is speculative and not real world"
must show some facts to back up their assertions besides
unethical debating tactics (e.g. my resume is bigger than
yours).
Learn what a proper formulation of the EROI formula should be
composed of free from propaganda, politics and the petroleum
profit motive.
Renewables, why they work and fossil and nuclear fuels never did
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/renewables/blasts-form-the-2012-to-2013-past-when-there-was-more-hope/msg10213/#msg10213
Carbon Footprint and how the 1% skew the per capita numbers in
the USA (Joe 6 pack uses much less energy than is claimed) is
discussed, among other subjects of interest to Oil Drum readers,
here:
Sexual Dimorphism, PowerStructures and Environmental
Consequences of Human Behaviors
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/renewables/blasts-form-the-2012-to-2013-past-when-there-was-more-hope/msg10227/#msg10227
Unlike most sites, the comments on these articles do not get
shelved or disappeared into dusty archives. The thread is
preserved and you can read through the whole thing. You can tear
the articles to pieces and use profanity if you wish to
accentuate your prose. As long as you don't conflate opinion
with facts and vice versa, you will be listened to. Come one,
come all and show us your debating skills.
--- Quote ---
> Richard Eis on September 7, 2012 - 5:07am
>
> Petroleum energy's ultimate source is the sun, not an oil drum
or a well. Why then, is your site named "The Oil Drum" instead
of "The Sustainable Sun"?
>
> Oil has not been sunlight for millions of years and went
through several different processes between then and now.
Endowment bias? Really?
>
> All you need to do to get equivalent mileage per gallon or
litre is to burn the ethanol in a high compression engine.
>
> Compressing a fuel doesn't change the fact that you still need
more of it than gasoline to run your engine (nearly 40% more
apparently). Considering that this fuel source is usually taken
from our food stocks, this is never going to be a "good"
solution regardless of how you play with the EROI.
--- End Quote ---
The poster finds it unreasonable for me to claim the blog
expresses pro-oil bias with its title because the sun produced
oil carbon sequestering (he doesn't seem to know that petroleum
deposit creation is a mechanism scientists have proven is a
temperature regulation biosphere mechanism) occurred millions of
years ago but appears quite comfortable with the totally
irrational mindset that burning something that took millions of
years to create in a space of 150 years or so is rational.
:BangHead:
Notice the incorrect statement about compressing fuel. This is
false. Fuel economy is identical. Changing the compression RATIO
of an ICE does not change the AMOUNT of fuel to achieve a given
amount of mechanical work. This is disngenuous bullshit. I
advocate that HALL and associates are the ones playing with the
EROI formula and the debater claims I am the one wanting to
"play" with it. Again, if they would bother to go to the
"behemoth" (see Ashvin and Ilargi) discussion of EROI in my
renewables article they would see the US Government references
that prove HALL is the one playing to keep oil looking better
than ethanol.
The "taking energy products from foodstuffs" tradoff is big oil
propaganda. I discuss that in a response to Mark_BC who brings
up the same, invalid, point. Corn ethanol was set up to fail. It
is one of the WORST biomass products that could have been chosen
for biofuels because it requires soil tilling, chemical
fertilizers and pesticides". It was wrongheaded from the start;
set up to fail. The US oil oligarchy in action.
--- Quote ---
> Nick on September 7, 2012 - 9:38am
>
> Compressing a fuel doesn't change the fact that you still need
more of it than gasoline to run your engine (nearly 40% more
apparently).
>
> Actually, it does. Raising compression ratios increases
efficiency. Audi has reduced the ethanol penalty to 12%.
--- End Quote ---
At last. One person dealing with thermodynamic truth and
objective scientific facts. I hope Nick makes it over. There is
actually an energy "penalty" from burning gasoline (catalytic
converters - poisonous exhaust fumes - global warming) but at
least Nick is thinking.
--- Quote ---
>
> Richard Eis on September 7, 2012 - 2:24pm
>
> 12% down from 40% is pretty good. What's the energy loss from
compressing the fuel though? That probably won't be a huge
factor but it would be a nice to know.
>
>
> Nick on September 7, 2012 - 3:22pm
>
> What's the energy loss from compressing the fuel though?
>
> Hard to tell - the compression happens during the engine
combustion cycle, so the energy output is a net figure.
--- End Quote ---
They need to read the linked articles but they are, apparantly,
two twittered to be throrough. Hell, just doing some Google
research on ethanol vs gasoline, enthalpy and mechanical work
from both would give them their answer (along with some easily
disprovable -no sources, just talk- pro-gasolene PR).
Now, good old BOB doesn't seem to like the direction the
"energy" discussion is going with the ethanol heresy so here
comes the petroleum calavary to the rescue of mendacity in the
service of oil (i.e. it's time to attack the mesenger in order
to discredit the argument!).
--- Quote ---
> Richard Eis on September 7, 2012 - 5:16am
>
> Petroleum energy's ultimate source is the sun, not an oil drum
or a well. Why then, is your site named "The Oil Drum" instead
of "The Sustainable Sun"?
> Oil has not been sunlight for millions of years and went
through several different processes between then and now.
Endowment bias? Really?
> All you need to do to get equivalent mileage per gallon or
litre is to burn the ethanol in a high compression engine.
> Compressing a fuel doesn't change the fact that you still need
more of it than gasoline to run your engine (nearly 40% more
apparently). Considering that this fuel source is usually taken
from our food stocks, this is never going to be a "good"
solution regardless of how you play with the EROI.
>
>
> jokuhl on September 7, 2012 - 11:32am
>
> Agelbert,
> Seeing that you're really here to push the Doomstead diner, is
it really necessary to toss in snyde remarks about the site that
is hosting this comment? You may have seen some recent threads
where many posters here have expressed their gratitude for
having a site which keeps high standards of both civility and
supported arguments. It's far from perfect, but it's very good
compared to anything else I've seen online.
>
> I may peek in to DD at some point, but even without profanity,
your tone upstages your points, and I see no reason amongst the
ideas you've presented for expecting to have a fruitful
discussion over there.
>
> After the initial responses asking for less than a chapter, it
might have been more useful to pick a single idea you want to
take on, such as EROEI, and let that issue go forward
conversationally. (unless it's really off-topic to the thread,
which we've now pretty much become..) But it doesn't seem like
that's what you're here for. It IS what I am here for.
>
> Bob
--- End Quote ---
I think I know what BOB is there for; it sure as hell is not an
objective discussion of energy, thermodynamics or EROI. His
deliberate respelling of EROI to EROEI (both acronyms are used
by wikipeda and Hall to mean the same thing) is more evidence of
pedantic pissantry. BOB LIKES the current EROI "formulation".
That's what BOB is all about. If he had bothered to read the
"Renewables, why they work and fossil and nuclear feils never
did", he would understand that the ENTIRE THRUST OF THE ARTICLE
was a detailed deconstruction of EROI formulation! You CANNOT do
that "conversationally" in a forum thread. He just does not want
to go there.
--- Quote ---
> BlueTwilight on September 7, 2012 - 8:47pm
>
> Written by agelbert:
> CH4 + 2O2 ---> 2H2O + CO2
> Burning hydrocarbons is trouble for planet Earth's biosphere.
>
> Burning large amounts of fossil hydrocarbons is trouble for
Earth's biosphere. Reverse the reaction:
>
> 2H2O + CO2 + energy ---> CH4 + 2O2
>
> The energy could come from sunlight. It is easier to store
methane than hydrogen.
--- End Quote ---
Another fellow with his thinking cap on. RE is right. There are
a few over there that aren't lost to big oil. What BlueTwilight
just did is define renewable energy from photosynthesis or some
other CO2 + H2O chemical process. I hope he comes over.
--- Quote ---
> Nick on September 7, 2012 - 9:48pm
>
> Are you thinking of utility-scale energy storage?
>
>
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_hydrogen_storage
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_hydrogen_storage
>
--- End Quote ---
Nick is thinking. I hope he comes over here to see that
decentralized, rather than utility scale renewable is the only
viable answer although utitlity scale does have a role in that
picture.
I wish I could say I am geting more optimistic. Im not. It was
all I could do to just get out of bed today. I just learned hose
FUC KING Russians have been dumping radioactive waste in the
arctic ocean for DECADES! Scientists at the cryosphere web site
are scratching their heads wondering why the ocean bordering
Siberia has such an unusually high temperature. Word is out that
there is a nuclear sub the Russians scuttled in the 80s (with
nuclear fuel in it) that may rupture now. Some say it is in
danger of exploding. I don't know but does it really matter?
Radionuclide contamination aside for a moment, this stuff puts
out unending HEAT. Man, we are SO ****.
--- Quote ---
> Evolution of sea surface temperatures in August
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> East Siberian and Chukchi seas on August 5, 2012. SSTs were as
much as 5 degrees Celsius (9 degrees Fahrenheit) above normal
along the coastal areas in those seas.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> Old ice continues to decline
--- End Quote ---
[move]CFS has left the human society "building"[/move]
HTML http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
HTML http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
[/quote]
#Post#: 10275--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RE link ---
>
> [quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg7821#msg7821
date=1347148769]
>
> [quote]jokuhl on September 4, 2012 - 10:48am
>
> You seem to have useful ideas, but like Richard, I would ask
you not to put in a whole chapter or a book. It's considered
hogging the thread.
>
> The use of "BS" in the first sentence also quickly made you
seem fairly rude and ranting.. making it hard to take anything
afterward very seriously.. though as I said, I think some of the
ideas in there probably will be great to have discussions on..
just not great speeches or treatises, if you please.
>
> As Leanan says sometimes.. 'get your own blog if you want to
share that much stuff'. This is appropriately called a
discussion.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
This is the kind of BS I simply cannot STAND, because it
OBVIOUSLY turns the Blog into a One Way Street.
Leanan can go ahead and drop on 20 Copy/Pastes in her Drumbeat
to total out 3000 words or more, but anybody who wants to
COMMENT on what she just dropped down has to keep it to 500
Words or less or be accused of "Hogging" the thread, using too
much "bandwidth" yadda yadda.
This is ridiculous because in reality nobody can "Hog"
essentially Unlimited Space. If people find your stuff too
LONG, they can Scroll over it in a couple of seconds. The
bandwidth argument is equally absurd for Text, the Complete
works of Shakespeare in text is only 5 megabytes, around the
same as a 30 second video. Even a 10,000 word article uses
negligible bandwidth.
What you get from this is the Blog equivalent of TV Soundbites.
You can't have a real debate about anything if everybody is
restricted to 3 or 4 paragraphs the MOST. The whole purpose is
to insure that what gets published on The Oil Drum is the
propaganda that Leanan wants to spin out.
Finally that "Get Your Own Blog" argument is worthless, because
with a Million Bloggers out there each writing their own
Propaganda Blog, nobody actually talks to each other. Will
Leanan ever show up on the Diner to debate me on anything? Of
course not, Hell Freezes Over before that happens. Similarly,
it is highly unlikely even IF the Futilist enlists some
"scientists" in a Critique of Mr. Wizard he would ever show up
here to debate on a level Playing Field. He might show up on
TOD where he knows the Group Think is basically with him and he
will be supported by the Mods as an "Expert", but he won't show
up here where he is just considered another Debater in the game,
and his "Credentials" as an Arch Druid and Ph.D. Historian don't
garner the "respect" he thinks he should get.
It is this sort of Nonsense that underpins the REASON I started
the Guerilla Internet Free Speech Project. The only way to
BREAK this is to have many Guerillas out there posting on these
websites and making it impossible to Censor EVERYBODY. Sadly
though, the number of people who are like AB and myself and who
will go out and CHALLENGE the Group Think on other Blogs and
Boards is remarkably small. Just about everybody claims they
believe in Free Speech, but few people will go out and actually
FIGHT for it.
Case in point, we have had a pretty large Influx of TOD members
here already, but so far as I can see not a single one has
confronted Leanan WRT these Policies on TOD. "Not my FIGHT, and
I don't wanna be BANNED also!"
It is NOT of course just Leanan here, though she is amongst the
worst of the Censor/Bloggers on the Net. Karl Denninger is
FAMOUS for Capricious Bans, at one point he did a Mass Genocide
of over 100 Commenters for the SIN of just MENTIONING 911 on
Ticker Forum. If you appeared to be a "Troofer" to Karl, you
got sent to the Great Beyond JUST for that. Ilargi on TAE is
not much better, he Swings His Dick around TAE all the time, and
we have at least 3 refugees from that here: Karpatok, Agelbert
and of course El Gallinazo who got creamed because of his Alien
Conspiracy articles and comments.
Anyhow, here on the Diner, Free Speech runs the show even more
than RE does. I have lost quite a few members because I won't
Violate Free Speech principles. I put this Principle up above
even some of my closest Friendships in cyberspace. SOMEBODY has
to stand up for Free Speech and allow ALL perspectives to be
heard, at whatever length the Author feels he needs to get his
Points across. See the Dirdy Birdy Chronicles to understand
this better.
I am happy to provide this Free Speech Zone on the Internet for
so long as I can, but it is not enough. To truly get the
MESSAGE out, we need MORE Guerillas willing to put it all on the
line for Free Speech on other Blogs and Forums. I can do
nothing more though than Lobby for the importance of this and
ecourage you to Stand Tall for the priniciple.
Meanwhile, until we have enough Guerillas who will fight this
battle, The Castle that Peter Built is the HOME for Free Speech
on the Internet. Manned by Surly the PEACENIK who will do
everything he can to bring CFS into an argument and keep the
Diners together; and manned by RE the FIGHTER who won't EVER let
any other Troll or Industry Shill screw up Diner Debates.
NOBODY messes with the Diners on my Watch, EVER. Go Trolling
with me, Pitch the Smoke here on the Diner, you will REGRET THE
DAY YOU WERE EVER BORN. Or at least the day you chose to be an
Internet Troll or Shill anyhow.
[center]Just a Sod Buster here with my Trusty Rifle. ;D "Pa!
He MEANS it!!!!"
[move]SPEAK FREE ON THE DOOMSTEAD DINER![/move]
RE
[/quote]
#Post#: 10276--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> [quote]HERBS IN THE KITCHEN
>
> Letitia L. Star is a healthy living writer who has written
more than 1,100 published articles, including many cover stories
for The Herb Companion, Mother Earth News (the Women's Health
issue), Natural Home & Garden, GRIT and other publications. She
specializes in writing about healthy eating, recipe development,
natural products, gardening, enviromental issues and green
living for magazines and online marketing communications. She
can be reached at lstarsave@gmail.com or (847) 869-3775
>
>
> My favorite—and most popular—article that I have written for
The Herb Companion is "4 Recipes for Quick Pickles," published
in the September 2009 issue, with a follow-up quick-pickling
blog posted in May 2010.
>
> I would like to offer one more original quick pickling recipe
showcasing garlic. You can make these pickles with cucumbers or
a plethora of other fresh vegetables plucked from your own
garden or farmers' market, including summer squash, carrots,
tomatoes, peppers, onions and more.
>
> My original, quick method takes only 10 to 20 minutes to
assemble. Unlike traditionally canning methods, no special
equipment is needed. Just use clean glass jars with lids. (This
is a great way to reuse old pickle, olive or salsa jars.)
Refrigerate and consume in about a week.
--- End Quote ---
[center]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-090718210805.png[/center]
[center]Pickle Jars[/center]
--- Quote ---
> Quick Herb Taste: Garlic, Lemon, Peppercorns & Bay Pickles
>
> If you love garlic, this quick pickle recipe is for you. I
prefer the strong, pungent taste of German or Russian garlics to
make these refreshingly tangy, peppery pickles. This recipe also
is a wonderful way get the most out of fresh lemons. Scrape out
any of the white pulp of used lemons and thinly slice the peel
into vertical strips. While black peppercorns are excellent,
also consider red or white peppercorns or multi-color peppercorn
mixes.
>
> • 1 (16-ounce) clean glass jar
> • 1 to 2 cups of sliced cucumbers
> • 2 to 4 fresh garlic cloves, crushed (more to taste)
> • 1 to 2 bay leaves
> • 3 to 4 sliced thinly-sliced lemon peels, preferably organic
> • 1/2 tablespoon freshly cracked peppercorns, or regular black
pepper
> • 1/2 tablespoon whole peppercorns
> • 1 tablespoon coarse kosher or sea salt
> • 1/3 cup cider vinegar
> • 1 tablespoon freshly squeezed lemon juice
>
> 1. Peel and slice cucumbers into 1/4 inch round slices. In the
clean jar, tightly pack cucumbers, garlic, lemon peels, cracked
peppercorns until 3/4 full.
>
> 2. Combine vinegar, salt, lemon juice, peppercorns and bay
leaves in a saucepan. Bring to a simmer and gently stir until
salt dissolves. Remove from heat.
>
> 3. Add 2/3 cup of cold water to this mixture and let cool.
Carefully remove bay leaves and add to jar. Pour cooled liquid
in jar to cover cucumbers, garlic, bay leaves and lemon peels.
Add more cold water if needed. Leave room at the top.
>
> 4. Refrigerate for about an hour until chilled. Your pickles
are now ready to eat. Keep refrigerated and consume in about a
week. (Don't store on shelves.)
>
> My Favorite Herb Suppliers
>
> I buy culinary herbs for recipes and more from these four
prized companies.
>
> + Mountain Rose Herbs
> + Frontier Natural Products Co-op
> + Monterey Bay Spice Company
> + San Francisco Herb & Natural Food Co.
>
>
> Read more:
HTML http://www.herbcompanion.com/herbs-in-the-kitchen/quick-pickling-garlic-peppercorn-bay-pickles.aspx#ixzz26EeuVIYh
>
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
#Post#: 10277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> [quote]Rethinking Herbal Medicine
>
> A phylogenetic study of traditional plant remedies could aid
drug development.
>
> By Beth Marie Mole | September 10, 2012
--- End Quote ---
[center]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-090718211515-14391924.png[/center]
--- Quote ---
> The medicinal New Zealand flax (Phormium sp.). Phormium
species are used traditionally by Māori people to treat a
wide range of conditions, including skin, respiratory and
gastro-intestinal problems. University of Warwick, United
Kingdom, Andrew Clarke
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> Many scientists raise a skeptical eyebrow to traditional
herbal treatments, but a new phylogenetic study suggests that
such remedies may hold promise—for both medicine and drug
development.
>
> In the study, researchers from the University of Reading in
the United Kingdom found that many medicinal plants used by
nearly 100 cultures on different continents are related. Because
these distant groups of people likely identified their plant
therapies independently, such herbal treatments may be legit,
the researchers argue, and the plants likely contain bioactive
compounds that scientist could exploit for new drug therapies.
>
> “People think there’s nothing new to be found,” said John
Beutler, a leading chemist at the National Cancer Institute’s
Center for Cancer Research, who was not involved in the study.
“But, that’s just not true. Wherever we look, we find new
stuff.” But critics still doubt whether researchers will be able
to sort effective traditional remedies from the bogus ones, and
whether pharmaceutical endeavors will follow.
>
> In previous studies that tried to use cultural comparisons to
find useful remedies, scientists struggled to make meaningful
taxonomic comparisons. “If [local] floras are different,
obviously plants that are used in traditional medicine will be
different,” said Royal Botanic Gardens Kew postdoc Haris
Saslis-Lagoudakis, lead author of the study, which was published
today (September 10) in the Proceedings of the National
Academies of Science. But Haris and his colleagues’ phylogenetic
comparisons allowed them to link seemingly unrelated plants.
>
> [center]
>
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-090718211507-14382262.png[/center]
> [center]A plant trader selling medicinal plants at the Mona
Market, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa. [/center]
> Natural History Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen, Denmark, Gary
Stafford
>
> They constructed genus-level phylogenetic trees of plants from
3 disparate locations—New Zealand, Nepal, and the Cape of South
Africa. Once they assembled their trees, they overlaid
ethnobotanical data regarding the therapeutic uses of various
plants by cultures from each of the three locations (one culture
from New Zealand, three cultures from The Cape of South Africa,
and more than 80 cultures from Nepal).
>
> In the flora phylogenies for each of the three continents,
medicinal plants clustered into “hot nodes,” meaning they were
more related to each other than the other plants in the
analysis. Further, categorizing medicinal plants by what
condition they treated, the researchers found that medicinal
plants clustered into condition-specific nodes, even when the
analyses from all three locations were combined—again suggesting
a high degree of relatedness for plants used to treat similar
conditions and lending some validity to these herbal treatments.
>
> Biomedical researchers have occasionally drawn from
ethnobotany and traditional treatments when looking for new
drugs, but the use of this strategy has waned in recent decades.
Though more than 80 percent of plant species have not been
tested for therapeutic potential, the last major drug discovered
from plants was the cancer drug Taxol in 1967.
>
> This lack of interest stems, in part, from skepticism about
the legitimacy of traditional plant therapies. Many cultures use
medicinal plants for multiple ailments, for example. If a plant
is good for your stomach, people may start taking it for
problems with their nearby liver, then their lungs, then their
heart and head, and so on, said Daniel Moerman, a professor
emeritus of the University of Michigan-Dearborn and a leading
expert on ethnobotany and cross-cultural studies. This makes it
difficult to determine what condition a medicinal plant may
effectively treat.
>
> Haris, who recently completed his PhD at the University of
Reading, sidestepped the issue by accounting for all the
documented conditions each plant treated. “We scored
everything—all of the uses that are defined—and let the results
speak for themselves.”
>
>
> [center]
>
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-090718211515-14391924.png[/center]
> [center]Pseudowintera colorata, a plant species used
medicinally in New Zealand. Pseudowintera species are used
traditionally by Māori people to treat skin conditions,
respiratory problems, and to help heal wounds. Manaaki Whenua
Landcare Research, Lincoln, New Zealand, Steven
Wagstaff[/center]
>
> Another criticism facing the study is that cultures sometimes
use symbolic visual cues to identify potentially
disease-treating plants. For example, it may be common for
traditional healers to treat menstrual symptoms with plants that
have red flowers, explains evolutionary biologist and senior
researcher on the study Julie Hawkins. Such appearance-based
selection would suggest that relatedness of medicinal plants is
due to looks, not bioactivity.
>
> “But, we’re finding a lot of morphological variation amongst
[related medicinal plants],” Hawkins said, which suggests that
visual cues don’t explain their relatedness.
>
> The researchers also looked at plants being developed or
already in use as drug therapies around the globe and found a
significant number fell in the nodes with the traditional
medicinal plants, further supporting the validity of the method
in identifying plants useful for drug discovery. The team noted
several plant genera related to traditional medicinal plants
that have not been tested for bioactivity, which could serve as
low-hanging fruit in the search for new therapies.
>
> Both Beutler and Moerman expressed skepticism, however, that
pharmaceutical companies would jump at the new approach to
guiding their drug discovery, as the industry has largely
shifted toward robotic, high-throughput screens of chemical
libraries. But new approaches are always welcome, Beutler said.
“The perception is that we’re doing the same old grind and find,
and it’s just not the case.”
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://the-scientist.com/2012/09/10/rethinking-herbal-medicine/
HTML http://the-scientist.com/2012/09/10/rethinking-herbal-medicine/
It's good to see scientists doing good science instead of
rejecting ancient and hard won knowledge out of hand.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.pnghttp://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png
[/quote]
#Post#: 10278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Golden Oxen link ---
>
> [quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg8009#msg8009
date=1347406856]
> GO,
> I do observe that scramble for Gold by the Chinese and
Russians. It reminds me of dinosaurs (Empires "doing what they
do") fighting among themselves for the top predator spot while
they ignore that meteor in the sky.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think they know the meteor is there. They ignore it because of
their deeper concern about today and tomorrow.
Your 9/11 posting was awesome Agelbert, while I had problems
understanding some of the physics, the over all message came
through loud and clear. To be absolutely honest, it scared the
living s h i t out of me, because it had the smell, feel, and
created and instinctive knowledge within me that is definitely
true.
Going to bed with a lot of whys on my mind, and of lot of things
not fully understood before are fast becoming very clear, such
as the 400 million bullet order and the Patriot Act. Thank you
Agelbert for educating me in this most important matter.
GO
[/quote]
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> GO,
> You are always welcome. The more we know, the better prepared
we are to face an uncertain future. That is why I hunt around
for information that may aid earnest individuals like the
gathering we have here at the Diner to to be as well informed as
possible given the fact that none of us here are privy to the
elite data base.
>
> My ATC experience has helped you and anyone that reads it to
get an honest appraisal of the events that day. I can say the
same for many bits and pieces of info I have obtained here from
virtually everybody that posts, Ashvin included :icon_mrgreen:.
This is the type of synergy that human society can prosper from
in the area of the intellect. Times are hard. We are all doing
what we can to inform each other soberly and to keep our spirits
up as well. I appreciate your constant updates on economics and
government intrusion danger as well. 👍
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 10279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> Golden Oxen,
> Yes sir, if my dream comes true, we will replace all
hydrocarbon plastics with plastics made from Hemp. We will use
varieties of Hemp Cannabis for health as well as many other
NATURAL plant substances. I, of course, would only use pot for
"medicinal" purposes. :icon_mrgreen: For fuel, we will use
ethanol made from Lemna minor (Duckweed) and other, quick
growing, chemical pesticide and fertilizer free plants that
don't require soil tilling (Definitely NOT the "set up to fail
by big oil" CORN biofuels).[b]
>
> [quote][b]1 acre of corn = 150-300 bushels of corn = 420-840
gallons of ethanol 👎
> vs.
> 1 acre of grass = 5-15 tons of plant material = 150-1200
gallons of ethanol 👍
>
> Ethanol is a process that ferments sugars into alcohol. It can
be made from many different plant sources or feedstocks.
--- End Quote ---
Or we may just all choke from our hydrocarbon poisons. :(
HTML http://web.extension.illinois.edu/ethanol/images/us_map.jpg
--- Quote ---
> Researchers are exploring ways to make ethanol from other
feedstocks or plant materials. Feedstocks are also known as
biomass and include corn stover (leaves and stalks of the corn
plant), corncobs, and wheat straw, perennial grasses, wood chips
(including waste from the forestry and paper industries), and
waste from food manufacturing. Waste from our communities such
as garbage, shredded paper, and wood waste is being considered
also. Researchers from around the world are evaluating plant
materials that grow in their region for cellulosic ethanol
production potential.
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://web.extension.illinois.edu/ethanol/cellulosic.cfm
HTML http://web.extension.illinois.edu/ethanol/cellulosic.cfm
--- Quote ---
> Why Alcohol Fuel? The Two-Minute Summary
>
> 1. Almost every country can become energy independent.
Anywhere that has sunlight and land can produce alcohol from
plants. Brazil, the fifth largest country in the world imports
no oil, since half its cars run on alcohol fuel made from
sugarcane, grown on 1% of its land.
>
> 2. We can reverse global warming. Since alcohol is made from
plants, its production takes carbon dioxide out of the air,
sequestering it, with the result that it reverses the greenhouse
effect (while potentially vastly improving the soil). Recent
studies show that in a permaculturally designed mixed-crop
alcohol fuel production system, the amount of greenhouse gases
removed from the atmosphere by plants—and then exuded by plant
roots into the soil as sugar—can be 13 times what is emitted by
processing the crops and burning the alcohol in our cars.
>
> 3. We can revitalize the economy instead of suffering through
Peak Oil. Oil is running out, and what we replace it with will
make a big difference in our environment and economy. Alcohol
fuel production and use is clean and environmentally
sustainable, and will revitalize families, farms, towns, cities,
industries, as well as the environment. A national switch to
alcohol fuel would provide many millions of new permanent jobs.
>
> 4. No new technological breakthroughs are needed. We can make
alcohol fuel out of what we have, where we are. Alcohol fuel can
efficiently be made out of many things, from waste products like
stale donuts, grass clippings, food processing waste-even ocean
kelp. Many crops produce many times more alcohol per acre than
corn, using arid, marshy, or even marginal land in addition to
farmland. Just our lawn clippings could replace a third of the
autofuel we get from the Mideast.
>
> 5. Unlike hydrogen fuel cells, we can easily use alcohol fuel
in the vehicles we already own. Unmodified cars can run on 50%
alcohol, and converting to 100% alcohol or flexible fueling
(both alcohol and gas) costs only a few hundred dollars. Most
auto companies already sell new dual-fuel vehicles.
>
> 6. Alcohol is a superior fuel to gasoline! It’s 105 octane,
burns much cooler with less vibration, is less flammable in case
of accident, is 98% pollution-free, has lower evaporative
emissions, and deposits no carbon in the engine or oil,
resulting in a tripling of engine life. Specialized alcohol
engines can get at least 22% better mileage than gasoline or
diesel.
>
> 7. It’s not just for gasoline cars. We can also easily use
alcohol fuel to power diesel engines, trains, aircraft, small
utility engines, generators to make electricity, heaters for our
homes—and it can even be used to cook our food.
>
> 8. Alcohol has a proud history. Gasoline is a refinery’s toxic
waste; alcohol fuel is liquid sunshine. Henry Ford’s early cars
were all flex-fuel. It wasn’t until gasoline magnate John D.
Rockefeller funded Prohibition that alcohol fuel companies were
driven out of business.
>
> 9. The byproducts of alcohol production are clean, instead of
being oil refinery waste, and are worth more than the alcohol
itself. In fact, they can make petrochemical fertilizers and
herbicides obsolete. The alcohol production process concentrates
and makes more digestible all protein and non-starch nutrients
in the crop. It’s so nutritious that when used as animal feed,
it produces more meat or milk than the corn it comes from.
That’s right, fermentation of corn increases the food supply and
lowers the cost of food.
>
> 10. Locally produced ethanol supercharges regional economies.
Instead of fuel expenditures draining capital away to foreign
bank accounts, each gallon of alcohol produces local income that
gets recirculated many times. Every dollar of tax credit for
alcohol generates up to $6 in new tax revenues from the
increased local business.
>
> 11. Alcohol production brings many new small-scale business
opportunities. There is huge potential for profitable local,
integrated, small-scale businesses that produce alcohol and
related byproducts, whereas when gas was cheap, alcohol plants
had to be huge to make a profit.
>
> 12. Scale matters—most of the widely publicized potential
problems with ethanol are a function of scale. Once production
plants get beyond a certain size and are too far away from the
crops that supply them, closing the ecological loop becomes
problematic. Smaller-scale operations can more efficiently use a
wide variety of crops than huge specialized one-crop plants, and
diversification of crops would largely eliminate the problems of
monoculture.
>
> 13. The byproducts of small-scale alcohol plants can be used
in profitable, energy-efficient, and environmentally positive
ways. For instance, spent mash (the liquid left over after
distillation) contains all the nutrients the next fuel crop
needs and can return it back to the soil if the fields are close
to the operation. Big-scale plants, because they bring in crops
from up to 45 miles away, can’t do this, so they have to
evaporate all the water and sell the resulting byproduct as
low-price animal feed,which accounts for half the energy used in
the plant.
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/node/518
HTML http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/node/518
[move]The above is not hopium, it's science! Only Big Oil
prevents it from happening.
[/move]
Lemna minor (Duckweed) ponds treat the waste and provide biomass
for pelletized duckweed animal feed, furnace fuel or ethanol.
[url=
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/renewables/blasts-form-the-2012-to-2013-past-when-there-was-more-hope/msg10256/#msg10256]Duckweed<br
/>is two solutions in one!
[/quote]
#Post#: 10280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> Finally! NASA (Never A Straight Answer) gives a STRAIGHT
ANSWER!
>
> Sorry, it's not about ETs but it is good for your health.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.pnghttp://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png
>
>
> [quote]Saturday, September 15, 2012
>
> [center]Want Cleaner and Purer Air? Try Air-Cleaning Plants,
NASA Says [/center]
> Elizabeth Renter
> Activist Post
>
> NASA knows a thing or two about keeping air clean, sending
astronauts into space with a limited amount of breathable air
for months
> After all, they can’t simply open a window when things get
stuffy in space.
>
> What NASA researchers have learned about air quality in the
home concerning air-cleaning plants, however, is refreshing to
say the least.
>
> They’ve found several common houseplant varieties can
essentially clean the air of certain chemicals. They tested a
variety of plants to see which was best at removing carcinogens
like trichloroethylene, formaldehyde, and benzene. But, these
chemicals aren’t in my home—you might be thinking. And you would
be wrong.
>
> Cleansing the air with Air-Cleaning Plants
>
> According to the NY Times:
>
> Formaldehyde is commonly found in drapes, glues and coating
products. Benzene is a component of paint supplies and tobacco
smoke, and trichloroethylene is used in adhesives, spot removers
and other household products.”
> And with asbestos, formaldehyde, and other VOCs leaching off
every wall of our home, it’s no surprise that indoor pollution
may be causing 50% of illnesses worldwide.
>
> Those headaches you have on a regular basis, where the cause
just can’t be pinpointed, may actually be a result of poor air
quality in your home. The good news is that you can cleanse the
air with air-cleaning plants – what better way to solve a
problem than with nature.
>
> Taken from NASA’s ‘Interior Landscape Plants for Indoor Air
Pollutant Abatement‘ report, it reads:
> Another promising approach to further reducing trace levels of
air pollutants in side future space habitats is the use of
higher plants and their associated soil microorganisms. (28-29)
Since man’s existence on Earth depends upon a life support
system involving an intricate relationship with plants and their
associated microorganisms, it should be obvious that when he
attempts to isolate himself in tightly sealed buildings away
from this ecological system, problems will arise…
> In this study the leaves, roots, soil, and associated
microorganisms of plants have been evaluated as a possible means
of reducing indoor air pollutants. Additionally, a novel
approach of using plants stems for removing high concentrations
of indoor air pollutants such as cigarette smoke, organic
solvents, and possibly radon has been designed from this work.
>
> The plants found to be most effective at purifying the air
include:
> [center]
>
>
HTML http://www.spaths.com/images/spathiphyllum-allison.jpg[/center]
> [center]Peace lilies[/center]
>
>
[center]
HTML http://www.consumerinstinct.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/mothersinlaw.jpg[/center]
> [center]Mother-in-law’s tongue (also called a snake plant - no
jokes please! ;D[/center]
>
>
[center]
HTML http://www.cpdi.net/images/pl/Ficus%20Tree%204'-7'.jpg[/center]
> [center]Ficus[/center]
>
>
HTML http://www.silkflowersexpress.com/gd9222.jpg
> Gerbera daisies
>
>
[center]
HTML http://justplantdesigners.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/L22.jpg[/center]
> [center]Snake plants [/center]
>
>
[center]
HTML http://www.guide-to-houseplants.com/images/pothos.jpg[/center]
> [center]Devil’s ivy [/center]
>
> Dr. Clifford W. Bassett, of New York University’s School of
Medicine says that one plant for every 100 square feet of your
home is a good rule of thumb.
>
> Rather than spending several hundred dollars on air purifiers
and humidifiers, you can spend a few dollars on a plant and some
dirt for the same or even better effects.
>
> And of course there are other air purifying plants you can use
as well:
>
>
[center]
HTML http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100427215447/gardening/images/1/14/800px-Chrysanthemum_morifolium_cvs2.jpg[/center]
> [center]Chrysanthemum (Chrysantheium morifolium) - Reduces
benzene and formaldehyde, while adding a splash of color in your
home. [/center]
>
>
[center]
HTML http://realpalmtrees.com/palm-tree-store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/b/a/bamboo-palm-tree-chamaedorea-seifrizii-10-01-b-realpalmtrees.com.jpg[/center]
> [center]Bamboo palm (Chamaedorea sefritzii) - A great plant
for being out of direct sunlight, bamboo palm cleanses the air
of formaldehyde. [/center]
>
> [center][img
width=400]
HTML http://www.plantdirections.com/Dracaena%20Marginata.JPG[/img][/center]
> [center]Red-Edge dracaena (Dracaena marginata) - This
large-growing plant removes benzene and trichloroethylene from
its surroundings. [/center]
>
>
[center]
HTML http://s.ecrater.com/stores/50831/48110a402ff95_50831b.jpg[/center]
> [center]Spider plant (Chlorophytum comosum) - Don’t want to
baby plants? Try this low-maintenance option that filters
formaldehyde. [/center]
>
> It’s nearly impossible to get completely away from air
pollution. Even if you move to a cave in the mountains, your
fire and the smog from nearby areas would reach you. But, if you
can decorate your house with air-cleaning plants, you can at
least minimize their presence in your most sacred of spaces.
>
> While some insist on moving toward genetically modified plants
that produce pharmaceuticals, the rest of us simply want to
embrace the the natural cleansing capabilities of nature.
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://www.activistpost.com/2012/09/want-cleaner-and-purer-air-try-air.html
HTML http://www.activistpost.com/2012/09/want-cleaner-and-purer-air-try-air.html
[/quote]
#Post#: 10281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
>
> [center]Our story in 2 minutes[/center]
>
> [center]
HTML https://youtu.be/MrqqD_Tsy4Q[/center]
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 10282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> [quote] The poison hemlock famously drunk by Socrates is
deadly, but the water hemlock is just as fatal. According to the
USDA, water hemlock or poison parsnip is “the most violently
toxic plant in North America”. The flowers and stems are safe,
but the stalky roots contain chambers that are full of a deadly
sap containing the convulsant cicutoxin. Grand mal seizures are
followed by a quick death if even a tiny amount is consumed.
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2008/09/16/16-most-unassuming-yet-lethal-killer-plants/
HTML http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2008/09/16/16-most-unassuming-yet-lethal-killer-plants/
--- Quote ---
> Medical treatment of poisoning may include the use of
activated charcoal to decrease gastrointestinal absorption of
the toxic principle along with supportive care including
anticonvulsant drugs such as a benzodiazepine. High doses of
anticonvulsant medicine are often required to halt seizure
activity and further medical care including intubation and
mechanical ventilation may be required.
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicuta
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicuta
The street name for Benzodiazepines is "Benzos". You've probably
taken some at one time or another if you have ever been
prescribed medication for anxiety (or been IN on the college or
street drug scene 8)). Veterinarians give it to cats before a
procedure. :cat: It has a curious effect on them (makes them
ravenously hungry when they wake up) so, with moderation (Vet
supervision strongly recommended), you can perk up your cat's
appetite if he refuses to eat. But I digress.
EMT's carry benzos because, if someone is convulsing, this stuff
goes straight to the glutamate transmission mechanism in humans
and prevents the transmission from locking in the "ON" position
which will produce hypertoxicity and mess you up very badly (a
lot of pain for the rest of your life) if it doesn't kill you
right away.
Halcion is a benzo. They are very addictive and, since the body
of humans (and cats in particular) metabolizes them very slowly
in the liver (there are some exceptions to this), can become
toxic for the liver. There are other cognitive problems
associated with abuse of benzos as well. Don't use them unless
it is an emergency but if you can have some in your bugout first
aid kit, it's a great idea.
Cicuta (Water hemlock) varieties are quite common in the US.
This is a map of the distribution of Cicuta maculata (spotted
Water hemlock) in the lower 48.
HTML http://www.prairiemoon.com/images/MP/cicuta-maculata-water-hemlock-map.gif
[center]
HTML http://www.invisibleoranges.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/phyte-club-water-hemlock.jpg[/center]
[center]Spotted Water hemlock[/center]
[center]
HTML http://www.wildernesscollege.com/images/water-hemlock-leaf.jpg[/center]
[center]Spotted Water hemlock
[/center]
HTML http://foodunderfoot.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/waterhemlockleaves-300x225.jpg
Spotted Water hemlock
All in the (highly poisonous ☠️) family:
[center]
HTML http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/856843/856843,1326896985,3/stock-photo-cowbane-or-northern-water-hemlock-cicuta-virosa-poisonous-plants-vintage-illustration-from-93041197.jpg[/center]
[center] Circuta virosa (Northern Water hemlock or Cowbane)
illlustration showing the root chambers with the convulsant
poison sap. This is common to all types of Water
Hemlock.[/center]
[center]
HTML http://njaes.rutgers.edu/images/photos/harmfulplants/large/waterhemlockroot.jpg[/center]
[center]water hemlock root[/center]
Cicuta douglasii (Western Water Hemlock) is just as poisonous.
Here's the geographic distribution:
[center]
HTML http://cdn3.findthebest.com/sites/default/files/958/media/images/Western_Water_Hemlock_Cicuta_douglasii.png[/center]
[center]Western Water Hemlock[/center]
[center]
HTML http://i.pbase.com/g6/25/718925/2/83180805.g6jKbsDJ.jpg[/center]
[center]Western Water Hemlock[/center]
[center]
HTML http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/images/77b.jpg[/center]
[center]Western Water Hemlock poison chambers at root base
exposed[/center]
I recommend Doomstad Diners read up on this plant (all the
Cicuta family). Why? Because it is common and thereby accessible
to you in a collapse scenario.
Homeopathic use of this plant's poison root sap or juice is
limited to some topical applications and Never for internal use.
But always remember the basis of plant poisons is mostly
alkaloids. Living things haven't evolved a defense against
alkaloids. Consequently, some insects that attack your dwelling
or your skin might be warded off with homemade concoctions of
this poison.
Cicuta will be there when we are gone. Make it your friend and
it can help keep you healthy. Of course you must make sure that
animals don't forage on it (It ain't called cowbane for
nothin'!) but you can use cicutoxin to your benefit instead of
your detriment.
Don't confuse Water Hemlock with the following two look alikes:
1. Queen Ann's Lace (Daucus carota - wild carrot)
[center]
HTML http://www2.ic.edu/prairie/queen-anne's-lace-9.jpg[/center]
[center] Notice how flat and platelike the flower bouquet shape
is [/center]
[center]
HTML http://l.yimg.com/ck/image/A1369/136909/300_136909.jpg[/center]
[center]Queen Ann's Lace [/center]
As you will see, this plant's charcteristics and uses for humans
are radically different from hemlock poisons.
--- Quote ---
> Queen Anne's Lace is found all over the United States and goes
by many different names: Wild Carrot, Birds Nest Weed, Devils
Plague, Fools Parsley, and Lace Flower. You have probably seen
it growing by the roadside.
> It grows two to four feet tall with the flower head made up of
numerous tiny flowers. There may be a red or purple flower in
the middle. This is too attract insects.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> Queen Anne's Lace is a member of the carrot family and if you
dig up the roots or break the stem and smell it, it will smell
like carrots.
>
> When young, the root is edible, but as it grows older it
becomes tough and fibrous and doesn't' taste as good.
> This flower has been in the United States since colonial
times, probably its seeds come over her in bags of grain from
Europe, maybe even with the pilgrims.
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://voices.yahoo.com/queen-annes-lace-more-than-just-weed-510975.html?cat=32
HTML http://voices.yahoo.com/queen-annes-lace-more-than-just-weed-510975.html?cat=32
MAYBE, my FOOT! It seems those prudish pilgrim ladies that came
over from Europe were more modern and practical than many give
them credit for.
--- Quote ---
> Women have used the seeds from Daucus carota commonly known as
wild carrot or queen anne's lace, for centuries as a
contraceptive, the earliest written reference dates back to the
late 5th or 4th century B.C. appearing in a work written by
Hippocrates. John Riddle writes in Eve's Herbs, that queen
anne's lace (QAL) seeds are one of the more potent antifertility
agents available, and a common plant in many regions of the
world. "The seeds, harvested in the fall, are a strong
contraceptive if taken orally immediately after coitus."1 (pe
nis/vag ina sex).
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://www.sisterzeus.com/qaluse.htm
HTML http://www.sisterzeus.com/qaluse.htm
Take THAT, you feminists! ;D
Where was I?
Right, back to poisons ☠️ :
2. POISON HEMLOCK - (Conium maculatum)
[center]
HTML http://www.bihrmann.com/caudiciforms/difo/con-mac-flo1.jpg[/center]
[center] Conium maculatum [/center]
[center]
HTML http://missouriplants.com/Whitealt/Conium_maculatum_flowers_close.jpg[/center]
[center] Conium maculatum flowers close up [/center]
[center]
HTML http://botany.thismia.com/__oneclick_uploads/2010/06/conium_maculatum1.jpg[/center]
[center] Conium maculatum [/center]
[center]
HTML http://www.plantillustration.com/images/Poison-hemlock-Conium-maculatum-illustration.jpg[/center]
[center] Conium maculatum [/center]
Doomstead Diners would do well to learn from plants that when
you have little or no mobility (i.e. fast collapse scenario)
you need to be unattractive to predators. Spiders use quick
acting neurotoxins to immobilize prey. Plants get their energy
from the sun and whatever else they need from the interplay of
pollinating insects, seed dispersing earthlings that eat the
fruit and soil microbes that fix nitrogen and aid in essential
minerals uptake.
Plants, unlike us, are quite willing to lose parts without
skipping a beat as long as those parts are above ground. Kill
the roots and you kill the plant. So it is logical that plants
want to send a strong message to any animal that bites into
their root systems that it's a lousy idea if staying alive is
the plan. Learn from the plants. In a collapse scenario, if you
aren't superman, your chances of being left alone are much
improved if you are considered as unattractive as a leper. Think
about it. It may save your life.
Nature's most widely used defense mechanism is camouflage. After
camouflage comes POISON. In the biosphere, a good hiding spot
with a biological shield that doubles as a snare is far more
energy efficient than fangs and claws. And even all these
earthlings armed with sharp teeth, fangs and claws don't go
around killing things when they aren't hungry. Only mankind is
that stupid.
[/quote]
#Post#: 10283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Blasts from the 2012 to 2013 past when there was more HOPE
🌟
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: July 9, 2018, 8:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: agelbert link ---
>
> pansceptic,
> [quote]Now it's true that Rosary Pea only lives in tropical
and subtropical climates, in N America that means South Florida
and Mexico.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that you hit on the reason right there. The ubiquity of
water hemlock combined with the quick acting poison seems to be
the FDA reasoning behind giving Cicuta top billing.
As to Lethal Dosing levels with the Rosary Pea, I wasn't aware
of their high toxicity. Thanks for the info. I've been reading
about different plants with some powerful alkaloids (
HTML http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0703.htm
HTML http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0703.htm
) and I haven't worked
my way to the Rosary Pea yet.
If you want a VERY high poison for a blow dart, you obviously
want a high concentration of toxin in the substance. The best
way to go there is the arachnids. Highly venomous spiders
immobilize their prey. Death occurs sometimes instantly but
often later. From your point of view (and the spider's point of
view as well) your main goal is immobilization. Hence you have
to interfere with the mammalian nervous system so the ATP
(adenosine tri phosphate) energy bundles that drive muscle
movement are stopped in their tracks. Muscle movement is
directed by magnesium and calcium ion channels in the central
nervous system. A neurotoxin locks these channels in the "ON"
position resulting in no movement at all OR violent convulsions
including heart fibrillation, lung paralysis and subsequent
death. It's been a while since I went through the whole
glutamate channel freeze up (GABA receptors) process so I may
have left out some steps in this biochemical death dance but I'm
sure you get the idea. It's FAST!
The venom of the abundant Latrodectus mactans (black widow)
consists a variable mix of neurotoxic proteins, enzymes and
bioactive molecules such as polyamines that potentiate
neurotoxicity. This helps immobilize the prey and begins
digesting it too. When we get bitten by a black widow, we can
suffer from latrodectism. Other spiders like the brown recluse
can cause inflammation and hemorrhagic ulceration. I'd go with
black widow venom.
HTML http://www.umm.edu/graphics/images/en/19582.jpg
The chelicarae are the hollow fangs with a venom sack for each
inside and behind them. As long as that venom doesn't get to an
open wound in YOU, you can eat a prey animal you just
immobilized with the blow dart coated with spider neurotoxin.
You cannot say the same about plant poisons. That cicotoxin or
other alkaloid plant poison will be in the animal you just
brought down. Spider venom in the animal will not affect you.
It seems like a better deal for prey.
That said, you need to understand that neurotoxins have shelf
lives and may require refrigeration. I don't know. You would
need to start a black widow raising operation. I'm sure your
wife would just love that! :icon_mrgreen: Those spiders are
probably not too difficult to raise. Just make sure they have
enough bugs and water. Field biologists "milk" the venom from
spiders (without the need to kill them) by a brief exposure
(about 10 seconds) to 100% carbon dioxide (spider in a bottle
filled with this gas or a hood bubble place over it. You can
tell the spider gets knocked out because its legs fold up or
appear to relax- the info on how specifically to do this is on
the internet if you are interested - no I don't have a link
handy). When a spider clamps its chelicerae, the venom is
automatically pumped into the holding flask through the latex
membrane just bitten.
Finally, depending on how much you actually need to bring down
the animal you are hunting (venom to weight ratio), a dart
needle covered with the venom may not be sufficient. You may
have to get a hypodermic with a tiny steel ball at the end and
syringe the venom up into the needle, remove the needle and
mount it on the dart. When the needle impacts the animal, the
tiny ball will inject the venom for quick immobilization and a
less painful death for the animal (the quicker, the better).
This is what black widow venom does to us:
--- Quote ---
> If enough venom is injected into a person's body, severe pain
in local muscle groups occurs, and eventually to regional muscle
groups. The spread relates to the toxin initially being carried
by the lymphatic system until it reaches the blood stream. Once
in the blood, the venom is moved by circulation, causing its
toxins to be deposited in the ends of the nerves that are
inserted into the muscle.
>
> The venom acts at nerve endings to prevent relaxation of
muscles, causing tetany — constant, strong, and painful muscle
contractions. Thus initial pain is often followed by severe
muscle cramps. Contraction of musculature may extend throughout
the body, though cramping in the abdomen is frequently the most
severe. Back and leg muscles can often be affected as well.
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectism
HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectism
IF someone shot a dart of this venom at us with 10 or fifteen
times the dose a black widow normally injects, we would probably
be dead within minutes.
I do not recommend using plant alkaloids for blow darts. Maybe
there is a way the curare natives could use it and eat the prey
but I don't know the technique. If you learn it, please share it
with us here. I hope this helps.
[/quote]
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