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       #Post#: 5293--------------------------------------------------
       Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: June 17, 2016, 2:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]Scientists using sunlight, water to produce [b]renewable
       hydrogen power[/b][/center]
       June 16, 2016
       [move]Scientists using sunlight, water to produce renewable
       hydrogen power [/move]
       UI researchers have developed a small solar-powered
       electrochemical device that can help make energy using sunlight
       and water. Credit: Syed Mubeen.
       University of Iowa researchers are working with a
       California-based startup company to make clean energy from
       sunlight and any source of water.
       The university recently renewed a one-year research agreement to
       further develop the technology with HyperSolar, a company that
       aims to commercialize low-cost renewable hydrogen.
       Hydrogen power is arguably one of the cleanest and greenest
       energy sources because when it produces energy, the final
       byproduct is water instead of carbon emissions. Hydrogen power
       also can be stored in a fuel cell, making it more reliable than
       traditional solar cells or solar panels, which need regular
       sunlight to remain "on."
       HyperSolar's lead scientist, Syed Mubeen, a chemical engineering
       professor at the UI, says although hydrogen is the most abundant
       element in the universe, the amount of pure hydrogen in the
       Earth's atmosphere is very low (about 0.00005 percent), so it
       must be produced artificially.
       Currently, most hydrogen power is made from fossil fuels
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/126fs2277341.gif
       in a chemical
       process called steam reforming, which emits carbon dioxide. Even
       though the end product is hydrogen, its inputs make it much less
       environmentally friendly and sustainable.
       Hydrogen also can be made using electrolysis, which requires
       electricity and highly purified water to split water molecules
       into hydrogen and oxygen. Although this is a sustainable process
       (assuming the electricity is produced from a renewable energy
       source), the cost of materials associated with the system are
       expensive—a major barrier to the affordable production of
       renewable hydrogen.
       "Developing clean energy systems is a goal worldwide," Mubeen
       says. "Currently, we understand how clean energy systems such as
       solar cells, wind turbines, et cetera, work at a high level of
       sophistication. The real challenge going forward is to develop
       inexpensive clean energy systems that can be cost competitive to
       fossil fuel systems and be adopted globally and not just in the
       developed countries."
       With HyperSolar, Mubeen and his team at the UI's Optical Science
       and Technology Center are developing a more cost-effective and
       environmentally friendly way to manufacture hydrogen by drawing
       inspiration from plants. So far, the researchers have created a
       small solar-powered electrochemical device that can be placed in
       any type of water, including seawater and wastewater. When
       sunlight shines through the water and hits the solar device, the
       photon energy in sunlight takes the water (a lower energy state)
       and converts it to hydrogen (a higher energy state), where it
       can be stored like a battery. The energy is harvested when the
       hydrogen is converted back into its lower energy state: water.
       This is similar to what plants do using photosynthesis, during
       which plants use photons from the sun to convert water and
       carbon dioxide into carbohydrates—some of which are stored in
       fruits and roots for later use.
       Mubeen says his team is currently working to lower costs even
       further and to make their process more robust so it can be
       produced on a mass scale. That way, it eventually could be used
       as renewable electricity or to power hydrogen fuel cell
       vehicles.
       "Although H2 can be used in many forms, the immediate
       possibility of this renewable H2 would be for use in fuel cells
       to generate electricity or react with CO2 to form liquid fuels
       like methanol for the transportation sector," he says. "If one
       could develop these systems at costs competitive  ;) to fossil
       fuel systems , then it would be a home run."
       Explore further: Research sets new record for generation of
       fuels from sunlight
  HTML http://phys.org/news/2015-08-fuels-sunlight.html
       Provided by: University of Iowa search and more info website
  HTML http://phys.org/news/2016-06-scientists-sunlight-renewable-hydrogen-power.html#jCp
       Agelbert NOTE: Did you read that bit about how most hydrogen is
       made from fossil fuels with steam forming? Here is something you
       should know about steam forming, from an ERoEi standpoint:
       --- Quote ---
       > Hydrogen can also be extracted from hydrocarbons by reforming.
       This chemical process is, in principle, an energy transfer
       process. The HHV energy contained in the original substance can
       be transferred to the HHV energy of hydrogen.
       >
       > Theoretically  ;D, no external energy is needed to convert a
       hydrogen-rich energy carrier like methane (CH4) or methanol
       (CH3OH) into hydrogen by autothermal steam reforming.
       >
       > But in reality  ;D, thermal losses cannot be avoided and the
       HHV energy content of the original hydrocarbon fuel always
       exceeds the HHV energy contained in the generated hydrogen.
       >
       > The efficiency of hydrogen production by reforming is about
       90%. Consequently, more CO2 is released by this "detour" process
       than by direct use of the hydrocarbon precursors. But no obvious
       advantages can be derived with respect to well-to-wheel
       efficiency and overall CO2 emissions.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML http://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/hyd_economy_bossel_eliasson.pdf
       The only reason electrolysis, a truly clean way to generate
       Hydrogen, is more expensive than steam forming, is because of
       fossil fuel subsidies, NOT because of Energy Return on Energy
       Invested (ERoEI) thermodynamics.
       If the fossil fuel direct and indirect subsidies were eliminated
       (even excluding the pollution costs), fossil fuel systems would
       not be cost competitive with ANY Renewable Energy system.
       Hydrogen power just needs the subsidy push that the fossil fuel
       industry has always used to make its products be artificially
       cost competitive with Renewable Energy technologies and
       products, such as Ethanol from biomass.
       In addition to Hydrogen production, the fossil fuel industry
       also produces about 5% of the world's ethanol. This ethanol
       takes far more energy to produce than biomass ethanol. But once
       again, the unwarranted subsidies of the fossil fuel industry
       enable it to produce a "cost competitive" ethanol, unjustified
       from a thermodynamiics standpoint.
       Biomass ethanol, unlike fossil fuel industry ethanol, is
       justified from a thermodynamics standpoint. Producing hydrogen
       or ethanol using fossil fuels is totally unjustified.
       Subsidies for clean hydrogen production, like the photon
       mediated production portrayed in the above article or
       electrolysis and biomass based ethanol production are justified
       when all the energy and pollution costs are considered.
       --- Quote ---
       > Between 1968 and 2000, oil companies received subsidies of
       $149.6 billion, compared to ethanol’s paltry $116.6 million. The
       subsidies alcohol did receive have worked extremely well in
       bringing maturity to the industry. Farmer-owned cooperatives now
       produce the majority of alcohol fuel in the U.S. Farmer-owners
       pay themselves premium prices for their corn and then pay
       themselves a dividend on the alcohol profit.
       >
       > The increased economic activity derived from alcohol fuel
       production has turned out to be crucial to the survival of
       noncorporate farmers, and the amounts of money they spend in
       their communities on goods and services and taxes for schools
       have been much higher in areas with an ethanol plant. Plus,
       between $3 and $6 in tax receipts are generated for every dollar
       of ethanol subsidy. The rate of return can be much higher in
       rural communities, where re-spending within the community
       produces a multiplier factor of up to 22 times for each alcohol
       fuel subsidy dollar.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML http://www.permaculture.com/node/490
       We need fossil fuels like a hole in our wallet.
       [center]
  HTML http://gofossilfree.org/uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/03/breakfree2.png[/center]
       #Post#: 5328--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: June 19, 2016, 6:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]clean hydrogen
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp<br
       />and rechargable zinc batteries
  HTML http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg<br
       />
       [/center]
       June 17, 2016
       [center]
  HTML http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2016/stanfordrese.png[/center]
       [center]Stanford researchers find new ways to make clean
       hydrogen and rechargable zinc batteries
       Stanford engineers created arrays of silicon nanocones to trap
       sunlight and improve the performance of solar cells made of
       bismuth vanadate (1&#956;m=1,000 nanometers). Credit: Wei Chen
       and Yongcai Qiu, Stanford [/center]
       A Stanford University research lab has developed new
       technologies to tackle two of the world's biggest energy
       challenges - clean fuel for transportation and grid-scale energy
       storage.
       The researchers described their findings in two studies
       published this month in the journals Science Advances and Nature
       Communications.
       [center]Hydrogen fuel[/center]
       Hydrogen fuel has long been touted as a clean alternative to
       gasoline. Automakers began offering hydrogen-powered cars to
       American consumers last year, but only a handful have sold,
       mainly because hydrogen refueling stations are few and far
       between.
       "Millions of cars could be powered by clean hydrogen fuel if it
       were cheap and widely available," said Yi Cui, an associate
       professor of materials science and engineering at Stanford.
       Unlike gasoline-powered vehicles, which emit carbon dioxide
       (CO2),[b] hydrogen cars themselves are emissions free.
       [/b]Making hydrogen fuel, however, is not emission free: today,
       making most hydrogen fuel involves natural gas in a process that
       releases CO2 into the atmosphere. *
       To address the problem, Cui and his colleagues have focused on
       photovoltaic water splitting. This emerging technology consists
       of a solar-powered electrode immersed in water. When sunlight
       hits the electrode, it generates an electric current that splits
       the water into its constituent parts, hydrogen and oxygen.
       Finding an affordable way to produce clean hydrogen from water
       has been a challenge. Conventional solar electrodes made of
       silicon quickly corrode when exposed to oxygen, a key byproduct
       of water splitting. Several research teams have reduced
       corrosion by coating the silicon with iridium and other precious
       metals.
       Writing in the June 17 edition of Science Advances, Cui and his
       colleagues presented a new approach using bismuth vanadate, an
       inexpensive compound that absorbs sunlight and generates modest
       amounts of electricity.
       "Bismuth vanadate has been widely regarded as a promising
       material for photoelectrochemical water splitting, in part
       because of its low cost and high stability against corrosion,"
       said Cui, an associate professor of photon science at the SLAC
       National Accelerator Laboratory. "However, the performance of
       this material remains well below its theoretical
       solar-to-hydrogen conversion efficiency."
       
       Bismuth vanadate absorbs light but is a poor conductor of
       electricity. To carry a current, a solar cell made of bismuth
       vanadate must be sliced very thin, 200 nanometers or less,
       making it virtually transparent. As a result, visible light that
       could be used to generate electricity simply passes through the
       cell.
       To capture sunlight before it escapes, Cui's team turned to
       nanotechnology. The researchers created microscopic arrays
       containing thousands of silicon nanocones, each about 600
       nanometers tall.
       [center]
  HTML http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2016/1-stanfordrese.png[/center]
       [center]Left (a): A conventional zinc (Zn) battery short
       circuits when dendrites growing on the zinc anode make contact
       with the metal cathode. Right (b): Stanford scientists
       redesigned the battery using plastic and carbon insulators to
       prevent zinc dendrites from reaching the cathode. Credit: Shougo
       Higashi [/center]
       "Nanocone structures have shown a promising light-trapping
       capability over a broad range of wavelengths," Cui explained.
       "Each cone is optimally shaped to capture sunlight that would
       otherwise pass through the thin solar cell."
       In the experiment, Cui and his colleagues deposited the nanocone
       arrays on a thin film of bismuth vanadate. Both layers were then
       placed on a solar cell made of perovskite, another promising
       photovoltaic material.
       When submerged, the three-layer tandem device immediately began
       splitting water at a solar-to-hydrogen conversion efficiency of
       6.2 percent, already matching the theoretical maximum rate for a
       bismuth vanadate cell.
       "The tandem solar cell continued generating hydrogen for more
       than 10 hours, an indication of good stability," said Cui, a
       principal investigator at the Stanford Institute for Materials
       and Energy Sciences. "Although the efficiency we demonstrated
       was only 6.2 percent, our tandem device has room for significant
       improvement in the future."
       Rechargeable zinc battery
       In a second study published in the June 6 edition of Nature
       Communications, Cui and Shougo Higashi, a visiting scientist
       from Toyota Central R&D Labs Inc., proposed a new battery design
       that could help solve the problem of grid-scale energy storage.
       "Solar and wind farms should be able to provide around-the-clock
       energy for the electric grid, even when there's no sunlight or
       wind," Cui said. "That will require inexpensive batteries and
       other low-cost technologies big enough to store surplus clean
       energy for use on demand."
       In the study, Cui, Higashi and their co-workers designed a novel
       battery with electrodes made of zinc and nickel, inexpensive
       metals with the potential for grid-scale storage.
       A variety of zinc-metal batteries are available commercially,
       but few are rechargeable, because of tiny fibers called
       dendrites that form on the zinc electrode during charging.
       Theses dendrites can grow until they finally reach the nickel
       electrode, causing the battery to short circuit and fail.
       The research team solved the dendrite problem by simply
       redesigning the battery. Instead of having the zinc and nickel
       electrodes face one another, as in a conventional battery, the
       researchers separated them with a plastic insulator and wrapped
       a carbon insulator around the edges of the zinc electrode.
       "With our design, zinc ions are reduced and deposited on the
       exposed back surface of the zinc electrode during charging,"
       said Higashi, lead author of the study. "Therefore, even if zinc
       dendrites form, they will grow away from the nickel electrode
       and will not short the battery."
       To demonstrate stability, the researchers successfully charged
       and discharged the battery more than 800 times without shorting.
       "Our design is very simple and could be applied to a wide range
       of metal batteries," Cui said.
       Explore further: Researchers create a low-cost, long-lasting
       water splitter made of silicon and nickel
       More information: Efficient solar-driven water splitting by
       nanocone BiVO4-perovskite tandem cells, Science Advances, DOI:
       10.1126/sciadv.1501764
       Journal reference: Science Advances search and more info website
       Nature Communications search and more info website
       Provided by: Stanford University search and more info website
  HTML http://phys.org/news/2016-06-ways-hydrogen-rechargable-zinc-batteries.html
  HTML http://phys.org/news/2016-06-ways-hydrogen-rechargable-zinc-batteries.html
       * This is known as Steam Forming and has a NEGATIVE ERoEI. It is
       stupid but fossil fuel industry subsidies make it "cost
       effective", just like the insanely stupid negative ERoEI
       activity of making about 5% of the world's Ethanol using fossil
       fuel feed stock.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183337.bmp
       I applaud the new technology discussed in the above article.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png<br
       />But expect the fossil fuel industry to make their typical
       claim
       that "it's a great idea, but not ready for prime time
  HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9HT4xZyDmh4/TOHhxzA0wLI/AAAAAAAAEUk/oeHDS2cfxWQ/s200/Smiley_Angel_Wings_Halo.jpg"<br
       />as an excuse to continue to justify the polluting gasoline
       powered status quo as a "necessary" evil (when they aren't
       touting it as the savior of humanity, that is).
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013200859.png
       The fact is that Hydrogen fuel for vehicles has been ready for
       prime time for over 50 YEARS.
  HTML http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif
       Mormon farmers
       have been running their tractors on it for at least that long.
       While it is true that storing hydrogen, AS A GAS, is tough and
       energy intensive, "storing" it as WATER, to be used when you
       need it for a few hours from a solar powered electrolyzer, is
       old hat, as long as the sun comes out that day. ;D
       It's BULLSHIT to claim well insulated low temperature hydrogen
       fuel tanks could not have been mass produced and economically
       iincorporated into our vehicles by a country that pioneered the
       technology for ICBMS, hydrogen bombs and the space shuttle.
       And furthermore, if the nukers had allowed a certain isotope of
       hydrogen to be used to produce a hydride that could economically
       store hydrogen gas (at room temperature with zero leakage) in
       SCUBA tank like bottles in a vehicle, we could all be running
       hydrogen collected from a home solar powered electrolyzer in our
       cars. A catalytic agent releases the gas from the hydride
       gradually as needed to run your engine. And, by the way, your
       risk of explosion and fire with this system is far lower than
       with a gasoline tank.
       It didn't happen because all those terrorists among us would run
       out and make hydrogen bombs from heavy water...  Fossil fuel
       industry fuel product profits from 42% PLUS of their refinery
       CRAP had, and has, nothing whatsoever to do with it.  LOL!
       #Post#: 6757--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: March 26, 2017, 12:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200317134631.png
       [center]Largest ‘artificial sun’
  HTML http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/465/465823jzy0y15obs.gif<br
       />switched on in Germany to research hydrogen
       production[/center]
       Tibi Puiu&#61463; March 23, 2017
       [center]
  HTML http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Synlight-German-Aerospace-Center-Institute-For-Solar-Research.jpg[/center]
       [center]Synlight-German-Aerospace-Center-Institute-For-Solar-Research
       Credit: DLR[/center]
       This week, the German Aerospace Center (DLR) Institute for Solar
       Research turned on the Synlight project, an array of 149 huge
       spotlights. Together, these spotlights converge on a single
       20-by-20 centimeter (8×8 inch) spot onto which it projects
       10,000 times the amount of solar radiation that would have
       normally shined on the surface. The researchers call it the
       largest ‘artificial sun’, though we shouldn’t confuse it with
       fusion energy projects which would be more deserving of the
       title.
  HTML http://www.haleakalasolar.com/images/index-infobox2.jpg
       A huge
       lightbulb
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183515.bmp
       The setup is comprised of xenon short-arc lamps, which you’d
       typically find in a modern cinema, arranged in a honeycomb
       structure in Juelich, just 30 kilometers (19 miles) west of
       Cologne. When the lights are turned on, an immense amount of
       power is concentrated on a small surface, just enough to heat it
       in excess of 3,000 degrees Celsius.
       Unlike the sun, however, this project doesn’t create it energy.
       Rather, it eats it with a voracious appetite. Turning on the
       lights for four hours consumers as much electricity as a
       four-person household does in a whole year. It might help
       generate energy, though.
       The goal of the project is to better understand solar radiation
       dynamics to find out how to maximally exploit solar energy. For
       instance, a setup similar to Synlight only comprised of mirrors
       could be used to generate renewable liquid hydrogen, a fuel
       which emits zero emissions when combusted. Right now, 99% of all
       man-made hydrogen is derived from fossil fuels through an energy
       and carbon intensive process called methane reforming.
       Of course, hydrogen by itself is not without problems. Storing
       it can be a hassle because it’s the lightest and smallest
       molecule and just escapes most containers. It’s density is very
       small which can also be problematic. However, combining it with
       carbon monoxide results in eco-friendly kerosene for the
       aviation industry.
       ALSO READ:  Record-breaking silicon solar cell efficiency of
       26.6% demonstrated by Japanese researchers, very close to the
       theoretical limit
  HTML http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/renewable-energy-ecology/solar-cell-close-ideal-limit/<br
       /> :o
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/za4.gif
       
       Once scientists master hydrogen production with Synlight, they
       can scale the system tenfold — all powered by the sun, not
       electricity, this time.
       The DLR labs are busy with other interesting projects. One of
       them involves creating artificial comets made of water, rock
       dust, and soot, all locked in a vacuum chamber that, of course,
       contains an artificial sun.
  HTML http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/artificial-sun-germany-0423423/
       #Post#: 8485--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: November 30, 2017, 1:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]Zero-Emission Hydrogen-Powered Ship Delivered in Step
       Toward Cleaner Cargo[/center]
       November 29, 2017 by Bloomberg
       [center]
  HTML http://3kbo302xo3lg2i1rj8450xje.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/cmb-hydroville-3-2.jpg[/center]
       [center][center]Hydroville is now the first passenger shuttle
       that has received a Class’ approval to burn diesel :P   and
       hydrogen
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png<br
       />in its 2 combustion engines[/center][/center]
       [center]
  HTML http://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2012/8/14/1344970546338-awesome_mc_ht_smiley.gif[/center]
       SNIPPET:
       International Commitment
       --- Quote ---
       > “There’s a very strong commitment to decarbonize shipping from
       powerful countries such as China, Japan, and a group of European
       nations,” said Tristan Smith, a lecturer at University College
       London’s energy institute and a former naval architect.
       “Hydrogen is one of the most cost effective ways to do this.
       It’s proven, it works in the energy system and it’s easy to
       combust in ships.”
  HTML http://cliparts.co/cliparts/Big/Egq/BigEgqBMT.png
       
       --- End Quote ---
       Full article:
  HTML http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/
  HTML http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/
       #Post#: 8492--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: December 1, 2017, 2:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: K-Dog link ---
       >
       > [quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg141712#msg141712
       date=1512071599]
       > [center]Zero-Emission Hydrogen-Powered Ship Delivered in Step
       Toward Cleaner Cargo[/center]
       >
       > November 29, 2017 by Bloomberg
       >
       >
       [center]
  HTML http://3kbo302xo3lg2i1rj8450xje.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/cmb-hydroville-3-2.jpg[/center]
       > [center][center]Hydroville is now the first passenger shuttle
       that has received a Class’ approval to burn diesel :P   and
       hydrogen
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png<br
       />in its 2 combustion engines[/center][/center]
       > [center]
  HTML http://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2012/8/14/1344970546338-awesome_mc_ht_smiley.gif[/center]
       >
       > SNIPPET:
       >
       > International Commitment
       >
       > [quote]“There’s a very strong commitment to decarbonize
       shipping from powerful countries such as China, Japan, and a
       group of European nations,” said Tristan Smith, a lecturer at
       University College London’s energy institute and a former naval
       architect. “Hydrogen is one of the most cost effective ways to
       do this. It’s proven, it works in the energy system and it’s
       easy to combust in ships.”
  HTML http://cliparts.co/cliparts/Big/Egq/BigEgqBMT.png
       
       --- End Quote ---
       Full article:
  HTML http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/
  HTML http://gcaptain.com/zero-emission-hydrogen-powered-ship-delivered-in-step-toward-cleaner-cargo/
       [/quote]
       How do they make the hydrogen?  How much energy does it take to
       make it?
       [/quote]
       [right]
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/bc3.gif[/right]
       Agelbert NOTE: Resorting to fallacious debating techniques, like
       the one I just got sniped with when Engineer K-Dog "innocently"
       asked about how hydrogen is made, is fun if the person spewing
       the clever bullshit is only interested in attacking the
       messenger, not debating the message. K-Dog knows all the
       industrial techniques used to make hydrogen and cherry picks the
       most energy intensive forms, while totally excluding the ones
       that I HAVE DISCUSSED HERE OFTEN, WITH EVIDENCE AND DATA, just
       to make a "greater thermodynamic efficiency" case for fossil
       fuel CRAP. He is so repetitive and predictable as to be boring.
  HTML http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6961.gif
       K-Dog is
       smart and I share many views with him. But he is adamantly
       incorrigible in his insistance that Renewable Energy cannot
       replace fossil fuels OR prevent the collapse of human
       civilization. Perhaps he is right. But I don't think so.
       #Post#: 10033--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: June 24, 2018, 3:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: azozeo link ---
       >
       > [quote author=agelbert link=topic=559.msg156481#msg156481
       date=1529785581]
       > GreenCarReports
       >
       > [center]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-230115195735.png[/center]
       > [center]Audi CEO arrested in Germany over diesel scandal
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png
       > [/center]
       >
       > By Eric C. Evarts
       >
       > Jun 18, 2018
       >
       > VW's diesel scandal is far from over.
       >
       > In the latest move on the political chessboard, German
       authorities arrested the head of VW's luxury division Audi at
       his home Monday morning according to a Reuters report. German
       authorities cited concerns that Stadler could obstruct their
       ongoing investigation into the diesel emissions cheating
       scandal. A German judge ordered Stadler held in custody to
       prevent him from obstructing or hindering the diesel
       investigation, the report said.
       >
       > Audi and VW confirmed the arrest to Reuters and noted that
       under German law Stadler is presumed innocent unless proved
       otherwise.
       >
       > Audi admitted two months after VW did that it had also
       installed cheat device software on its cars to fool emissions
       testing equipment to deliver clean readings on tests even though
       its cars actually emitted as much as 35 times more pollution
       than allowed on the road.
       >
       > Although most of the attention to VW's emissions scandal has
       been focused on the U.S., where eight company officials have
       been charged, investigations are also ongoing in Germany, where
       the cars also failed to meet on-road emissions standards.
       >
       > CHECK OUT: Audi e-Tron Electric Car To Offer 150-kW Quick
       Charging Sites
  HTML https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100969_audi-e-tron-electric-car-to-offer-150-kw-quick-charging-sites
       >
       > Stadler, the former chief of staff to VW's powerful former
       chairman Ferdinand Piech, had been handed the post as head of
       Audi in an effort to promote the automaker's transition to
       electric-car production. His arrest is likely to throw those
       restructuring efforts at VW into turmoil.
       >
       > Audi announced in 2015 that it would develop a new
       all-electric SUV, the e-tron, and work to build a network of
       fast chargers around the United States to support the car. As
       part of a consent decree approved by the court, VW agreed to
       form a new division, Electrify America, to build a $2 billion
       network of fast chargers around the United States, and the Audi
       plan was rolled into that effort. Electrify America has now
       opened its first locations in the U.S. and laid out its plans
       for further
       >
       >
  HTML https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117271_audi-ceo-arrested-in-germany-over-diesel-scandal
  HTML https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117271_audi-ceo-arrested-in-germany-over-diesel-scandal
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Thanks for the update on diesel-gate.
       I'm interested to see what Audi brings to the dance with the
       H-Tron concept.
       [/quote]
       You are welcome, Az. You know I have always believed hydrogen
       powered vehicles are practical and cost effective. I have posted
       here, years ago,about how a home setup of a solar powered water
       hydrolyzer has been available for well over a decade.
       Many people do not know, but I learned it when I researched it,
       that most of the hydrogen production in the world is done by the
       Fossil fuel Industry in a horribly inefficent process that
       extracts the hydrogen from products of fossil fuel refining. The
       "inefficiency" claim that fossil fuelers often wail and moan
       about for the production of hydrogen from electrolysis is
       hypocritical in the extreme, when their process is even less
       efficient! They have to refine oil BEFORE they can get the
       lighter products like methane (CH4) from the cracking towers to
       the point where the process of chemically producing hydrogen gas
       can begin. It is ruinously inefficient. It is ERoEI NEGATIVE!
       Yet, the fossil fuel industry REFUSES to go for a
       NON-hydrocarbon (i.e WATER) feedstock. So it goes. :(
       Here's the deal with hydrogen. It's a pain in arse to store. It
       leaks because it is so tiny. But, that isn't the biggest problem
       with this massively high energy density gas (even though Hess's
       "Law", oh so covenient for hydrocarbons, gives it a nominal
       enthalpy value of zero -  LOL!).
       When hydrogen percolates through the metal in the container
       housing it and through the pipe metal that feeds it to the
       combustion chamber, this embrittles the daylights out of said
       metal and deteriorates it. It is an issue, but one that can be
       dealt with by replacing those parts most affected at specific
       intervals. Nuclear power plants have a hell of problem with the
       hydrogen isotope that plays embrittlement hell with all their
       machinery and pipes.
       All that said, the best way to use hydrogen as a fuel is to make
       it just before you use it. That's where a home hydrolizer comes
       in. That would threaten the bottom line of the Fossil fuel
       Industry so it ain't happenin' any time soon, at least for the
       average Joe or Jane.
       These modern hydrogen fuel CELL type vehicles are high tech.
       They are expensive. They are too expensive, as far as I am
       concerned. However, if they ever go mainstream, you can bet your
       bottom dollar that the Fossil Fuel Industry will be front and
       center in the production and marketing of these high tech
       vehicles that will need expensive routine maintenance and lots
       of government subsidy to be "affordable" for the average Joe.
       A Ford, off the shelf, engine was modified over 8 years ago to
       run on hydrogen for the Phantom Eye drone. It was no big deal.
       It was easy to do. Ford did not have to come up with some new,
       "specialized for hydrogen combustion",  engine.
       They could have done the same for cars. They just did not want
       to.
       --- Quote ---
       > The Phantom Eye was an evolution from Boeing's earlier success
       with the piston-powered Boeing Condor that set several records
       for altitude and endurance in the late 1980s. Boeing also
       studied a larger HALE UAV that can fly for over 10 days and
       carry payloads of 2,000 pounds (900 kg) or more; the company
       also worked on the Phantom Ray UAV as a flying testbed for
       advanced technologies.[5]
       >
       > Phantom Eye's propulsion system successfully completed an
       80-hour test in an altitude chamber on March 1, 2010; this
       cleared the way for the propulsion system and the airframe to be
       assembled. Boeing worked closely with Ball Aerospace, Aurora
       Flight Sciences, Ford Motor Co. and MAHLE Powertrain to develop
       the Phantom Eye.[5] The Phantom Eye was revealed to the press at
       a ceremony at Boeing's facilities in St Louis, Missouri, on July
       12, 2010.[2] The Phantom Eye demonstrator is a 60%-70% scale
       design of an objective system. According to Darryl Davis,
       president of Boeing's Phantom Works advanced concepts group, the
       Phantom Eye demonstrator could lead to an objective system
       capable of achieving 24-hour-a-day, seven-day-a-week coverage of
       an area year round with as few as four aircraft.[6]
       >
       > Propulsion
       > Each of the two propulsion systems consisted of modified Ford
       2.3 liter engines, reduction gearbox, and 4-blade propeller. The
       engines were originally designed for use with some models of the
       petrol-burning Ford Fusion car. To be able to run in the oxygen
       starved atmosphere at 65,000 ft, the engines featured a multiple
       turbocharger system that compresses that available low density
       air and reduces the radiated infrared heat signature to increase
       its stealth properties. The engines, which provided 150
       horsepower at sea level, were tuned so as to be able to run on
       hydrogen. Boeing's marketing department stated that this will
       make the aircraft economical and "green" to run, as the only
       by-product would be water.[20]
       >
       >
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Phantom_Eye
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Phantom_Eye
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I'll let you know about the H-tron and other hydrogen car
       developments (They are up to something in South Korea right now.
       They ordered several thousand hydrogen powered cars, not from
       Audi.) when I read something substantial about a production
       model.  8)
       #Post#: 10034--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: June 24, 2018, 3:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: azozeo link ---
       >
       > It appears that VW/Audi is moving forward with their charging
       stations placement here in N.A.
       >
       > That's no small undertaking. Perhaps VW will take over all the
       stations when the Musk-Mobile hits a brick wall
       > and closes it's door. I know for damn sure that the Trump
       regime won't be dole-ing out funds for a bail-out.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       We shall see. Hydrogen powered cars are still a luxury vehicle
       for the rich, as the Tesla Model S (and too many of the Model 3
       dual motor models!).
       I won't hold my breath waiting for Tesla to crater. That said,
       the onslaught to ICE car sales coming from SEVERAL BYD cheap and
       reliable EVs coming to the USA (that Warren Buffet is betting
       on) will definitely smack Tesla's bottom line too. Musk wants
       too much money for his EVs. If his profit margin is so thin that
       he cannot compete with BYD's EVs, never mind the Volt or the
       Bolt, Tesla will be absorbed by BYD or GM.
  HTML http://www.funny-emoticons.com/files/funny-animals/blue-bird-emoticons/801-listen-up!.png<br
       />You heard it first here.  ;D
       #Post#: 10084--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Renewable Hydrogen Power
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: June 27, 2018, 7:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       AUTOSJUNE 20, 2018 / 3:03 AM / 8 DAYS AGO
       [center]Hyundai teams up with VW's Audi to boost hydrogen
       cars[/center]
       Costas Pitas 3 MIN READ
       LONDON (Reuters) - Hyundai (005380.KS) agreed a deal with Audi
       (NSUG.DE) on Wednesday to collaborate on hydrogen car
       technology, hoping to boost an energy segment that has lagged
       behind battery electric vehicles.
       The South Korean firm wants to increase the uptake of hydrogen
       cars, which are propelled by electricity generated by fuel cells
       but have been held back by a lack of infrastructure and the push
       for battery electric vehicles by the likes of Tesla (TSLA.O).
       The pair will be able to access each other’s intellectual
       property and share components, including any new parts developed
       by Audi, which is responsible for hydrogen fuel cell technology
       in the Volkswagen Group (VOWG_p.DE), the world’s biggest car
       seller.
       Hyundai hopes that the move will create greater demand for
       vehicles such as its ix35 model and bring down costs to make the
       technology profitable.
       “We want to provide to our component suppliers more chance and
       we want to have competition between component suppliers,” Sae
       Hoon Kim, the head of Hyundai’s R&D fuel cell group, told
       Reuters in an interview in London.
       “We also want to make them to have competition with other
       suppliers, and that competition will bring down the cost.”
       Carmakers such as Toyota have touted the benefits of hydrogen
       vehicles, which take less time to refuel than the recharge times
       of battery electric cars, but are expensive and suffer from a
       lack of refuelling stations.
       Many carmakers are focusing on battery electric vehicles, which
       can take between half an hour and half a day to recharge, but
       are increasingly able to use a growing network of charging
       points.
       Auto firms are teaming up to share the cost of developing
       greener technologies to replace combustion engines as regulators
       around the world crack down on emissions. GM and Honda have a
       partnership to jointly develop electric vehicles with hydrogen
       fuel cells that are expected to go on sale in 2020, while BMW is
       working with Toyota.
       Kim said that a toughening of European Union carbon emission
       limits in 2025 would create a need for more hydrogen cars.
       Hyundai sold 200 such models last year and expects to sell
       thousands this year, but Kim said profitability was still far
       off.
       “100,000 or 300,000 vehicles per year per company, when that
       comes, I think we can make money,” he said.
       Reporting by Costas Pitas; Editing by Kevin Liffey
       Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
  HTML https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hyundai-audi/hyundai-teams-up-with-vws-audi-to-boost-hydrogen-cars-idUKKBN1JG0MM?il=0
       #Post#: 13914--------------------------------------------------
       Enthusiasm is building for renewable hydrogen to replace fossil
       fuels in key industrial sectors
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: October 8, 2019, 2:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185039-16521065.gif
       agelbert
       I was perusing an encyclopedia (hard copy 2006 Annual New Book
       of Knowledge) today and noticed a picture of a German submarine
       launched in September of 2004 (page 67). It says that submarine
       "gives off almost no pollutants" because it runs on HYDROGEN.
       &#128064;&#128077;
       Does anybody here know if it is still in operation? &#129300;
       It's only 15 years old.
       Did it work out&#10067;
       If it did, why hasn't this hydrogen powered engine technology
       become more common place&#10067;
       You don't build a submarine to be powered by HYDROGEN unless you
       have a pretty sound idea of how durable this power system is,
       especially if it is made by Germans.
       Frank S > agelbert
       Still working - Search Type 212 Submarine
       [center]
  HTML https://www.naval-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/09/type212_9.jpg[/center]
       [center]Type 212 Submarine
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185037-16412296.gif[/center]
       Germany just ordered 27 more hydrogen trains to go with the 2
       that are running now and France just ordered 17. 1,000 H2 trucks
       are being built for Switzerland by Hyundai. Scotland has H2 bin
       lorries.
       Oh and a hydrogen drone just set a record with a 15 hour flight.
       Why hasn't this tech become more common place? Because it is
       going to change everything. It's the most disruptive tech the
       energy sector has seen in hundreds of years. It's the end of the
       petrodollar.
       agelbert > Frank S
       &#128077; Thank you. This is encouraging.
       Associated Story:
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418200416.png<br
       />
       October 1st, 2019 by Tina Casey
       [center]Renewable Hydrogen In The Heart Of Coal Country
  HTML https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/01/renewable-hydrogen-in-the-heart-of-coal-country/[/center]
       #Post#: 14750--------------------------------------------------
       Liquid Hydrogen Jet Aircraft : A Carbon-Free Flying Future?
   DIR By: AGelbert
       Date: December 8, 2019, 5:09 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]
  HTML https://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/2/3-081219180415.png[/center]
       [center]Liquid Hydrogen Jet Aircraft : A Carbon-Free Flying
       Future?[/center]
       4,678 views•Dec 8, 2019
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/WukX4O-hraY[/center]
       Just Have a Think
       41.4K subscribers
       Liquid Hydrogen has proven a very useful energy storage solution
       in industrial applications for some time, but can it really ever
       be put to practical and economically viable use in the global
       aviation industry? This week we take a look.
       Help support and influence the growth of the Just Have a Think
       initiative here:
       www.patreon.com/justhaveathink
       View all Just Have a Think videos here :
  HTML http://www.youtube.com/c/JustHaveaThink
       
       Research links:
  HTML https://www.orcadian.co.uk/hygrogen-p...
  HTML https://www.theguardian.com/business/...
  HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-4...
  HTML https://www.ge.com/reports/hydrogen-g...
  HTML http://www.airport-world.com/news/gen...
  HTML https://careers.rolls-royce.com/profe...
  HTML https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pag...
  HTML https://careers.rolls-royce.com/profe...
  HTML https://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...
  HTML http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2019/0...
  HTML https://newatlas.com/nasa-cheeta-fund...
  HTML https://ec.europa.eu/programmes/horiz...
  HTML https://www.enableh2.eu/
  HTML https://mdx2.plm.automation.siemens
       .c...
  HTML https://www.greencarreports.com/news/...
  HTML https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/...
  HTML https://www.aef.org.uk/
  HTML https://www.theguardian.com/world/201...
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