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#Post#: 2915--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 1, 2015, 9:35 pm
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Tue Mar 31, 2015 at 04:27 PM PDT
[center]Stirring photo: little girl surrenders when she mistakes
camera for gun. [img
width=80]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-041115022304.png[/img][/center]
[center][img
width=640]
HTML https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/viral_photo1.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1[/img][/center]
"I was using a telephoto lens, and she thought it was a weapon,"
says Sağırlı. "İ realised she was terrified
after I took it, and looked at the picture, because she bit her
lips and raised her hands. Normally kids run away, hide their
faces or smile when they see a camera."
HTML http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/31/1374712/-Stirring-photo-little-girl-surrenders-when-she-mistakes-camera-for-gun
#Post#: 2978--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 15, 2015, 8:55 pm
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RE,
I am sorry to hear of your plight with all the red tape and
threatened costs. It's smart of you to have a lawyer running
interference. Insurance companies only listen when they are
forced to by lawyers.
As to your neck (C4-C5 vertebrae damage), I will pray for you
every day.
What does the surgery consist of? Are they going to reposition
the discs or put in some added disc cushioning?
[img width=369
height=565]
HTML http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Neck-Injury.jpg[/img]
Is that your x-ray? It looks like C4 rode up on C5. Bummer.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp
Why can't they use traction to reposition your vertebrae? Sure,
with hospital stays being what they are ($30,000 went to my
insurance for ONE DAY in a hospital when I got my pacemaker in
2007). Granted, the big bucks went for the pacemaker and the
surgeon but the room is still over $1,000 a day. So if it took a
30 day stay fro a slow repo of your vertebrae with no guarantees
that they could avoid surgery, perhaps that is why they are so
gung ho to do the surgery.
Do they have you on some kind of anti-inflammatory meds now? I
read somewhere that ANY inflammation in the spinal cord is very,
very dangerous.
If there anything you want me to research and get back to you
on, just say the word and I'll get right on it.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-210614215719.gif
#Post#: 2981--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 16, 2015, 1:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RE link=topic=4612.msg73124#msg73124
date=1429155247]
That is not my X-Ray. I just used it for illustration. I would
likely be quadraplegic already with that one. I'm not putting
my own snapshots up for legal reasons.
The procedures are C3-4, C4-5 anterior cervical discectomies.
anterior allograft fusion, nucel, and a possible corpectomy. If
you feel like researching all of them and reporting on what they
are planning on doing to fix me up, go for it.
The problem here is the channel is just too narrow to begin
with, and the displacement from the injury makes it worse.
Nothing short of surgery resolves this one.
Cost estimate is around $45K just for the Pro from Dover who
carves up the neck. Then there are the costs from the
Anesthesiologist and the Radiologist and the Hospital Operating
Room charges, then the in-patient recovery time estimated at 2
days (WHAT? I'm good to go after just 2 days with this
operation?), then 6 more weeks recovery time after that at home.
No idea how mobile I will be during that 6 weeks. No doubt
wearing a collar the whole time. Anyhow, rule of thumb is 3X
what the surgeon charges for the whole ball of wax.
I was able to get the lawyer no charge because it's a pretty
good case they think they can win or settle on. They only get
paid if they win or settle. The lawyer told me when I asked what
percentage they lost, his reply was they don't take cases they
can't win or settle. They do the most Workman's Comp cases of
any firm in Alaska, so one hopes they know what they are doing.
RE
[/quote]
RE,
Thanks for the info. I'll get to the research tomorrow. I just
watched a video (animation) of a discectomy.
As you said, traction is useless. It seems they get between the
vertebrae, jack them up a little, pull the disk, clean up the
area, put two metal plates with cleats (a top and a bottom where
the disc was) in position, insert a prosthetic disk, return the
vertebrae to position (which holds the new disc in place) and
sometimes fuse the vertebrae together with some special cement
after that.
And yeah, the recovery is incredibly short! The cement, even
when they pump it into a collapsed vertebrae, sets within a half
hour or so. They claim relief is normally instantaneous (at
least with cement filled collapsed vertebrae).
I'm going to bed now but I'll dig up some videos if you are
interested in the nuts and bolts (they use screws and bolts
sometimes too).
Hang in there.
#Post#: 2982--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 16, 2015, 4:05 pm
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RE,
This is what I have so far. I am posting it now in case you have
a possibility of taking advantage of a giant freebee clinical
trial. [img width=70
height=60]
HTML http://elqahera-trading.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dollar-sign-thumbnail1.jpg[/img]<br
/>
HTML http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif
[img width=40
height=40]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png[/img]<br
/>
I will post graphics on the procedures you listed soon. [img
width=75
height=50]
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/reading.gif[/img]
C3-4, C4-5 anterior cervical discectomies (ACDF), anterior
allograft fusion, nucel, and a possible corpectomy.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/34y5mvr.gif
Anterior Cervical Discectomy and Fusion (ACDF) Video
HTML http://www.spine-health.com/video/anterior-cervical-discectomy-and-fusion-acdf-video
HTML http://www.spine-health.com/video/anterior-cervical-discectomy-and-fusion-acdf-video
NuCel® allograft
NuCel is a minimally manipulated allograft product derived from
amniotic membrane along with cells from amniotic fluid.
Allograft bone is bone that comes another patient. NuCel and
Allograft bone will be combined for this treatment.
Is the following a NuCel freebee opportunity?
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-301014182447.gif
[font=times new roman]
ClinicalTrials.gov
A service of the U.S. National Institutes of Health[/font]
A Prospective Study of NuCel® in Cervical Spine Fusion
This study is currently recruiting participants. (see Contacts
and Locations) Verified March 2015 by NuCel, LLC.
Estimated Enrollment: 60
Study Start Date: March 2015
Estimated Study Completion Date: September 2016
Estimated Primary Completion Date: September 2016 (Final data
collection date for primary outcome measure)
Detailed Description:
The study is intended to demonstrate that the NuCel® allograft
is effective and safe in promoting bone growth and fusion rate
when used in cervical fusion in patients with one, two or
three-level diseases of the cervical spine. ... ...
All subjects will have been established with cervical spine
disease at one, two or three levels of the cervical spine that
requires cervical interbody fusion per the opinion of the
treating surgeon.
The primary objective is to demonstrate that NuCel® is
comparable to autograft bone graft in producing a successful,
contiguous fusion at 6 months ±4 weeks post-operative when used
in cervical fusion surgery. Success based on findings of
cervical CT scan and plain radiographs. Additionally, Visual
Analog Scale (VAS), Neck Disability Index (NDI) and patient
satisfaction will be used as secondary outcome measures. Success
based on findings of cervical CT scan and plain radiographs.
Condition:
Spondylosis
Spinal Stenosis
Spondylolisthesis
Intervertebral Disc Disease
Intervertebral Disc Degeneration
Intervention:
Other: NuCel with Allograft Bone
HTML https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02381067
HTML https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02381067
Aglebert NOTE: Please checkout the exclusion criteria numbers 1
and 2 for the study participants.
corpectomy
[quote]A corpectomy is a surgical procedure to remove a
vertebral body, usually to decompress the spinal cord. In this
surgery, the vertebral bodies and adjacent vertebral discs are
removed in order to alleviate the pressure on the spinal cord,
which is causing spinal stenosis and cervical
myelopathy.[/quote]
Agelbert NOTE: Stenosis, as you know, is narrowing. Sometimes
that stenosis is not precisely narrowing. Sometimes stenosis
consists of tiny bone spurs here and there inside the channel
your nerve cord goes through which are literally a pain in the
back, as well as interfering with movement and signaling.
SO, they have to go in there and get rid of those spurs (if they
are there) when they are doing an ACDF and/or a corpectomy.
All the fusion cement and metal plates with bolts stuff is their
way of guaranteeing that things won't get out of place after
they relieve spinal cord pressure. I am certain that fusion
won't help you if you want to perform new yoga positions. ;D
But it will, in theory [img width=060
height=055]
HTML http://www.emofaces.com/png/200/emoticons/fingerscrossed.png[/img],<br
/>keep you pain free and able to move normally. However, that
means no more gymnastics or stunts on your electric bike!
HTML http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6869.gif
#Post#: 2983--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 16, 2015, 7:07 pm
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[center][img width=640
height=980]
HTML http://www.axis-hospital-croatia.com/img/proceduresspine/acdf.jpg[/img][/center]
[center]Anterior Cervical Decompression and Fusion Surgery
(ACDF)[/center]
Anterior Cervical Discectomy and Fusion (ACDF) is performed at
the Spine Institute Northwest as a minimally invasive spine
surgical procedure to treat nerve root or spinal cord
compression in the cervical spine. The procedure has two parts,
first a discectomy to remove the problem disc and decompress the
spinal cord and nerve roots, then a fusion to stabilize the
corresponding vertebrae. ACDF can be performed via a small
incision in the front of the neck, providing relief from spinal
cord or nerve root pressure and alleviating symptoms including
pain, weakness, numbness, and tingling either at the site, or in
the parts of the body the affected nerve serves.
ACDF: The Basics
ACDF is used to treat pain caused by a herniated or ruptured
disc in the cervical spine. As we age, the fluid in our discs
diminishes, sometimes causing them to tear or rupture.
This can cause the nucleus pulposus (the jelly-like padding at
the center of the disc) to bulge and press on the outer wall of
the disc (the annulus). When this happens, it can create
pressure on nearby nerve roots or on the spine itself, causing
intense pain. :(
[img width=640
height=480]
HTML http://www.spinesurgery.com/wp-content/uploads/nerve-compression.jpg[/img]
;): RE, notice the Bone Spurs and Thickened Ligamentum Flavum
that contribute to stenosis in addition to the herniated disc
creating pressure.
I wish they would call the disc "hernia" something like an
aneurysm ([i]i.e. an excessive localized enlargement of an
artery caused by a weakening of the artery wall). In the case of
a disc, I would call it an excessive localized enlargement of
the disc caused by a weakening of the disc wall).
The "hernia" of the disc is the weakened wall of the disc. The
localized enlargement which results ALSO leaves behind a
localized REDUCTION of disc thickness. This causes pressure on
the spinal cord TWO ways. The first way is the bulge pushing on
the spinal cord. The second way is the reduced distance between
vertebrae from the slightly deflated disc compressing the spinal
cord.
[/i]
Ruptured or herniated discs are not only caused by degenerative
discs (spondylosis), however; this condition can also be brought
on by injury or excessive wear and tear, for example, from a
physically intense occupation.
This combination minimally invasive spine procedure has two
parts.
First, in the discectomy, the surgeon enters through a small
incision in the left side of the neck, and the affected disc is
removed. If there is additional tissue compressing the nerve,
this will also be removed to reduce pressure and create more
space.
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415203410.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415203440.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415203513.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415203540.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415203814.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415203931.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415204026.png[/img]
The second step is the fusion, which increases stability and
prevents the vertebrae from collapsing where the disc was
removed. By filling in the now-open space where the disc was
with a bone graft and a cage implant, the vertebrae can be
“fused” back together.[/SIZE]
[img width=640
height=380]
HTML http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/Images/PE-ACDF_Figure1b.jpg[/img]
[img width=640
height=360]
HTML https://www.spineinstitutenorthwest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/COLONIAL-300x210-ACDF.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415204105.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415204140.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415204440.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415204520.png[/img]
[IMG WIDTH=640
HEIGHT=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-160415204557.png[/img]
[size=12pt]This will create a bridge of bone that will, with
time, keep your cervical spine able to properly support itself
and bear normal loads.
[img width=640
height=430]
HTML http://www.medivisuals1.com/images/categories/MVI%20ACDF%20Page%20Image.jpg[/img]
Read on for more details on this minimally invasive spine
surgery, including what to expect before, during, and after
surgery, as well as potential risks and complications.
HTML https://www.spineinstitutenorthwest.com/treatments/endoscopic-microdiscectomy/anterior-cervical-decompression-fusion-surgery-acdf/
#Post#: 2994--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 18, 2015, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Knarf, UB and Ka,
Ahem! I must admit I am not an expert on good vibrations like
Buddhists of all stripes and yogis. Furthermore, I recognize
that you are not going to charge RE a nickel for giving him the
low down on how to make osteocytes be fruitful and multiply
while they dance to the "right" tune (fuse dem vertebraes
pronto!
HTML http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-022.gif<br
/>). :icon_mrgreen:
I have been doing some research to help RE and, of course,
further my sneaky agenda to get everybody to do everything they
can to adopt a CARING CAPACITY world view and shit can the
CARRYING CAPACITY (i.e scarcity equals value predatory
capitalist bullshit) destructive world view.
The [font=times new roman]Agelbert (Anthony Gonzalez Gelbert)
Institute for Advanced Caring Capacity Research into BIOSPHERE
CFS
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/34y5mvr.gif[/font]
has made
an amazing discovery. I am certain there is another Diner, not
included in the above names (who, for the moment shall remain
nameless ;D), who will back up this research anecdotally, if
not scientifically.
Rather than boring you with umpteen details about how specific
hertz heal HURTS, I will present two graphics and let you
vibrations experts take it from there.
The bottom line for RE is that he is going to need some
SUCCESSFUL bone fusion. If they do a bone graft and saw a piece
out of his pelvis to stick into his neck, there is ANOTHER place
on his body that he will need osteocyte growth and quick
healing.
Those pelvic procedures have a rep for causing enduring pain
:(. This is in contrast to the ACDF that usually just causes a
sore throat and difficult swallowing for a few days, [i]along
with total neck pain relief[/i]. Since he is a smoker (a KNOWN
cause of slow bone fusion or fusion failure complications), his
doctor will probably recommend a bone growth stimulator after
the ACDF procedure.
I have issues with that. I think you vibrations dudes may also
have issues with that too. Where am I going with this?
HTML http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6656.gif
I am
saying PLAINLY that there is MORE to that bone fusion and
healing than the vibrations themselves, even though they are, of
course, a vital part of the healing process.
A LIVING BEING must be generating those vibrations, IMHO, for
them to be truly efficacious
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif.
Human technology is, as
usual, a day late and a dollar short because of its STUPID,
IGNORANT, NON-SPIRITUAL, mechanistic reductionist world view of
cause and effect.
And ALSO, as usual, they want to charge an arm and a cervical
vertebrae ;D for the "high tech" CRAP they pass off as
"superior" to what living beings, NOT JUST HUMANS, give freely
in the service of LIFE.
Knarf, UB, and Ka, please shed some light on good vibrations. RE
needs our help.
[center][img width=640
height=380]
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-180415145419.png[/img][/center]
[center][img width=640
height=680]
HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_CjaPgf8YE4/U_LjWI0SYXI/AAAAAAAAKsk/X1gMwn5ujFY/s640/cats%2Bpurrs%2Bhealing%2Bpowers.png[/img][/center]
[center] [img width=100
height=65]
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/earthhug.gif[/img][/center]
[b]Agelbert NOTE: [/b]The above was posted on another forum. IF
you have some healing vibrations info or testimonial, pleas post
them here. Thank you.
#Post#: 2996--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 18, 2015, 6:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=knarf link=topic=4612.msg73282#msg73282
date=1429395040]
AG---Since I found out about RE's condition, I have been
traveling to Alaska to be with him. We call it throwing your
mind, and I am sure it works having lived with the Abbot for 10
years, and dealing with many, many people. We all have ESP and
can communicate no matter what the distance.
HTML http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_0293.gif
I
started recognizing the ability when I was about 20 years old.
When things I and friend would do in the nick of time just out
of instinct that kept us out of trouble. Then it started
happening with my children, especially my daughter. She had
moved to Illinois, and would start thinking i needed to call
her, I would pick up the phone and there was no dial tone, SHE
WAS ALREADY ON THE PHONE! This happened several times. Then I
developed this ESP with a friend who lived about 15 miles from
here. We would contact each other within minutes of feeling like
we needed to talk. But the biggest one was when I called my
father in 1980 just out of the blue. I hadn't talked to him for
about 6 months, and all of a sudden I had to call him. :emthup:
:
He answered the phone and was crying and drunk, and said he had
a shotgun and was going to kill himself, that his wife had left
him and he had nothing to live for. I talked him down a bit
:emthup: :emthup:, and then contacted friends in California that
lived near him, and told them to go pick up my Dad and get him
on a plane to Kansas City, where I would meet him. :emthup:
:emthup: :emthup: :icon_sunny:
He was so relieved that I cared so much to do this, that he
complied and I met him at KC, and he quit drinking and was
reunited with his wife. I hope RE is open to this type of
communication. It is beyond words and involved with listening
with top half of your head above your ears. Believe me I am
sending him ( YOU RE ) the very best vibes I know of, that
includes you AG, and Surly. :)
[/quote]
Knarf,
I certainly DO believe you. I have many ESP experiences myself
that convinced me decades ago of the reality of this
communication as well as the reality of "spooky action" (science
would call it quantum entanglement producing unexplained therap
eutic biochemical molecular activity ;D) Healing (Harming is
also possible through exactly the same mechanism in our
universe).
Thank you for your healing mind throwing. Unlike the scarcity
meme that corrupts this world, when we exert ourselves to heal,
the healing multiplies and produces healing side effects in many
others as well. There is no limit, as you know, to Caring
Capacity.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-210614220933.gif
In addition to all the above, please consider that owning a cat
might help your arthritis too! ;)
#Post#: 3055--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 30, 2015, 4:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Eddie link=topic=2932.msg74261#msg74261
date=1430426444]
Eddie, Matts is just defending his worship of science by
ridiculing miracles. I do not consider that disagreeing without
being disagreeable; I consider that snobbish baloney. And I was
not kidding when I said I felt sorry for him. I really do.
We all get that, believe me. But even though you have a strong
opinion, you don't turn nasty and vicious, like some I could
mention. That's what it takes to have forum like this. We all
have our belief systems, and they're all different. It takes a
certain amount of tolerance to have these discussions. I
appreciate that you can tolerate views that differ radically
from your own. I personally choose to believe that miracles are
possible, because we really do need a few, or we're gonna be
toast, I'm afraid. I pray for a big miracle every day.
Sincerely, I do.
[/quote]
Eddie,
Thank you. I try not to turn nasty and vicious, despite an
enormous desire to do so born of my frustration with fighting
status quo myths and distortions in this dystopia. However, if
raining on Matt's parade of scientific myths is being "nasty and
vicious", then I am guilty.
Thank you for your prayers. With enough of us doing just that,
RE may get his miracle.
Here is some background on the myth that modern medicine has
increased human longevity:
[font=times new roman]
Human Lifespans Nearly Constant for 2,000 Years[/font]
by Benjamin Radford, Live Science Contributor | August 21,
2009 11:26am ET
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, often the
harbinger of bad news about e. coli outbreaks and swine flu,
recently had some good news: The life expectancy of Americans is
higher than ever, at almost 78.
Discussions about life expectancy often involve how it has
improved over time. According to the National Center for Health
Statistics, life expectancy for men in 1907 was 45.6 years; by
1957 it rose to 66.4; in 2007 it reached 75.5. Unlike the most
recent increase in life expectancy (which was attributable
largely to a decline in half of the leading causes of death
including heart disease, homicide, and influenza), the increase
in life expectancy between 1907 and 2007 was largely due to a
decreasing infant mortality rate, which was 9.99 percent in
1907; 2.63 percent in 1957; and 0.68 percent in 2007.
But the inclusion of infant mortality rates in calculating life
expectancy creates the mistaken impression that earlier
generations died at a young age; Americans were not dying en
masse at the age of 46 in 1907. The fact is that the maximum
human lifespan — a concept often confused with "life expectancy"
— has remained more or less the same for thousands of years.
[b]The idea that our ancestors routinely died young (say, at age
40) has no basis in scientific fact.
[/b]Yet this myth is widespread, and repeated by both the public
and professionals. A few examples:
[quote]* An article on Egyptian pyramid builders in the November
2001 issue of "National Geographic" noted, "Despite the
availability of medical care the workers' lives were short. On
average a man lived 40 to 45 years, a woman 30 to 35."
* In a 2005 press release for the TV show "Nightline," a
producer wrote, "I am 42 years old. I live in a comfortable home
with my family…. I'm lucky. If I were in Sierra Leone, the
poorest country in Africa, chances are I'd be dead at my age.
The life expectancy there is 34 years of age."
* A Dec. 18, 2003, Reuters news story on the impact of AIDS in
Africa reported that "A baby girl born now in Japan could expect
to live 85 years, while one born in Sierra Leone probably would
not survive beyond 36." [/quote]
Such statements are completely wrong; most people in Sierra
Leone are not dropping dead at age 34. The problem is that
giving an "average age" at which people died tells us almost
nothing about the age at which an individual person living at
the time might expect to die.
Again, the high infant mortality rate skews the "life
expectancy" dramatically downward. If a couple has two children
and one of them dies in childbirth while the other lives to be
90, stating that on average the couple's children lived to be 45
is statistically accurate but meaningless. Claiming a low
average age of death due to high infant mortality is not the
same as claiming that the average person in that population will
die at that age.
Of course, infant mortality is only one of many factors that
influence life expectancy, including medicine, crime, and
workplace safety. But when it is calculated in, it often creates
confusion and myths.
When Socrates died at the age of 70 around 399 B.C., he did not
die of old age but instead by execution. It is ironic that
ancient Greeks lived into their 70s and older, while more than
2,000 years later modern Americans aren't living much longer.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif
Benjamin Radford is managing editor of the Skeptical Inquirer
science magazine. His books, films, and other projects can be
found on his website. His Bad Science column appears regularly
on LiveScience.
HTML http://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html
HTML http://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html
Agelbert NOTE: Eddie, if you can get Matts to back down on his
claim that modern medicine has given us longer lives, I will
admit that I misjudged him. His "reputable" sources are
mendacious double talkers in the service of TPTB, period. He
refuses to see that.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp
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#Post#: 3056--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: April 30, 2015, 5:33 pm
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Myths of Modern Medicine: The Increase in the Human Life Span.
Our longer *, healthier life span is due to a range of political
social reforms, as described below. Medical interventions and
commercial drug products had very little impact. [/size][/color]
* Agelbert NOTE: "LONGER" on the AVERAGE only (e.g. see
reduction in infant mortality); NOT in longevity of the aged.
For diagrams that illustrate the decline of infant mortality and
of the major infectious diseases see the article: Truth About
the Decline of the Infectious Diseases
HTML http://www.medicinekillsmillions.com/articles/truth-about-decline-of-the-infectious-diseases.html<br
/>
[quote]Medical products contributed little to increasing the
human life span: [/quote]
For instance, "Researchers John & Sonya McKinlay... showed that
medical intervention only accounted for between 1 & 3.5 per cent
of the increase in the average life span in the United States
since 1900." [1] (Yes you read that correctly, just one to three
point five percent.)
Similarly, in the words of Dr Richard Taylor, in Australia:
"almost 80 per cent of the reduction in infant mortality between
the 1880s & the 1970s occurred prior to the 1930s." [2]
That is, survival rates for infants increased steadily long
before the widespread use of pharmaceutical drugs or vaccines
designed to combat infectious diseases. Extensive vaccination
did not begin in Australia until the mid-1930s and for many
diseases did not commence until the 1950s and 1960s. This
pattern is duplicated across the developed world.
Social reforms brought about the increase in healthy human life
span:
In the words of medical historian Hans Ruesch: "All the medical
historians of our century ... agree that the decline of the
epidemics which had wrought havoc in the Middle Ages was not due
to the introduction of vaccination, but of hygiene, for they had
diminished long before large-scale inoculations had begun..."
[3]
Medical historians explain that the great advances in human
health like:
•the decline of the infectious diseases;
•the reductions in infant and maternal (birth) mortality rates;
and
•the resulting increase in overall human life span;
are due to reforms that improved our living conditions - via
improvements to our social infrastructure. [4,5,6,7]
Consider that almost everyone used to live surrounded by rubbish
and raw sewerage; ideal conditions for disease.
Humans (in developed countries) now live longer healthier lives
due to these kinds of reforms during the nineteenth and
twentieth centuries: [4,5,7]
•Access to clean fresh water supplies.
• Improved sanitation - flushing toilets and sewerage systems;
governments collecting and removing rubbish and waste from where
people live; burying the dead further away from where people
live.
•Access to better nutrition (like fruit and vegetables from
afar) due to improved trade, transport and refrigeration.
• Improved hygiene - people washing more often, particularly
their hands.
• Improved antisepsis by doctors and hospitals - when doctors
did not wash their hands or apply other meticulous antisepsis
they spread infections from person to person. Antisepsis
improved the survival rates for surgery.
• Improved maternal care - care for mothers who have given
birth: "Maternal mortality rates [death rates for mothers] were
lowest for home deliveries undertaken by trained and supervised
midwives ... In contrast ... maternal mortality rates were very
high ... where most deliveries were performed by physicians...
due to unnecessary interference." [8]
• Improved housing conditions - so that less people were
confined together in unhealthy housing conditions.
• Improved working conditions - shorter working hours, more
rest-time, laws and regulations that reduced health hazards.
• Innovations like sickness insurance legislation led to
improved care for mothers and infants. [9]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Dr Robert Sharpe: [quote]"Mortality for virtually all the
infections was declining before, and in most cases long before,
specific therapies became available... The impetus to better
health from the mid nineteenth century onwards can therefore be
directly traced to public health measures and social legislation
that improved the living standards of working people... Higher
wages and welfare benefits made it possible for the poor to eat
properly and public health measures radically improved
conditions in the densely-populated urban areas, particularly
with the provision of clean water supplies, sanitation, sewerage
and new housing... Susceptibility to the infections diminished
radically as nutrition, housing, hygiene and general living
conditions improved..." [5]
[/quote]
[quote]"It is a widely held fallacy that mortality from
infectious disease only commenced to fall with the advent of
modern [pharmaceutical] agents." Ramsay & Emond, Infectious
Diseases. [6] [/quote]
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
[quote]
In sum,[i] the commercial pharmaceutical industry does not
deserve the credit for benefits which came from social and
political reforms. [/i][/quote]
Most medical interventions lack scientific evidence:
In closing, the British Medical Journal reports: "Only about 15%
of medical interventions are supported by solid scientific
evidence... This is partly because only 1% of the articles in
medical journals are scientifically sound and partly because
many treatments have never been assessed at all". [10]
Related Articles:
•A History of Western Medicine: From ancient Greece to modern
times ... a summary of how human medicine: i) progressed due to
scientific clinical observations of humans; and ii) was stalled
and led astray for millenia due to misleading results from
vivisection ... excerpts from a book by the medical historian
Hans Ruesch.
•Myths of Modern Medicine: The Decline of the Infectious
Diseases happened before commercial vaccines, immunisations and
drugs were develeped for them. This page contains numerous
graphs and diagrams that illustrate the statistics and trends.
•Doctors warn about the dangers of Vaccination-Immunisation.
They explain how vaccines may not protect and how they could
cause serious illnesses. Also, a contract for your doctor to
sign before vaccination, in order that they reimburse you for
any damages.
•The Decline of Smallpox in Great Britain - Vaccination in
Doubt. It includes a critique of Edward Jenner's book and
theories.
International-Medical-Council-on-Vaccination-Doctors-Against-Imm
unisation
For information on studies that show how modern medicine is a
leading cause of human death and injury, see:
•Death By Medicine - studies in science journals reveal that
medical treatment may be the leading cause of death in the USA
•Why Do Pharmaceutical Drugs Injure & Kill So Many People? Are
we the real guinea-pigs?
References:
[1] J.B. McKinlay & S. McKinlay, Health & Society, Millibank
Memorial Fund, 1977, pp.405-28 (as cited in The Pharmaceutical
Drug Racket Part 1, CAFMR, 1993 p.7, a two part 40-page booklet
that exposes the drug industry; see
HTML http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/index.html
for
excerpts).
[2] Dr. Richard Taylor, Medicine out of Control, 1979 p.9, Sun
books.
[3] Hans Ruesch, Slaughter of the Innocent, CIVITAS
Publications, Hartsdale NY, 1991, page 194.
[4] T. McKeown, The Role of Medicine, Blackwell Scientific
Publications, 1979; T. McKeown and C.R. Lowe, An Introduction to
Social Medicine, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1976 (both
cited in The Pharmaceutical Drug Racket Part 1, Jon Lesso,
CAFMR, 1993 p.7, a two part 40-page booklet that exposes the
drug industry; see
HTML http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/index.html
for
excerpts).
[5] Robert Sharpe, The Cruel Deception, Thorsons Publishing
Group, Wellingborough, U.K. 1988, chapter 1, p.24
[6] A.M. Ramsay and R.T. Emond, Infectious Diseases, Heinemann,
1967.
[7] Hans Ruesch, Slaughter of the Innocent, CIVITAS
Publications, Hartsdale NY, 1991, pp. 147-287.
[8] Irvine Loudon, "Maternal mortality in the past and its
relevance to developing countries today", The American Journal
of Clinical Nutrition, July 2000 vol. 72 no. 1 241S-246S.
[9] John Bowblis, "The Decline in Infant Death Rates, 1878–1913:
The Role of Early Sickness Insurance Programs", The Journal of
Economic History (2010),70:pp 221-232
[10] Richard Smith, editor, "Where is the wisdom?... The poverty
of medical evidence", British Medical Journal, October 1991, Vol
303, 198-99,
HTML http://www.bmj.com/highwire/filestream/334291/field_highwire_article_pdf/0.pdf
HTML http://www.medicinekillsmillions.com/articles/medical_history_truth_about_human_lifespan_increase.htm
Agelbert NOTE: So how come so many people swear by our "modern"
medical/pharmaceutical system? How come so many people actually
DO get healed by these questionable and mostly UNscientific
therapies? FAITH! IOW, the FAITH that people have in the medical
system is what heals most people while the medical system
STUDIOUSLY tries to undermine ANY FAITH except that in the
medical system because of YOU CANNOT BILL PEOPLE FOR FAITH:
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height=230]
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[center]Medical system fat cats PROTECT their food bowl
;).[/center]
#Post#: 3059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Human Life is Fragile but EVERY Life is Valuable
By: AGelbert Date: May 1, 2015, 6:36 pm
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MattS is saying by his chart that Life Expectancy at Birth is
going up. He is right. AG is saying Life Expectancy at aged 7-10
is going down. He hasn't charted it, but he might be right. How
can both be true? Because the first year of life is when people
are at the highest risk of birth defects showing up, and are
generally less resilient to disease and trauma (birth itself is
often traumatic). Something like this effect extends to age 11,
that is the chances of dying in the current year goes down until
age 10-11, and then starts going up again.
So which is the right measure to use to substantiate the claim
that modern medical intervention does/doesn't extend your life?
Well, at what age does modern medical intervention start? At
birth, of course.
Now to prove something like this, you really need to be a lot
more specific in your statements.
1. You need to state which population you are considering - the
US is NOT the only country in the world, despite its
exceptionalism, but let's consider the US anyway.
2. You need to state the time range over which you are
considering "going up/down" - since medical procedures have been
used to attempt to prolong life as far back as the data goes, we
need ALL the data available.
The data is presented in Life Tables for each year. The US Life
Table for 2010 is available at
ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/Publications/NVSR/6
3_07/Table01.xlsx
HTML http://
ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/Publications/NVSR/6
3_07/Table01.xlsx
from which you really only need one data point - Expectation of
life at age (x) for Age = 0 - 1, but you can choose some other
age if you want.
There are also Abridged Life Tables published, where the "x"s
are grouped in five year brackets, or you can compose your own
age bracket (like 7 - 10), but this is not just simple addition.
7 - 10 is an odd sort of group to choose - I suspect it would be
influenced by boys killing themselves by doing silly things like
falling out of trees or drowning.
Then you download all the life tables going back as far as you
can, to collect the corresponding set of data points over the
years, and then chart them.
Fortunately some analysis has already been done for you by the
demographers:
HTML http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_07.pdf
HTML http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_07.pdf
In 2010, the overall expectation of life at birth was 78.7
years. Between 2009 and 2010, life expectancy at birth increased
for all groups considered. Life expectancy increased for both
males (from 76.0 to 76.2) and females (80.9 to 81.0) and for the
white population (78.8 to 78.9), the black population (74.7 to
75.1), the Hispanic population (81.1 to 81.4), the non-Hispanic
white population (78.7 to 78.8), and the non-Hispanic black
population (74.4 to 74.7).
AG, by picking the unusual age bracket 7 - 10, seems to be
selecting the data that minimises the "child effect", and
maximises the "adult effect". This is statistically valid, but
is a common way statisticians bend things to support a point.
Anyhow, it has been admitted by everyone that antisepsis
intervention does make a difference (it saved my life at my last
hospital visit), so the argument seems to be that only SOME
interventions make things worse. This argument can only get
somewhere if you look for as many points of agreement as
possible, and stop shouting "I'm right!" and "You just don't get
it !" at each other.
Palloy said, [quote]This argument can only get somewhere if you
look for as many points of agreement as possible ...[/quote]
True, IF we can AGREE on what a "REPUTABLE" source of empirical
data is. Can you trust the World Health Organization (WHO) to
tell you what the number of deaths from radiation caused
sickness and birth defects are? NO. WHY? Because in the late
1950's they were GAGGED by the Atomic Energy Commission
(prohibiting publishing epidemiological studies about radiation
effects without the "approval" of the [s]fox in the henhouse[/s]
AEC). The AEC morphed into the NRC which continues to spread the
nuclear happy talk agnotology far and wide in "REPUTABLE"
publications. YOU, as a mathematician, are hamstrung by mens rea
profit over planet folks entrenched in the status quo BECAUSE
you have NO OTHER DATA SOURCE. Of course data can be
manipulated. But your assumption that the original "empirical"
data was not massaged is NOT realistic.
Which means:
A) My overall point is NOT the cohort in life expectancy; it is
my healthy distrust of most of the data.
B) There IS NO OBJECTIVE MATHEMATICAL standard that you can use
to measure who is right here.
C) There is NO common ground between MattS and myself on what
"Reputable" empirical data is.
D) This is not really an argument about life expectancy anyway;
it's an argument about competing world views that are REALLY
incompatible because one world view STRESSES that, sans
measurable empirical data, no phenomenon is REAL, while the
other STRESSES that, even though it is impossible to measure the
response of biochemical mechanisms to the metaphysical activity,
said metaphysical power is MORE powerful and MORE real than
measurable phenomenon.
The best I could say is that the 3D universe is a subset of the
overall universe. Hence, there is SOME predictability that
science can work on and study to obtain improved health care.
But that in no way provides an excuse to claim "miracles" are
NOT really miracles because ALL have a cause and effect
empirically measurable source. And, just you wait, soon we'll
have it all figured out. That's your position, isn't it Palloy?
IOW, YOU have FAITH in your empirical world WITHOUT all the
answers. Hell, you don't even want to admit the published data
by TPTB is slanted six ways from sunday! You don't want to
admit that THAT is the NORM, not the exception to the rule.
Neither does MattS.
And it's a never ending story because I finger the NRC and you
will dig up some data by somebody here or there that is
"irrefutable" followed by me digging up some that I claim is
"irrefutable" and so on and so forth. AT NO POINT in that
exchange will you ADMIT to the POSSIBILITY that "irrefutability
through empirical evidence" is IMPOSSIBLE in human biochemical
events involving spontaneous healing even if I provide a laundry
list of documented events of this nature. YOU and Matts will
ALWAYS fall back on the "Well, someday we are going find out!
That's what SCIENCE is about! So There!". ::)
But I am supposed to **** can my FAITH because a "miraculous
event" cannot be measured. I don't think so. ;D
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