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       #Post#: 3411--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: July 6, 2015, 6:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hat tip to Surly for this great find! [img width=25
       height=30]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png[/img]
       [quote author=Surly1 link=topic=5139.msg79954#msg79954
       date=1436198123]
       Here is another view from Thomas Piketty that seems obvious, but
       I have heard no one mention it:
       Germany hasn't paid ANYBODY.
       German copyright law is arcane with limited provisions for
       public reuse, so this is a Google , DIE ZEIT. The original
       German interview with Thomas Piketty can be found here
  HTML http://www.zeit.de/2015/26/thomas-piketty-schulden-griechenland/komplettansicht.
       [size=14pt]"Germany has never paid"
       The star economist Thomas Piketty calls for a large debt
       conference. Especially Germany must help the Greeks refuse
       INTERVIEW: Georg Blume
       TIME (DIE ZEIT)
       June 27, 2015 20:09 c
  HTML http://images.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2015-06/piketty-3/piketty-3-540x304.jpg
       Since his book Success "Capital in the 21st Century" is one of
       Frenchman Thomas Piketty of the most influential economists in
       the world. His theories on the distribution of income and wealth
       triggered last year of a global debate. In time conversation he
       now mixes also decided in the European debt debate.
       DIE ZEIT: Can we Germans are pleased that even the French
       Government currently pays tribute to the dogmas of the Berlin
       austerity?
       Thomas Piketty: Not at all. That's a reason to celebrate neither
       France nor Germany, and certainly not for Europe. Rather, I am
       afraid that the Conservatives, in particular in Germany, are on
       the verge, Europe and the European idea to destroy - and because
       of their appalling lack of historical memory.
       DIE ZEIT:: We Germans have yet worked up the story.
       Piketty: But not when it comes to German debt! The memory of it
       just for today's Germany would have to be of importance. Look at
       the history of public debt to: Great Britain, Germany and France
       have all been in the situation of Greece today, even suffered
       even higher debts. The first lesson that can therefore be drawn
       from the history of sovereign debt, is that we do not face new
       problems. There was always plenty of opportunities to pay off
       the debt. And never want only one, as Berlin and Paris looking
       to make the Greeks.
       DIE ZEIT:: But they should repay the debt after all?
       Piketty: My book tells of the history of income and assets,
       including the public. What struck me in writing: Germany really
       is the prime example of a country that has never repaid its
       government debt in history. Neither after the First nor the
       Second World War. There was another pay about after the
       Franco-German War of 1870, when it called for a high payment of
       France and they got it. For the French state was suffering then
       for decades under the debt. In fact, the history of public debt
       irony. They rarely follow our ideas of order and justice.
       DIE ZEIT:: But it can not but draw the conclusion that we can do
       no better today?
       Piketty: When I hear the Germans now say that they maintain a
       very moral dealing with debt and firmly believe that debts must
       be repaid, then I think: That's a big joke! Germany is the
       country that has never paid his debts. It can be obtained in
       other countries no lessons.
       DIE ZEIT:: Do you want to try the story in order to portray
       States who do not repay their debts as a winner?
       Piketty: Just such a state is Germany. But slowly: The story
       teaches us two options for a highly indebted country to settle
       its arrears. One has fooled the British Empire in the 19th
       century after the Napoleonic Wars expensive: It's slow method,
       which today also recommends Greece. The UK division at that DIE
       ZEIT: the debt through rigorous financial management from -
       although it worked, but took extremely long. Over 100 years the
       British relatives two to three percent of its economic output on
       the debt, spending more than they for schools and education.
       That must not be and should not be today. For the second method
       is much faster. Germany has it tried in the 20th century.
       Essentially, it consists of three components: inflation, a
       special tax on private assets and liabilities sections.
       DIE ZEIT:: And now you want to tell us that our economic miracle
       was based on debt cuts that we deny the Greeks today?
       Piketty: Exactly. The German government was in debt after the
       war ended in 1945 with more than 200 percent of its gross
       national product. Ten years later it had little choice but the
       national debt was less than 20 percent of the national product.
       France succeeded in that DIE ZEIT: a similar feat. This
       tremendously rapid debt reduction but we would never have
       reached with the budgetary resources that we recommend Greece
       today. Instead, our two countries turned to the second method,
       the three mentioned components, including debt restructuring.
       Think. To the London Debt Conference in 1953, canceled on the 60
       percent of Germany's foreign debt and also the domestic debt of
       the young Federal Republic were restructured
       DIE ZEIT:: This was from the realization that the high repayment
       demands on Germany after the First World War were among the
       reasons the Second World War. They wanted this DIE ZEIT: forgive
       the Germans for their sins!
       Piketty: Nonsense! This had nothing to do with moral insights,
       but was a rational economic decision. It was recognized at the
       DIE ZEIT: correctly: According to major crises which have a high
       debt burden result, there comes a DIE ZEIT: when you have to
       turn to the future. We can not expect to pay for decades for
       their parents' mistakes of new generations. Now the Greeks have
       undoubtedly made great mistakes. By 2009, the government in
       Athens have forged their budgets. Why not the younger generation
       of Greeks now bears more responsibility for the mistakes of
       their parents as the young generation of Germans in the 1950s
       and 1960s. We must now look forward. Europe was founded on
       forgetting the debt and investing in the future. And it is not
       on the idea of eternal penance. We need to remember.
       DIE ZEIT:: The end of World War II was a break with
       civilization. Europe was like a battlefield. That's different
       today.
       Piketty: reject the historical comparison with the post-war
       period would be wrong. Take the financial crisis of 2008/2009:
       That was not any crisis! It was the biggest financial crisis
       since 1929. So we have to do these historical comparisons. This
       also applies to the Greek national product: Between 2009 and
       2015 it fell by 25 percent. This is comparable to the recessions
       in Germany and France 1929-1935.
       DIE ZEIT:: Many German believe that the Greeks have their faults
       not seen until now and want to just go ahead with its high
       government spending.
       Piketty: If we had told you Germans in the 1950s, that you
       present your errors have not sufficiently acknowledged, you were
       still trying to repay your debts. Fortunately, we were smart.
       DIE ZEIT:: German Finance other hand, seems to believe that a
       Greek exit from the euro zone could Europe weld together even
       faster.
       Piketty: If we start to launch a country, the serious crisis of
       confidence in the euro zone is now, only larger. Financial
       markets would turn to the next country immediately. That would
       be the beginning of a long agony, in the course of which we risk
       Europe's social model, its democracy, to sacrifice even his
       civilization on the altar of a conservative, irrational debt
       policy.
       DIE ZEIT:: Do you think that we are not Germans generous enough?
       Piketty: What are you talking about? Generous? Germany earned so
       far to Greece by comparatively high interest grants loans to the
       country.
       DIE ZEIT:: What is your proposed solution to the crisis?
       Piketty: We need a conference on the total debt as Europe after
       the Second World War. A debt restructuring is unavoidable not
       only in Greece but in many European countries. We just lost the
       completely opaque negotiations with Athens six months. The idea
       of the Euro Group that Greece in the future generated a budget
       surplus of four percent, in the next 30 to 40 years to repay its
       debt is still not off the table. It is said that in 2015 will
       one percent surplus generated in 2016 then two per cent, in 2017
       three and a half percent. Totally crazy! It will never run so.
       We move the necessary debt debate on the cows come home day.
       DIE ZEIT:: And what would after the great haircut?
       Piketty: It would require a new democratic European institution,
       which decides on the permitted level of debt in order to avoid a
       resurgence of debt. This could for example be a European
       Parliament chamber, which results from the national parliaments.
       Financial decisions can not escape the parliaments. To undermine
       democracy in Europe, as Germany does today, by insisting on the
       durchgepowerten especially from Berlin Regelautomatismen in debt
       of states, is a big mistake.
       DIE ZEIT:: Your President Francois Hollande has just failed only
       with his criticism of the fiscal pact.
       Piketty: That does not help matters. If in recent years, the
       decisions in Europe would have fallen in a democratic way, there
       would be today Europe a less strict austerity.
       DIE ZEIT:: As it is doing in France with no party. National
       sovereignty is considered sacred.
       Piketty: In Germany more people do, in fact thoughts that go in
       the direction of a democratic new foundation of Europe, as in
       France, with its numerous Sovereignty believers. In addition,
       our president still makes a prisoner of the failed EU
       Constitution referendum in France in 2005. François Hollande
       does not understand that a lot has changed by the financial
       crisis. National self-interest, we need to overcome.
       DIE ZEIT:: What national egoism shows in Germany is at work?
       Piketty: I think Germany today is very marked by the
       reunification. They had a long DIE ZEIT: afraid of being left
       behind by economic them. But then the union succeeded very well,
       thanks to a functioning social model intact and industrial
       structures. Meanwhile, however, the country is so proud of this
       achievement that it granted all the other countries lessons.
       This is a bit infantile. Of course I understand the importance
       of the successful reunification was about the personal history
       of Chancellor Angela Merkel. But now Germany has to rethink.
       Otherwise, his attitude towards the debt about a great danger
       for Europe.
       DIE ZEIT:: What do you advise the Chancellor?
       Piketty: Those who want to expel Greece from the Euro-Zone today
       will end up in the dustbin of history. If the Chancellor wants
       to secure its place in history, like succeeded Kohl with the
       unification, it must be now successfully used for an agreement
       in the Greece issue - including a debt conference, which we then
       start over at zero. But then with a new, much stricter budgetary
       discipline than before.[/size]
       [/quote]
       #Post#: 3412--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: July 6, 2015, 7:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Surly1 link=topic=559.msg79989#msg79989
       date=1436225965]
       Thanks, AG. I get an increasingly bewildering number of things
       that hit my inbox every day.
       Some of them bear fruit.
       Right now this is the only place i know of you can read it in
       English.
       Doubtless not for long, though.
       [/quote]
       Surly,
       You are quite welcome. It would be interesting to see how the
       NAZI sympathizers at places like Rense.com, who are continually
       trying to blame the Allies for creating the conditions that
       created Hitler ("onerous" reparations after WWI), would react to
       the hard truths your posted article points out.
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/swear1.gif
       They wouldn't like it.
       ;D  The continual efforts to make a saint out of Hitler and the
       German people of that time disgusts me. They are no better than
       the racist  defenders of the stars and bars. In the USA, it is
       no coincidence that the same people are often both Holocaust
       deniers and confederate Flag defenders.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183337.bmp
       #Post#: 3585--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 9, 2015, 5:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Golden Oxen link=topic=133.msg82575#msg82575
       date=1439125613]
       [quote]Quote from: agelbert on August 08, 2015, 01:24:02 PM
       DEFLATION is a misnomer in a fiat currency environment. What
       part of that do you not understand? [/quote]
       Catching up on my reading this morning AG, and just had to
       compliment you on your excellent financial postings of late.
       The capital gains insight was top notch material as well that
       did not go unnoticed.
       While I realize your favored focus is on other matters, your
       insights on financial matters, appearing more often, would be
       most appreciated as well.
       [/quote]
       GO,
       Thank you.
       As to the comments from Palloy on PV and RE on the "population"
       problem or the "low energy " of Renewable energy systems
       allegedly making it "IMPOSSIBLE" to transition to 100% Renewable
       Energy without killing the economy, their arguments are more
       ideological than logical. It's a waste of time to argue with
       them.  8)
       For your info, the EROI fixation Palloy and others have in
       regard to doing the math on Energy is flawed. LCOE is what I
       referred to that really describes energy efficiencies from
       cradle to grave.
       Since you are up on financial and accounting terms, here's a
       very brief summary of what is involved in formulating LCOE from
       an excellent article.
       SNIPPET 1:
       Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) Defined
       LCOE is used to compare the relative cost of energy produced by
       different energy-generating sources, regardless of the project’s
       scale or operating time frame. As Thomas Holt and his co-authors
       define it in A Manual for the Economic Evaluation of Energy
       Efficiency and Renewable Energy Technologies (see Resources),
       LCOE is determined by dividing the project’s total cost of
       operation by the energy generated. The total cost of operation
       should include all costs that the project incurs—including
       construction and operation— and may incorporate any salvage or
       residual value at the end of the project’s lifetime. Incentives
       for project construction and energy generation can also be
       incorporated.
       LCOE = Total Life Cycle Cost / Total Lifetime Energy Production
       (1)
       As presented in Equation 1, LCOE is a metric that describes the
       cost of every unit of energy generated by a project in $/kWh (or
       ¢/kWh or $/MWh).
       As will be shown directly, this basic definition of the LCOE can
       be expressed mathematically in more complex ways to account for
       all of the variables that impact the life cycle cost and total
       energy production for a PV system.
       SNIPPET 2:
       LCOE Uses
       LCOE is most commonly used for evaluating the cost of energy
       delivered by projects utilizing different generating
       technologies. Specifically, it is used to rank options and
       determine the most cost-effective energy source. LCOE may also
       be used to compare the cost of energy from new sources to the
       cost of energy from existing sources. In this context, it is
       useful to policy makers deciding how future energy needs will be
       met and which technologies to support, and to utilities and
       project developers selecting technologies. It should be noted
       that energy-efficiency projects may also be evaluated using the
       metric.
       Because it captures total operating costs, LCOE enables
       comparisons between significantly different technologies, but it
       may also be used to compare the cost of energy from variations
       of the same technology.
       SNIPPET 3:
       Key Financial Concepts
       While it is beyond the scope of this article to thoroughly
       explain the financial theory behind the LCOE equation, there are
       two key concepts that you need to understand.
       Cash flow. For the purposes of the LCOE calculation, the cash
       flow is a table showing the amount of money either spent or
       received each year over the life of the project. The values
       included in the cash flow vary depending on how the project is
       financed and whether you are considering tax credits or
       incentives.
       In a simple example, the Year 0 value for a PV project cash flow
       would include the capital cost of installing the system and any
       up-front investment or capacity-based incentives. All tax
       credits, tax savings and performance-based incentives would
       begin to be recognized in Year 1. For most subsequent years, the
       only costs in the cash flow would be relatively small O&M
       expenditures. The likely exception to this would be the year
       when the inverter needs to be repaired or replaced. In some
       scenarios, the value of the equipment or material is included in
       the cash flow at the end of the project lifetime.
       If the value of money was static over time, then the total life
       cycle cost of the project would be determined by simply summing
       each value in the cash flow. However, a dollar today is worth
       more than a dollar tomorrow, which leads us to the concept of
       present value.
       Present value. In the context of this discussion, we want to
       determine how much each annual value in our project cash flow is
       worth in today’s dollars. To figure this out, we need to
       multiply each value by some factor less than 1. This factor is
       called the discount factor and can be represented by the
       following equation:
       Discount Factor = 1 / (1+d)
       where d is the rate of return that could be expected from
       equivalent investment alternatives. The discount factor can be
       difficult to define and varies from project to project and over
       time.
       A present value calculation allows you to account for the timing
       of expenditures or revenue and puts a higher value on costs and
       income that occur near the beginning of a project. This is
       important when comparing technologies because they often have
       different long-term cost profiles. Renewable technologies often
       require a large up-front investment and incur little cost over
       the project lifetime, whereas traditional sources of energy
       often have a lower up-front cost but require continuing
       significant investment in fuel costs.
  HTML http://solarprofessional.com/articles/finance-economics/levelized-cost-of-energy?v=disable_pagination
  HTML http://solarprofessional.com/articles/finance-economics/levelized-cost-of-energy?v=disable_pagination
       I have been unable to get these CFS OBVIOUS advantages of
       Renewable Energy past the ideological lense that Palloy AND RE
       refuse to stop seeing through. So, I don't bother to try any
       more.
       ALL the arguments presented in this forum against the
       feasibility of a rapid 100% (or more) transition to Renewable
       Energy do not hold water. Even the IMF, no friend of Renewable
       Energy, AGREES with me.  :icon_mrgreen:
       The IMF just destroyed the main argument against clean energy
       May 25, 2015
  HTML http://www.energypost.eu/imf-just-destroyed-main-argument-clean-energy/
  HTML http://www.energypost.eu/imf-just-destroyed-main-argument-clean-energy/
       But they aren't the only ones.
       [quote] his new book “Clean Disruption of Energy and
       Transportation”, famous author, lecturer and Silicon Valley
       entrepreneur Tony Seba predicts that by 2030 all power
       generation will be solar and wind and all cars will be
       self-driving electric vehicles. The existing energy industry
       will be “obliterated”.  ;D In a review of the book, José
       Cordeiro, founding energy advisor at Singularity University and
       Visiting Research Fellow at the Institute of Developing
       Economies ( IDE-JETRO) in Japan, concedes that this sounds
       unlikely, but calculates that it is very well possible.
       [/quote]
  HTML http://www.energypost.eu/clean-disruption-silicon-valley-will-make-oil-nuclear-gas-coal-obsolete-book-review/
  HTML http://www.energypost.eu/clean-disruption-silicon-valley-will-make-oil-nuclear-gas-coal-obsolete-book-review/
       But don't try to convince RE or Monsta or Nicole or Ilargi or
       Palloy et al. They are not listening. Soon they will be forced
       to face reality. But until then, they will continue to claim I
       am the one not facing it.  ;D
       At any rate, if you want to have some fun with Nicole Foss or
       Ilargi, ask them what the present value of a deflating currency
       is...  ;D
  HTML http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php?topic=559.msg82616#msg82616
       #Post#: 3609--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 13, 2015, 7:37 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Eddie link=topic=559.msg82908#msg82908
       date=1439507039]
       Let me take this opportunity to congratulate you both. You're
       very dedicated, each of you, and worthy of a great deal of
       praise. I mean that sincerely. Please don't think that, because
       I'm a curmudgeon, that I don't appreciate all you do for this
       site and for the concerned people in the world.
       [/quote]
       Thank you. It's the passion thing.  8)  I am frequently so fed
       up and frustrated about the way things are that I try to quit.
       Surly usually gives me a lesson in reality and kicks my ass
       around so I get back in the saddle, but I must admit it gets
       really old seeing so much POLLUTING POISON coming down on us and
       so few people willing to realize that we are NOT going to change
       anything for the better if we get all maudlin about
       defending/justifying all the wrong moves made by Homo Saps to
       get to where we are.
       If I could synthesize the main argument I have with the
       Predators 'R' US  crowd, it's that the homeostatic range of ALL
       life forms, even if many have radically different ranges than
       ours, DICTATES that there IS such a thing as TOO MUCH of a
       substance that we need to LIVE. This is LIFE REALITY. But the
       Wall Streeters do not understand that concept. MKing does not
       understand that concept either. Most Libertarians do not
       understand that concept either.
       TOO MUCH PECUNIARY PROFIT is deadly for human society. Never
       mind that it leads to tyranny and oligarchy. That's the LEAST of
       our concerns.
       The problem is that it is incredibly difficult to maintain our
       level of civilization and not degrade the biosphere. When
       addressed as a social challenge, one that everyone must pay for
       equally, it makes it into that 'homeostatic' area as a metaphor
       to life processes. In that case, everybody tries to keep their
       polluting down to a dull (i.e. sustainable) roar, so to speak.
       But when a few ass holes running a multibillion dollar fossil
       fuel industry get MORE MONEY if they POLLUTE MORE through wars,
       extraction, processing and sale of fossil fuels, they leave
       behind the 'homeostatic' zone and charge into the extinction
       trajectory. They become a metaphor for a cancerous tumor. The
       more billionaires out there DOING what they DO, the more tumors.
       It's easy to convince people that having too little money is
       bad. It's damned near impossible to convince them that having
       too much money is bad. But it is. That is the lesson and the
       warning that homeostasis SCREAMS at us from nature.
       Most people don't get it. For example, they look at a graph with
       the X axis equal to time and the Y axis equal to income. They do
       not understand that, in living beings, that graph has a
       HOMEOSTATIC ZONE. If you depart from that zone below OR ABOVE,
       you will harm yourself and those around you (humans AND the rest
       of the biosphere).
       INCOME, when you do the biosphere math, is a certain RANGE of
       nutrients along with shelter, security, etc. (see Maslow).
       Everybody looks at that graph and says there is no such thing as
       too much "money". Well, your body NEVER gets ANY money; It gets
       NUTRIENTS. What happens when you eat 72 ounce steaks, drink 10
       milk shakes and other sugar "goodies" every day? Well, THAT is
       what is happening to our society!
       Yeah, I know. Good luck trying to convince anybody of that.  :(
       
       Nevertheless, at least for now, I will continue, as Knarf, RE
       and Surly (and others from time to time) do to, not just
       document our misery, but propose ways to avoid extinction.  ;)
  HTML http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php?topic=559.new#new
       #Post#: 3651--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 24, 2015, 5:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What to Expect From the Fed's Jackson Hole Meeting
       Mohamed A. El-Erian Aug 24, 2015 2:00 AM EDT
       SNIPPET 1:
       [quote]
       Although the official focus this year will be "Inflation
       Dynamics and Monetary Policy,"   [img width=160
       height=095]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-241013183046.jpeg[/img]<br
       />the event organized by the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City
       also should be an opportunity to discuss the challenges facing
       the global economy, including the slowdown in the emerging world
       and the threat it presents to social well-being and financial
       stability.
  HTML http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-scared002.gif
       ;D
       [/quote]
       Agelbert NOTE: We KNOW who's social well-being and financial
       stability the Fed lackeys for Oligarchy are concerned with,
       don't we?    [img width=40
       height=40]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-280515145049.png[/img]<br
       />  [img width=40
       height=40]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png[/img]<br
       />
       IOW, if your net worth is not well over a one million dollars,
       your "social well-being and financial stability" does not merit
       disussion among attending luminaries of world finance.
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/acigar.gif
       
       [I]SNIPPET 2:[/i]
       [quote]As things stand, the next scheduled assembly of global
       economic officials won’t take place until the annual meetings of
       the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in the first
       half of October in Peru.
       By then, one of two outcomes will have been established: Either
       loosely coordinated national policy responses will have
       succeeded in restoring calm to markets and in buying more time
       for the global economy to get back on a growth path, or more
       intense market volatility will have fueled greater concern about
       adverse consequences around the world, accentuating the dangers
       of a vicious cycle of economic contraction and financial
       instability.
  HTML http://s15.rimg.inf
       o/dcda0e08e538cb37431314e6bd49279b.gif
       Investors
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/165fs373950.gif
       may
       hope for the first outcome. But, absent any changes in policy
       actions and prospects, they would be well advised to plan for
       the second.
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif
       
       [/quote]
  HTML http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-24/el-erian-fed-jackson-hole-china-markets
       #Post#: 3658--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 25, 2015, 9:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The Crash of 2016 may have started.  :o
  HTML https://youtu.be/039Zh9KBCqY
       Published on Dec 5, 2013
       Looking at American history, Hartmann, host of The Big Picture,
       sees that roughly every four generations, catastrophe strikes.
       To avert the next economic and social disaster, he urges us to
       reject the destabilizing profit motives of corporations, and
       embrace the ideals of democratic civil values that once defined
       the nation.
       Founded by Carla Cohen and Barbara Meade in 1984, Politics &
       Prose Bookstore is Washington, D.C.'s premier independent
       bookstore and cultural hub, a gathering place for people
       interested in reading and discussing books. Politics & Prose
       offers superior service, unusual book choices, and a haven for
       book lovers in the store and online. Visit them on the web at
  HTML http://www.politics-prose.com/
       #Post#: 3676--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 29, 2015, 6:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Golden Oxen link=topic=261.msg84110#msg84110
       date=1440881790]
       [quote]Sure. Also applies if you go back since BEFORE we went
       off gold.[/quote]
       No it doesn't MKing, you are unaware of monetary history.
       Why would they go off it and disparage it if it wasn't in their
       way?
       Your idea that the dim always use that the inflation is all
       relative and can be kept up with is fallacious and fools talk as
       well.
       Your one of  those people that applies your experience and
       ability to cope to everyone else.
       Go to a seniors center in your area and instead of ****ing about
       your gout and bragging about your wonderful genes talk to some
       folks petrified of how to get through the month on and 800
       dollar Social Security check and their 10,000 in savings with no
       interest on it. Good folks that worked all their life and
       trusted their government and it's currency.
       You are clueless about the misery inflation inflicts upon
       millions of our citizens; that goes for you to Eddie with your
       callous insensitive remark about the price of hamburg. Be
       thankful you can dick some poor bastard out of a couple of
       hundred bucks because of a toothache; you may not always be that
       fortunate. Inflation is government stealing from the poor and
       the elderly as well as the trusting citizens of our country.
       Praise the heavens you have the ability to manage it.
       [img width=640
       height=380]
  HTML http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AP090812064526_crop-640x360.jpg[/img]
       We’re proud to collaborate with The Nation in sharing insightful
       journalism related to income inequality in America. The
       following is an excerpt from Nation contributor Greg Kaufmann’s
       “This Week in Poverty” column.
       
  HTML http://billmoyers.com/2013/06/22/the-older-americans-act-and-u-s-seniors/
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       /> [img width=75
       height=50]
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       [/quote]
       [center]  [img width=125
       height=130]
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       Apparently MKing, who accurately states that causality is
       important to scientists  ;), neglects to recognize the effects
       of inflation, DELIBERATELY ENGINEERED EFFECTS for BANKER SWAG,
       that CAUSE people on fixed incomes, like the older segment of
       the population, to lose buying power to the point of having to
       make choices between food and medications.
       And that is just one of "coping strategies" that we-the-people
       at the wrong end of the economic inflation mechanism have to
       deal with.  :(
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       Inflation is analogous to a less sophisticated form of HFT (high
       frequency trading). Like the HFT, market gaming, parasitical
       mechanism designed to continuously take (steal) a tiny
       percentage off the top, the ONLY reason fiat currencies are
       created is for the express purpose of extracting a "first in
       line" percentage of buying power off the top BEFORE the masses
       have, NOT DRIVEN PRICES UP, but been FORCED to pay higher prices
       because the value of an item reflects the increased fiat money
       supply.
       MKing sees everything in terms of supply and demand. That's
       incorrect in regard to fiat currencies. There is no "increase"
       in demand to raise the price of goods and services. There is
       simply a leveling effect from the increased money supply. It's
       an insidious effect, tantamount to wealth transfer (theft) form
       the masses to the elite pigs.
       So, the banker elites make a PROFIT off the inflation engineered
       LOSS/MISERY of the rest of the populace.
       This BLATENT cause and effect relationship of inflation seems to
       go right over MKing's "causality is important to us scientists"
       head.
       I really wonder what part of INFLATION IS A WEALTH TRANSFER
       MECHANISM FROM THE MASSES TO THE BANKER ELITE  that MKing does
       not understand.
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       />
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       Anyone that claims this is about supply and demand, see below:
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       #Post#: 3678--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 30, 2015, 4:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=MKing link=topic=261.msg84134#msg84134
       date=1440893553]
       [quote author=agelbert link=topic=261.msg84125#msg84125
       date=1440890061]
       Apparently MKing, who accurately states that causality is
       important to scientists  ;), neglects to recognize the effects
       of inflation, DELIBERATELY ENGINEERED EFFECTS for BANKER SWAG,
       that CAUSE people on fixed incomes, like the older segment of
       the population, to lose buying power to the point of having to
       make choices between food and medications. [/quote]
       There is a difference between inflation, and poverty. If the
       fixed income was high enough, there would be no problem.
       Therefore, what you are describing isn't a inflation problem. It
       is an income problem. To solve it is easy, double social
       security payments. Nothing to do with banksters.b  ;D
       [quote author=agelbert]
       And that is just one of "coping strategies" that we-the-people
       at the wrong end of the economic inflation mechanism have to
       deal with.  :(
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp[/quote]
       You talk as though you have never seen the consequences of
       poverty before?  In the world I grew up in there was no income,
       let alone someone guaranteeing a fixed one. God that would have
       been great. As it was, medicine was home recipes and food was
       something you better go shoot or grow, if you wanted to eat.
       This fixed income gig sounds pretty good, I think everyone
       should get one!
       [quote author=agelbert]
       So, the banker elites make a PROFIT off the inflation engineered
       LOSS/MISERY of the rest of the populace.
       This BLATENT cause and effect relationship of inflation seems to
       go right over MKing's "causality is important to us scientists"
       head. [/quote]
       Because you saying it doesn't make it so. Causality does matter.
       There are all SORTS of reasons that inflation happens, and all
       SORTS of effects. And sure, banksters have been trying to
       engineer a cut since banks and sters were invented. But
       inflation isn't the only thing they want a cut of, they want a
       cut of everything. You should see their percentage for setting
       up M&A financing. And there is no loss/misery except….in YOUR
       example…WHEN POVERTY GETS INVOLVED. And when I say POVERTY, I
       only mean "not enough money for folks to buy whatever they want
       or need" and this…THIS covers a lot more than what the
       government might consider POVERTY.
       All it takes is a new drug and $100G month to get it and
       presto…Anthony is enraged that inflation did it!
       Please.
       [/quote]
       MKing, you are using your scattergun approach again.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmpOf<br
       />course there is a world of a difference between abject poverty
       and coping strategy choices from geezers on pensions like yours
       truly. That goes without saying.
       Social Security being doubled would just barely bring up the
       buying power of a pensioner on Social Security to the level they
       had 40 years ago. My point is that inflation EMBEZZLED/STOLE
       that buying power from them.
       Of course there are a lot of scams going on out there to fleece
       we-the-people beyond inflation by the elite, be they bankers,
       stock brokers, fossil fuel industry price shock fun and games,
       Health Insurance Horsesh it and medical professional price
       gouging, etc.
       But inflation is the big enchilada. It takes a bite out of
       EVERYTHING. It's the CAUSALITY of causalities, as far as buying
       power erosion.
       I hear ya on poverty. I never directly experienced it but I saw
       pictures of how people lived in Puerto Rico in the 1930's in the
       countryside.
       In the cities, it was nice houses, cars, running water and
       electricity. In the countryside, none of the above. The wooden
       (not concrete like they have now) houses had thatched roofs (i.e
       STRAW). The people mostly walked barefoot. Only city folk had
       shoes. Bilharzia disease was rampant. TB too.
       Only socialist government policies changed all that. The elite,
       of which many fu cks in my family belong to, just did not give a
       sh it. The elite never give a sh it, no matter where they live
       and what their color is. But that is another sore subject.  ;)
       A cousin of mine is an Industrial Engineer (Georgia Tech
       graduate). He worked for a pharmaceutical corporation. He told
       me all about how much it costs to do what in those factories.
       MKing, regardless of the fact that the money spent on research
       is often lost (and needs to be recovered through successful drug
       sales) because many research projects are a dead end, the
       pharmaceutical corporations are involved in world class price
       gouging, FAR and above covering the research costs base.
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       There is NO EXCUSE for the ROUTINE 2,000 to up to 40,000% mark
       up on cost on pharmaceutical drugs, PERIOD!
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       #Post#: 3679--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 30, 2015, 5:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Agelbert NOTE: Eddie is a Dentist from Texas.
       [quote author=Golden Oxen link=topic=261.msg84174#msg84174
       date=1440967052]
       [quote author=Eddie link=topic=261.msg84172#msg84172
       date=1440960549]
       that goes for you too Eddie with your callous insensitive remark
       about the price of hamburg. Be thankful you can dick some poor
       bastard out of a couple of hundred bucks because of a toothache;
       you may not always be that fortunate. Inflation is government
       stealing from the poor and the elderly as well as the trusting
       citizens of our country. Praise the heavens you have the ability
       to manage it.
       As usual, you miss my point. I mentioned food because we all
       know food costs are rising quickly . I wasn't being callous, I
       was trying to understand what's happening with the money.
       Considering inflation vs. deflation in assets, ask yourself what
       happens when food costs eat up a bigger and bigger piece of John
       Q. Public's income?
       Answer: He spends less and less on anything else, including
       asset purchases of any kind. So when it comes to assets, higher
       food prices would seem to me be to actually be deflationary, and
       not inflationary.
       This is not something that is generally understood, but it makes
       sense to me when I look at what's going on. Rising prices are
       only half the equation for inflation. Without more money in the
       form of wages to spend into the economy, food prices can go to
       the moon, and we'll still be in a depression.
       [/quote]
       This is the same fallacious and absurd point that another
       brought up in the first Foss interview of late. The idea that
       rising prices and taxes are deflationary, not inflationary.
       I would like to know of one instance when the price of something
       rising does not as an absolute fact mean less money is available
       for something else. It is self evident, but to call rising
       prices deflationary is the mark of someone so inept and
       incapable of sound thinking and comprehension that they cannot
       be reasoned with.
       You and another here live in a world where rising prices are
       deflationary and therefore by the same twisted, contorted,
       imbecilic logic, falling prices are inflationary since they give
       us more money to spend on other items. It's really amazing that
       you would voice such buffoonery in public and be serious on top
       of it.
       Your thinking is backwards Eddie much as the backward reverse
       thinking Diner mentor you no doubt pick up this insanity from.
       As soon, and not until, you find the time to think clearly and
       learn the difference between inflation and deflation; Alasdair
       would be an excellent teacher, if you can find the time to
       listen, I will be happy to continue the conversation with you in
       financial matters.
       
       Regards, GO
       
       [/quote]
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       height=130]
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       #Post#: 3680--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Money
       By: AGelbert Date: August 30, 2015, 6:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Eddie link=topic=261.msg84190#msg84190
       date=1440973957]
       (From the inflation article you referenced.)
       This seems to me to be the salient sentence in the Mises
       Institute article:
       When the Federal Reserve Banks bought the government's 2½%
       bonds, say, at par, they held down the basic long-term interest
       rate to 2 percent. And they paid for these bonds, in effect, by
       printing more money. This is what is known as "monetizing" the
       public debt. Inflation goes on as long as this goes on.
       If almost all the money the Fed created went into the the
       current equity market bubble, which is badly leaking now and apt
       to burst, taking the major stock indexes back to some point as
       far below the mean as they are above it now, then all the phony
       money the Fed created goes up in smoke. That, my expert friend,
       is most assuredly NOT inflation.
       I think right there is where the traditional understanding of
       inflation fails to explain our current circumstances.
       [/quote]
       [quote author=Eddie link=topic=261.msg84183#msg84183
       date=1440972736]
       I am listening to Alisdair now. I hear him talking about the Fed
       having to helicopter money, which is something I mentioned
       earlier in this thread last week, and which you stated
       unequivocally would not occur.
       Your suggestion that my fallacious thinking is the result of
       someone or another's mentoring here or elsewhere is wrong.
       Fallacious or not, it's based on my own critical thinking
       skills, and it's an attempt to put the big picture together by
       engaging in an open discussion of what we see happening in the
       real world.
       I notice that any time I might say something that questions your
       world view, you react in a personal way, impugning my mental
       faculties, which I don't appreciate. You're much better at that
       than you are at making real arguments, which is what I'd much
       rather engage in, in a thread like this one.
       I don't argue that the ultimate end game of currency debasement
       is a recipe for a fast economic collapse and a hyperinflation.
       But as Alisdair himself says in this interview you posted, we
       are not nearly there yet. Selfishly, what I want to understand
       is a roadmap for how to negotiate the near term future.
       The currency wars are rewarding savers of USD cash money at the
       moment, in a very big way, for those with the means to exploit
       the arbitrage opportunities to exchange some of their fiat for
       real goods and for gold, too.
       We are also experiencing real and easily measurable deflation at
       the moment, by nearly any reasonable metric. Commodities say we
       have had steady deflation for five years. The velocity of money
       is dropping faster than it did between 1929 and 1932. Welcome to
       Reality Check 101.[/quote]
       Eddie,
       So how come the average Joe used to be able to take a two week
       to one month vacation each year and own a car and house too, but
       NOW they can't while YOU still can?
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       Maybe you want to attribute it to your education and business
       smarts. I am not trying to impugn your intelligence or ability,
       but I am, right there with GO, claiming you are engaging in self
       serving rationalizing.  ;)
       When I was a kid, doctors and dentists MOSTLY lived a middle
       class existence. Something has gone very wrong since then. That
       "something" involves, to a high degree, inflation caused buying
       power erosion of people on wages or pensions.
       But there is more to that society destroying inequality
       calculation. That is the FACT that professionals who own their
       businesses are exceeding in their buying power, not just
       published inflation, but actual inflation. They became much
       wealthier, as a group, than professionals with the SAME level of
       education and intelligence as peers on wages in a hospital or
       prison or military service setting.
       Health care has become more of a business than a vocation. That
       is wrong, Eddie. There is no socially valid reason for a doctor
       or a dentist be remunerated any better than they were when most
       of them were middle class in the 1950's.
       *****************************************************
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